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Brictoria
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02 Nov 2021, 10:29 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Yeah, I'm honestly surprised the prosecution introduced that video, if anything it bolsters the case for the defense, unless they really are trying to throw the case because the whole thing is political and they never wanted to bring it in the first case. I heard there was some weirdness involving the possible existence of an HD version of the tape but that the FBI was being evasive about it, just something I heard and haven't followed up on, but potentially interesting.

Well, technically the prosecution only advertised the existance of it, making claims regarding what it showed - it was the defence who introduced it during their opening.

It possibly didn't help the prosecution in their opening, after stating that Mr Rosenbaum was shot in the back, then clarifying that the shot was the 4th of 4, fired in less than a second, and only hit him in the back because he was diving\falling forward, not that it was an aimed\intentional shot (or that Mr Rosenbaum deliberately turned his back\was retreating when the shot was fired) as they had initially implied\ people have tried to claim.



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02 Nov 2021, 10:54 pm

Hmm, I wonder if the person I have the bet with wants to go double or nothing...


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02 Nov 2021, 10:56 pm

Interesting background information.
In August 2020, Rittenhouse and other white men answered a call to action by a former Kenosha city alderman for the formation of a militia to “take up arms” to defend Kenosha “from the evil thugs”. During the evening of the shooting, the presence of this militia was supported by local police officers who offered them water and affirmations, saying, “We appreciate you guys, we really do.”

According to the militia member Ryan Balch, a police officer told him that officers would be pushing protesters back towards the armed men, claiming that police believed the militia would “deal with” the protesters. After Rittenhouse shot the three men, witnesses shouted for his arrest but nearby officers appeared to let him disappear into the night and return to his home state of Illinois.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tims-judge

After Rittenhouse, next on trial should be the former alderman who instigated dangerous vigilantes and the police for contributing to the deaths.



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02 Nov 2021, 11:32 pm

there is no use arguing with folk who think he is a hero.



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03 Nov 2021, 12:53 am

It's interesting he's being charged twice with *First-degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon*, a 12.5 year penalty + 5 years for use with a gun.

Once for shooting in the line of McGinnis.
Once for shooting at the person who tried to kick him.

That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.

The judge told the jury that if even if they find Rittenhouse acted in self-defense with Rosenbaum, that doesn't mean he didn't endanger the safety of McGinnis when he fired his rifle at Rosenbaum.

So, this trial is not just about self-defense.


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Brictoria
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03 Nov 2021, 2:37 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
It's interesting he's being charged twice with *First-degree recklessly endangering safety, use of a dangerous weapon*, a 12.5 year penalty + 5 years for use with a gun.

Once for shooting in the line of McGinnis.
Once for shooting at the person who tried to kick him.

That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.

The judge told the jury that if even if they find Rittenhouse acted in self-defense with Rosenbaum, that doesn't mean he didn't endanger the safety of McGinnis when he fired his rifle at Rosenbaum.

So, this trial is not just about self-defense.


Congratulations on catching up with what has been known to anyone who read the charging documentation when it was released over 12 months ago, or who has been studying\researching the case since it began.

The 2 charges do come down to "self defence", however, in that the first (involving Mr McGinnis) will relate to\impact on what "precautions" a person needs to take while trying to defend themselves (do you need to make sure no-one else could be injured (other than the assailant) prior to defending yourself, for example), and the second is similar, and again related to "self defence", relating to the proportionality of the actions taken to defend oneself.

Simply put: What responsibility do you have to show towards other's lives (innocent, or assailants) when attempting to defend your own life - Or, put cynically (as I have seen some have done elsewhere): Should you be more concerned about the lives of others when attempting to defend yourself rather than your own?



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03 Nov 2021, 3:07 am

auntblabby wrote:
there is no use arguing with folk who think he is a hero.


Show me the post where anyone here calls him a hero; I'll wait. You, however, clearly made up your mind early before any of the evidence was in, and have stuck to it regardless of said evidence ever since in what sure looks like pure tribalism. There's a word for that.


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03 Nov 2021, 3:16 am

Brictoria wrote:
Simply put: What responsibility do you have to show towards other's lives (innocent, or assailants) when attempting to defend your own life - Or, put cynically (as I have seen some have done elsewhere): Should you be more concerned about the lives of others when attempting to defend yourself rather than your own?

The judge's jury instructions were "did he have utter disregard for McGinnis's life".

Well, it seems so, as you seem to point out, he only cared about defending his own life.


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03 Nov 2021, 3:50 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.


It's funny but the margin of error for Rittenhouse to be spending the rest of his life in jail is razor sharp. Can't quite understand the apparent confidence in his presumption of innocence?



cyberdad
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03 Nov 2021, 3:53 am

Dox47 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there is no use arguing with folk who think he is a hero.


Show me the post where anyone here calls him a hero; I'll wait. You, however, clearly made up your mind early before any of the evidence was in, and have stuck to it regardless of said evidence ever since in what sure looks like pure tribalism. There's a word for that.


Cherry picking what you consider important doesn't mean you can simply cancel others who don't quite follow your angle.
There's a mountain of evidence from Trump to his MAGA nutjob followers to the QAnon cult and the NRA that people on that side of the political spectrum do see Rittenhouse as a "poster boy" for their beliefs. Pretending they don't doesn't make it so.



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03 Nov 2021, 11:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.


It's funny but the margin of error for Rittenhouse to be spending the rest of his life in jail is razor sharp. Can't quite understand the apparent confidence in his presumption of innocence?

I think he's clearly guilty of at least some charges ...

1. He will obviously be convicted of the curfew violation, and weapon possession by a minor charges.

2. I feel he should be convicted of shooting at the kicker, as kicking is not a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm.

Wisconsin law defines *great bodily harm* as one which causes a substantial risk of death.

3. I feel he should be convicted of shooting at McGinnis, based on the court instructions, since it appears like he didn't care where his bullets went. So he did have *utter disregard* for hitting McGinnis, who was in Rittenhouse's line of fire.

4. I feel like firing four shots at Rosenbaum is at least reckless homicide, as it was established Rosenbaum was falling to the ground before the final (kill) shot. So, clearly, he was not a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm when the final (kill) shot was fired. (The prosecutor stated in court that medical examiner determined the 4th shot is the one that killed Rosenbaum).


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03 Nov 2021, 1:38 pm

Mia Cathell The Post Millennial November 2, 2021 5:09 PM wrote:
During the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse on Tuesday, video was entered into evidence that showed the shooting for which the young man is on trial from an aerial angle. The video had not yet before been seen.
The video was obtained by Jack Posobiec of Human Events Daily prior to its presentation into evidence.
Image

The new video was presented into evidence on Tuesday by the defense, with descriptions given prior to the showing of the video to give jurors a sense of what was happening in the video. Still photographs showed Rittenhouse, as well as the men who were shot, and reporters who were on the scene.
The video was shot via an FBI plane during the riot in August 2020 when Rittenhouse shot three men, killing two and injuring a third.
Tuesday's footage compliments a previous video published in September 2020 by an organization that was raising funds for Rittenhouse's legal defense. Free speech group #FightBack Foundation posted the separate 11-minute video, detailing the order of events on that fateful night in Kenosha.
The video from last year showed how tensions rose as Black Lives Matter rioters set a dumpster ablaze, moving it towards a gas station.
A militia guard quickly extinguished the flames, angering the alleged fire-starter, 36-year-old Joseph Don Rosenbaum, who was allegedly shot dead by Rittenhouse.
Rosenbaum reportedly retaliated, focusing his attention on a guard in a green t-shirt dressed similarly to Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum was also allegedly seen starting more fires down the street on the night in question. Rittenhouse was simultaneously spotted running with a fire extinguisher.
According to the 2020 tape, Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse. A single gun shot was fired by a rioter, identified as Alexander Blaine, a 44-year-old Sin City Disciples gang member and amateur porn actor. A muzzle flash of Blaine's hand gun was visible before Rittenhouse was pinned between parked cars.
The sequence showed reporter Richard McGinniss filming the foot pursuit on his cell phone, following close behind. Directly in front of Rittenhouse, a mob armed with bats formed a barricade. Rittenhouse's back was to the initial shot.
The clip with the same angle was transposed onto Tuesday's footage at the 1:46 second mark, visible in the lower right-hand corner.


Source



cyberdad
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03 Nov 2021, 4:18 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.


It's funny but the margin of error for Rittenhouse to be spending the rest of his life in jail is razor sharp. Can't quite understand the apparent confidence in his presumption of innocence?

I think he's clearly guilty of at least some charges ...

1. He will obviously be convicted of the curfew violation, and weapon possession by a minor charges.

2. I feel he should be convicted of shooting at the kicker, as kicking is not a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm.

Wisconsin law defines *great bodily harm* as one which causes a substantial risk of death.

3. I feel he should be convicted of shooting at McGinnis, based on the court instructions, since it appears like he didn't care where his bullets went. So he did have *utter disregard* for hitting McGinnis, who was in Rittenhouse's line of fire.

4. I feel like firing four shots at Rosenbaum is at least reckless homicide, as it was established Rosenbaum was falling to the ground before the final (kill) shot. So, clearly, he was not a threat of imminent death or great bodily harm when the final (kill) shot was fired. (The prosecutor stated in court that medical examiner determined the 4th shot is the one that killed Rosenbaum).


He must be guaranteed of number 1,

The defence are throwing their effort into convincing the jury that due to his "tender age" that he panicked and can't be held responsible for his actions. That his victims were looters and criminals that hunted him like a pack of wolves.

There are also further legal cases from the families of the deceased.

I think he'll be seeing the inside of a jail, for how long is the question.



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03 Nov 2021, 6:26 pm

Kyle Rittenhouse's fatal shots came 2.5 seconds after another man fired a gun in the air, videos show

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A series of videos played in Kyle Rittenhouse's criminal trial on Wednesday show that a different person fired a gunshot in the air seconds before the teenager fatally shot Joseph Rosenbaum in Kenosha, Wisconsin, last August.

That initial shot was fired by Joshua Ziminski, Kenosha Police Det. Martin Howard testified. About 2.5 seconds later, Rittenhouse, 17 at the time, shot an unarmed Rosenbaum four times in a parking lot, killing him, Howard said. Another three shots then rang out, the videos show, but Howard said investigators still do not know who fired those.

Ziminski, 36, has separately been charged with disorderly conduct using a dangerous weapon, arson and obstructing an officer, and he has pleaded not guilty, court records show. A criminal complaint says he admitted to firing a "warning shot" in the air that night.

Prosecutors played about 10 videos in court Wednesday that, taken together, showed what happened before, during and after Rittenhouse killed two men and wounded another in Kenosha. Rittenhouse, now 18, has pleaded not guilty to seven charges, including first-degree intentional homicide, first-degree reckless homicide and first-degree attempted intentional homicide.

The videos, some of which were graphic, came from different angles and from a variety of witnesses at the scene.

The first batch of videos showed the first shooting in which Rosenbaum chased Rittenhouse and threw a bag at him. A gunshot then went off, and Rittenhouse then shot Rosenbaum four times. Prosecutors showed graphic video of Rosenbaum lying on the ground with a head wound as people tried to provide medical aid.

While the video was playing in the courtroom, Rittenhouse's head was pointed downward, not watching the video.

Prosecutors then played different videos of people who pointed out Rittenhouse as he ran from the shooting scene and yelled that he had just shot a man. A crowd started to chase Rittenhouse, who fell and then fired four more rounds, the videos show.

In one video, taken earlier in the night by Daily Caller editor Richie McGinniss, Rittenhouse said he was out on the streets serving as a medic and that the other armed individuals were there to protect him.

"Our job is to protect this business and part of my job is to also help people," Rittenhouse said. "If there's somebody hurt, I'm running into harm's way. That's why I have my rifle, because I need to protect myself obviously. I also have my med kit."

Koerri Washington, who live-streamed the unrest in Kenosha last August, testified at the start of Wednesday as prosecutors played a video he took on the night of the shootings. He testified that Rosenbaum had been acting "erratic" and Rittenhouse was chain smoking and appeared nervous that night.

Det. Howard testified that he examined Rittenhouse when he turned himself in the day after the shootings.

Howard noted that Rittenhouse had a half-inch scratch above his left eyebrow, a small cut on the inside of his lower lip, a 2-inch scratch below his left collarbone, some redness to the right side of his belly button, a 2-inch scratch on his left forearm, redness on his right forearm, redness at the tip of his right thumb, a scratch on his back near his left shoulder blade and two bumps on the back of his head.

Dominick Black, a 20-year-old friend who was dating Rittenhouse's sister, testified Tuesday as the first witness in the trial and said he had previously purchased an AR-15 firearm for Rittenhouse in what prosecutors called a "straw purchase."
Rittenhouse was too young to purchase and possess a gun, but he gave Black funds to buy the firearm, Black testified.

On August 25, 2020, Black and Rittenhouse each took a weapon and ammo and went to downtown Kenosha to try to protect a car dealership called Car Source, where about six or seven other armed people had gathered. Black climbed atop the roof of the dealership that night because he felt being on the ground was too dangerous, he testified.

Black has been charged with two counts of intentionally giving a dangerous weapon to a person under the age of 18 causing death, according to court records. He has pleaded not guilty. He testified Tuesday that he hoped taking the stand would lead to leniency in his case.


Kyle Rittenhouse Judge Pauses Trial to Rant Against Media
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The judge presiding over the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial in Wisconsin slammed media coverage of the highly-divisive case on Wednesday. “There are people on the media, on reputable sites, that are saying things that are totally bizarre,” Kenosha County Circuit Court Judge Bruce Schroeder said in a sprawling rant after sending the jurors out of the room. The diatribe came amid discussions on whether to play a video of the unrest in the city last summer to jurors in which the narrator continually referrers to Rittenhouse and others around him as “militia members.

Schroeder insisted to the prosecution and defense that over the last few weeks, he has heard a lot of chatter about the case and reports about how he “messed up” the 2008 murder trial of a man accused of poisoning his wife with antifreeze and smothering her. “Actually, I had it 100% correct in the first place,” Schroeder said, despite the state Supreme Court ruling he had improperly allowed evidence in that tria


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Brictoria
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03 Nov 2021, 6:58 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
That's 35 years maximum just for shooting his rifle near others.


It's funny but the margin of error for Rittenhouse to be spending the rest of his life in jail is razor sharp. Can't quite understand the apparent confidence in his presumption of innocence?

I think he's clearly guilty of at least some charges ...

1. He will obviously be convicted of the curfew violation
<SNIP>


Thank you for that - anyone who could make (or agree with) a statement such as that shows that they do not have much (if any) grasp of what is occurring with regards to this case, and so their analysis is of minimal value...

Given you have been provided with a list of the charges he faces (which are the only things he can be convicted on) on at least 3 occasions (and they are published and explained\described in many media publications), yet still assert he will be "obviously" convicted on something for which he is not charged (and so unable to be tried for, nor convicted on), leads to the question as to whether the comment was made through ignorance of the subject, or intent to misinform others.

To help you out once more - here is an overview with simple explanations of the charges he faces (and for which he could be convicted): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/us/kyle-rittenhouse-charges.html

And here is the actual criminal complaint outlining the charges and reason for them being placed (anyone following the case would have been aware of the content of this): https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7047765-Kyle-Rittenhouse-Criminal-Complaint.html

Of course, there is the possibility that I (and anyone else - media included - following the case) missed the charging of (and bringing to trial) a charge related to breaching curfew, so would appreciate you providing the details of the charge...



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03 Nov 2021, 7:04 pm

Dominick Black, a 20-year-old friend who was dating Rittenhouse's sister, testified Tuesday as the first witness in the trial and said he had previously purchased an AR-15 firearm for Rittenhouse in what prosecutors called a "straw purchase."
Rittenhouse was too young to purchase and possess a gun, but he gave Black funds to buy the firearm, Black testified.

On August 25, 2020, Black and Rittenhouse each took a weapon and ammo and went to downtown Kenosha to try to protect a car dealership called Car Source, where about six or seven other armed people had gathered. Black climbed atop the roof of the dealership that night because he felt being on the ground was too dangerous, he testified.

Black has been charged with two counts of intentionally giving a dangerous weapon to a person under the age of 18 causing death, according to court records. He has pleaded not guilty. He testified Tuesday that he hoped taking the stand would lead to leniency in his case.


So this suggests armed vigilantism isn't legal in Wisconsin. Kind of funny that those on the right cheering for Rittenhouse carefully sidestep these little "nuggets" like dog droppings on the sidewalk.