Black Lives Matter plan to 'completely dismantle' society

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Then they should have kept BLM in the US and not exported it abroad.

in america the playing field is more level [due to our notoriously stingy social welfare] if one is working-class, no matter the color. we all just pofolk struggling to keep a roof over our heads. but poor whites here tend to not be able to see that they could team up with the rest and simply outnumber the higher classes, like what MLK tried to do ["Poor People's Campaign"] before the PTB eliminated him.

I am really quite ignorant regarding racial issues in the UK, so I really wouldn't know how to react to that statement. I am vaguely aware that England exploited Welsh workers to extract coal to amass the industrial might they needed to build the British Empire, and I suspect (although I don't have a citation for it) that one consequence was poisoning of the water supply in some places. I don't dismiss the seriousness of such complaints but I don't see what it has to do with BLM. But again, I can only speak in detail about BLM in the US, I honestly don't know what has happened in the UK but I can't deny there may have been some sort of injustice associated with it (or it's quit possible some politicians are whipping up resentment to bolster their own careers).

BLM often fail to realise the touchy regional tensions in the countries they gain a foothold in.

Broadly speaking. In my area, thousands of white kids and men where treated horrifically for a long period time. There was an uprising in the 1800s and a school got steam rolled by a man made landslide of coal waste in the 1960s. Only the last 50 years have been relatively free the collateral of the mines.


A lot people in the old world were hardly spared from authoritarian brutality for being white. They also never had any privilege.

It's more of an American city thing but for some reason has spread to the UK. Political point scoring? I imagine so.

Nope
USA Today

This seems quite plausible. It assumes that BLM outside the US is mostly the creation of Americans acting from abroad. I had always assumed it was locals who were inspired by what they'd heard of events in the US but applying it to the facts on the ground in their own areas. But I would have no way to know for certain.


So I take some issue with putting it this way. Their whiteness had absolutely zero to do with what happened to them. The fact they weren't English had a lot to do with it. However, their whiteness is most likely being leveraged as a way for politicians to drive a wedge between them and folks in urban areas, to encourage resentment that those politicians can then use to win elections.


White privilege is most definitely a thing in the US, again I can't claim to know much about life in a small post-industrial town in Wales, although I can certainly see how people there aren't going to feel privileged.

I'm beginning to think that misunderstanding the differences between life in the US and life anywhere in Europe could have dire consequences for the West in general. Go back 150 years or so and life for the average person in Europe was just plain miserable, then many places suffered grievously during the wars of the 20th Century. It's possible the formation of the EU has put a thinner veneer than we might imagine over all that. OTOH there are parts of Europe that are doing quite well despite high unemployment etc.

The American point of view on that is vastly different from yours and we all need to understand that.

PS there are a fair number of people in the US, of all races AFAIK who report they can't get as much to eat as they would want every week. I don't have numbers but you can Google it and draw your own conclusions. How prevalent is this sort of hunger in the UK? Serious question.

The data I could find comes from 2017 so it might have changed since then https://ourworldindata.org/hunger-and-u ... d-insecure
USA - 9.2%
UK - 5.6%
of people moderately or severily food insecure;
USA - 1.0%
UK - 1.8%
of people severily food insecure.
That translates to:
UK has greater share of people who can't afford to have enough food.
USA has greater share of people who can't afford to eat healthily.

Are you going to pass a law preventing minority groups from organizing?

Are you also going to tell me that racism is not a problem in the UK? The National Front, for example, is not a racist group? The Windrush scandal was had nothing to do with race? Sorry, but the UK has a long ugly history of racism.

Yes, there are other social drivers than race. In the UK, class or socioeconomic income is a driver, just as it is in the US. The irony is that there is a political affinity between the poor and rich. The rich have been able to convince the poor to vote and act against their own interests. Being poor sucks, being poor and black sucks more. But if the establishment can get poor whites fighting poor blacks, then they yet again win.

But maybe the rich are right: people that go to Eton should be ruling the world. The divine right of kings. I mean they have done such a great job up to now.

Yep.

EDIT: These numbers might reflect the impression I've gotten that food is generally more dear in Europe than in the US. Quite possibly because farmers in Europe get bigger subsidies than in the US, in an effort to preserve their way of life. But another way to potentially drive a wedge between "city mice" and "country mice".

This is what I was referring to, perhaps not quite the same thing:

Who Does Not Have Enough to Eat in America?

I think it's related but the surveys use different metrics so you can't simply compare the numbers.

USA is a powerful economy but I'm under an impression that poverty there is deeper than it's here.

I'd love to see the post-covid statistics.

In Europe, food production is more regulated, which makes some food found too unhealthy or too unethical (including workers' rights issues) illegal. Thus, higher prices on the lowest shelf.

When I was in UK in 2003, I was under an impression that everything there was either horribly expensive or completely free, with green peas being an exception - they were actually cheap.

You would be right. Inequality is simply on the rise. The poverty in some states in the US is just shocking to see.

The slogan for Mississippi, the poorest state, is “Come here and feel better about your own state”.

Yup.They usually keep my state off the bottom of the list.

The issue is a metropolitan elite thinking the entire UK is some homogenous social group like a giant version of London. This isn't the case at all. London and other big UK cities VS the rest the UK is like chalk and cheese. Issues in London (or assumed issues) are likely not found in the the North of England for example. Racism being an obvious example.




Their whiteness didn't have anything to do with it at all but neither did their national identity. North England had it just as bad as Wales. The white elite didn't discriminate on skin colour. White, black, child, woman, blue smurf or even animal. If they wanted to abuse you they would.




They don't feel privileged and are not privileged here. The prospects of a white working class person in an industrial town are poorer than that of a black person in a poor part of a large city. The job prospects are considerably less, there is less money overall to go around and they appear to have considerably less in the way of benefits money. I'll use an example but perhaps a crass example. Grenfell tower in London was incinerated in a fire a few years ago. Many of those housed in that tower were poor minorities (use the word poor lightly) and it started off a huge debate on class and race in the UK as to how poor people had to put up with terrible housing conditions. The average price of a Grenfell tower flat?...............about 300k in my eyes. The "renovation" work that ended up destroying the tower was about 70k per flat and that was for an obviously terrible, shoddy job.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/w11-1tg.html

These figures spent outside of London on the poor, particularly in predominantly white working class areas are unheard of and frankly viewed as obscene. White people here will rip someone's arm off to live in a poor quality London flat.



I wouldn't say dire consequences but patience is wearing thin here. Lets face it, it doesn't matter what someone's skin colour is, if they live in poverty they don't want to hear endless woe is me from a group of people who likely have it better. They especially don't want to be called racists in addition.

The differences between the UK and US regarding race and equality is vastly different not just by country but also by region.

I think everyone does OK food wise here too. The poorest areas seem to also be the fattest ironically.

They can protest but need to be aware they're not welcome to do it where I live.

National front just isn't really a large party. I've never seen any members of National Front or anyone advocating on their behalf. The Windrush scandal was as more of a legal disaster. Race wasn't the only issue with it and might not have been an issue at all. They were told to come to the UK with very poor identity documents and as the many decades that went by the laws that allowed them to come over where changed beyond all recognition and they indirectly got stuck in the middle of it. It was more to do with terrible and inept implementation of newer legislation over the years.

I don't really understand what point you're making about the rest too.