Cerebral Palsy + DNR order = one pissed off Strapples

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TheZ
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27 Dec 2007, 8:46 pm

Strapples wrote:

mmaestro wrote:

Strapples wrote:

then if it is progressing then it is NOT cerebral palsy... CEREBRAL PALSY IS A STATIC BRAIN DISORDER THAT DOES NOT CHANGE OR PROGRESS...

What did I ever do without Wikipedia? OK, I did a quick skim over CP stuff, and yes, you're right. But, secondary symptoms caused by muscles not being exercised, incorrect bone formation, etc. do occur, and those can progress. Speculating here, but as the article mentions that she's more susceptible to infection, barely able to move, has to be fed through a tube into her stomach (and being unable to ambulate yourself or feed yourself is a risk factor in having a significantly decreased life expectancy), it may simply be the case that complications make her life expectancy only another year or two. I don't know, I'm not her doctor - but neither are you.

well thank you very much... now your trying to say my life expectancy is going to be significantly lower because i cant move much for myself. and i soon will have to have a feeding tube... and soon wont be able to move at all in a matter of a few years... my girlfriend had the same thing as this girl... shes lived to be 16 and still living strong and healthy with major assistance. i am extremely suceptible to infection too, in fact i usually get more than 4 upper respiratory infections per year. and im still alive... incorrect bone formation can be corrected through proper orthoses... i believe these parents do not know all the arrays of therapies and treatments available for CP

He was just stating statistics, did you know 9 months after major power outages there are more births?

TheZ
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27 Dec 2007, 8:50 pm

Strapples wrote:

hyperbolic wrote:

I am generally in favor of people deciding to put a Do Not Resuscitate order on themselves. This case is different because the girl was a minor and her parents, not her, made the decision to put a DNR order on her.

While I may not have all the facts in the case, if the girl's condition had progressed to a point where a) she was more debilitated than ever before and b) no longer conscious of reality, the girl's parents may well have acted in the best interests of the girl. They are her parents, who gave birth to her, and under those circumstances, they would be best qualified to make that decision.

However, if the girl had simply gone unconscious and there was a high chance that she could have been resuscitated and thereafter returned to her prior state for the most part, and back to consciousness, a decision not to resuscitate would have, in my opinion, been a major error. If you had a broken arm and your parents didn't like your suffering from that broken arm, and you somehow fell unconscious, and they pulled the plug, so to speak, just so that you would not suffer from that broken arm anymore, that is what it would have been like. If it is the case that this is what happened, to put it simply, a disabled person went unconscious for a while, and they were allowed to die, for no good reason. CP is just one of a number of disabilities. Yes, it is debilitating, but there are many people living to their fullest with CP.

Your comparing yourself to someone else. Her condition sounds as if its much more serious then yours.

agreed... a DNR on yourself initiated by yourself is perfectly ok... but placing a DNR on a minor and also without receiving any input from that minor is not acceptable...

and this type of DNR is saying that for a simple possible cardiac arrest where a defibbrilator could bring back to normal state prohibits use of a defibbrilator is completely unacceptable... i know vast numbers of people who live a full life even though they have a medical condition, and i am one of them... i dont have no big yellow DNR form on the back of my wheelchair, and nor is a DNR going to ever become one of the accessories on my powerchair...

TheZ
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27 Dec 2007, 8:56 pm

Strapples wrote:

Gamester wrote:

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

If she has the cognizance to decide for herself - she should have the right of autonomy, the choice should be hers, no one elses.

there are occasions when parents do need to decide when to stop life resuscitating interventions - so - in my mind it is not a yes and no answer - for this reason I can't vote in your poll.

i respect your abstainence from the voting procedures...

it is unknown if she has severe cognitive problems, although just knowing from the news record it does not seem like that due to the fact that cerebral palsy its self does not cause cognitive problems...

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

however my decision still stands as no DNR at this point... with what limited data we have there does not appear to be any terminal sub condition along with the cerebral palsy... cerebral palsy its self is not a terminal condition although we do not know if she has some sort of acquired sub disorder along with the cerebral palsy... even then i wouldnt have this kind of DNR on her since it prevents basic medical intervention (CPR/Defibbrilator) i could see a DNR like the kind i have on myself that if my CRS (coma recovery scale) score is very low and i am in a coma for more than 6 months to do a full analysis and if results come that it is not likely i will come out of the coma to pull the plug... my DNR is a more sensible one...

i have this girl in my google news alerts so if any more news comes in i will make sure to post an alert here...

Your projecting your situation on it again.

Strapples
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27 Dec 2007, 9:13 pm

TheZ wrote:

Strapples wrote:

Gamester wrote:

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

Your projecting your situation on it again.

you dont see how old that response is do you...

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TheZ
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28 Dec 2007, 2:56 pm

Strapples wrote:

TheZ wrote:

Strapples wrote:

Gamester wrote:

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

Your projecting your situation on it again.

you dont see how old that response is do you...

It doesent change that it appears that is what you are doing.

Strapples
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28 Dec 2007, 2:57 pm

TheZ wrote:

Strapples wrote:

TheZ wrote:

Strapples wrote:

Gamester wrote:

Strapples wrote:

lucy1 wrote:

The one thing I actually wanted to know, which the article didn't seem to state, if it did and I didn't remember, was how hard hitting the cerebal palsy plus other issues was.

Your projecting your situation on it again.

you dont see how old that response is do you...

It doesent change that it appears that is what you are doing.

please cease responding to this thread TheZ... this type of response has been seen from you already once... i think you have done this same response 2 times in this thread before and it is starting to get irritating...

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TheZ
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28 Dec 2007, 7:35 pm

So I'm not allowed to state my oppinion and you are?

Strapples
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28 Dec 2007, 7:36 pm

TheZ wrote:

So I'm not allowed to state my oppinion and you are?

no you are repeatedly saying the SAME SENTENCE OVER AND OVER... at least my statment dynamically changes...

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TheZ
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28 Dec 2007, 7:43 pm

If you wanna attack me for stating what I appear is happening - go ahead if it makes you feel better.

Strapples
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28 Dec 2007, 7:46 pm

TheZ wrote:

If you wanna attack me for stating what I appear is happening - go ahead if it makes you feel better.

i am not trying to attack you however should you continue to annoy me by repeating "your projecting your own situation blah blah blah" every 3 days i will request you be removed from this thread

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TheZ
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28 Dec 2007, 7:51 pm

Strapples wrote:

TheZ wrote:

If you wanna attack me for stating what I appear is happening - go ahead if it makes you feel better.

i am not trying to attack you however should you continue to annoy me by repeating "your projecting your own situation blah blah blah" every 3 days i will request you be removed from this thread

No, what your doing is trying to silence the oppinions of those who disagree with you by threatening them. A moderator or admin can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe I am in violation of any rules whatsoever.

And as far as the every 3 days things I kindly request you quit lying. My first post in this thread was less then 24 hours ago.

Strapples
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28 Dec 2007, 7:55 pm

Rjaye wrote:

Strapples wrote:

*laughing hysterically*

respond to medical condition.... recover... yeah... right!! ! check my website please, i have a neurological disease that is very rapidly progressive...

at some point my case is going to look exactly like this... if not worse. but i do NOT want a DNR strapped to the back of my wheelchair for ANY reason... i find that a DNR is not a useful thing when someone is this young. you dont know what the future holds for this case...

*points to signature*

Well, then, you proved my point. You're projecting. And you're inconsistent.

Unfortunately, because you haven't had much experience in life at your age, you're painting people as uncaring because you haven't the experience to judge this situation. Of course, you'll disagree, because you're a teenager and need a chill pill. You're old enough to choose for yourself. And guess what, sweetie...

I know far better than you know. I worked in hospitals for over a decade, then went on to advocate for crip rights, and worked for a while in hospice care settings, I cared for both dying infants and adults.

I've seen far more than people should see from all parts of society. Oh, yeah, I used to work the morgue. So while you may have a unique view, your only experience is YOU. No-one else. Your experience does not represent anyone else's.

Bless your heart anyway. That little lack of theory of mind will resolve the older you get. So will being a teenager.

Metta, Rjaye

sorry TheZ i thought Rjaye's thing saying "your projecting" was yours... didnt mean to attack you for any reason...

and no i am not trying to silence people

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JanetFAP
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28 Jun 2009, 12:17 pm

DivaD wrote:

grrr... parents that stupid should be served with a Do Not Reproduce order :evil:

Some years ago, maybe in the 80s, a baby in my home town was born with down's syndrome . The parents and physician in this small town (as if it wouldn't leak) not only did not resusitate, but made the decision to not give any care so he could die of 'natural causes.'

Of course people found out and someone [unlike the parent] with a soul adopted the baby. Hopefully it all turned out well. I wonder if the parents ever saw the baby growing into a fine young man realized how awfully they had behaved?

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Strapples
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28 Jun 2009, 12:20 pm

DNR and no care!?!?! Absurd.

Also I would also like to say that this is an old thread and I heard in the newspaper that the DNR on the girl has been overturned by the Illinois courts.

Please do not start heated discussion in this thread, I am not afraid to request lockage.

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sartresue
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28 Jun 2009, 2:37 pm

In the heat of the moment topic

I remember this is one of the first threads I found when i first joined WP. i was impressed at the passion and empathy of young people who cared enough to post their opinions.

I remember when that young girl named Tracy, many years ago, was euthanized by her father because of "pain" due to CP. Her father spent at least 10 years in prison for manslaughter. Some people herald him as a hero, and some as a murderer. I still have no idea why he did not relinquish his parental responsibilities if he truly thought he could not bear to see Tracy "suffer".

The above is one story which we still continue to find closure. :roll:

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28 Jun 2009, 2:44 pm

Poor little girl should have gotten better parents. They should "fix" hers so they can't have anymore kids. I hope the courts get involed and if I was her teacher I would have quit over being expected to watch while this sweet child dies.

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