What are the odds of this being another William Freund?

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Danlo, do shut up, and stop throwing insults at Ante. He has a right to suggest that people here could have done more to make WillFreund feel welcome in our community. This I agree with, and I am as guilty as anyone here for not doing this.

However, I disagree with Ante about Asperger's being a mental illness, and I do think we should stop blaming individual members. The person who banned Will from the chatroom does have some explanation to make though, and I would like to see that explanation......

Phoenix, I'll talk to you later on MSN (How do you fold a crane, anyways?

The rest, all contacts with the media are to go through alex, ok?

Ok, I'll try for a shorter, different approach...

I'm a huge fan of Lloyd Alexander's Prydain Chronicles; they are my Bible, only written as fantasy for children. In The Black Cauldon, Morgant is a good king who then betrays the High King by joining in league with the enemy, while Ellidyr is a cocky, arrogant prince pays with his life to thwart evil. The following quote is made by Gwydion, son of the High King and a honourable, wise man, in response to questioning the appropriateness of honouring the death of Morgant as well as the death of Ellidyr who was, to the last, a haughty, arrogant liar:

“It is easy to judge evil unmixed, but alas, in most of us good and bad are closely woven as the threads of a loom; greater wisdom than mine is needed for the judging… And so shall I honour Morgant for what he used to be, and Ellidyr Prince of Pen-Llarcau for what he became.”

Any questions?

Last edited by PhoenixKitten on 31 Oct 2005, 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

No worries Liger...

For those who are interested...

http://www.thecraneproject.org/thesadakostory.html - The story of Sadako

http://www.sadako.org/How%20to%20Fold%2 ... 0Crane.htm - Good crane folding instructions

Whilst cranes are traditionally a symbol of long-life, hope, good luck, happiness and peace, I think they would be appropriate for this too...

brilliant post, as usual Kitten! you've expressed everything I am thinking/feeling about this far better than I ever could. *winks back at kitten* mary was aspie....

Please, please take note of what was said above. If you'd really like to do something that could help all of us, then keep track of where this story goes and make sure the media does not give society a stereotype of autism that would be quite damaging to present and future autistics. Autism and violence are not connected period.

If you see any reports that try to connect the two you should write to the editor of the article as this is discrimination. We should let others know that we are not vicious people waiting for a chance to go into a rampage at any moment. There are people that do good things and those that do bad things in this world - there are also autistics that do good things and bad things. It is not autism that cause them to be predisposed to such random violent actions, though.

We do have a knack for being blunt and straight to the point which make us appear to be aggressive, but from what I have seen of autistic friends and family, we are not violent people. I agree that we are more apt to be victims rather than predators.

Please understand that I am very concerned with how the media depicts autism as our very lives may depend on how we are seen. If someone commits a violent act and it is stated that the person is autistic as the reason, it could be the beginning of a fear of autistics.

If we are considered a people that are prone to violence then we cannot be trusted to our own devices. Perhaps it will be decided that we must then be contained, locked up, drugged or watched for the rest of our lives. Perhaps it might be considered to eliminate autistics altogether. Is this an extreme thought? I think not. Sad but true, many of us have already had to deal with this in our own lifetime.

Autism is a neurological difference and not connected whatsoever to random acts of violence. News reporters should refrain from using the fact that a person is Autistic as it is not relevant to the report of violence any more than it would be relevant if he were gay, African American or Muslim.

From what he wrote on here (I did a search), didn't he indicate he was seeing a doctor?

Last edited by Noetic on 31 Oct 2005, 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

I've read all the posts put here so far. All I can say is that this is just beyond sadness to me.

Monastic, I agree with you there. I recall a conversation with a centrelink (social security) officer, talking about getting papers for a disability pension: she suggested I might need a transport allowance too, because 'people with Aspergers can be violent and that's a problem on public transport'!

I do however think that we need to recognised Autism as one of many inadvertant causes for violence. It is not the Autism itself, but rather the isolation, lonliness, misunderstanding, confusion, discrimination and subsequent depression that frequently accompany Autism that may exacerbate violent tendancies (not create them, but if an individual is prone to violence, these circumstances may increase it). I know that I am capable of violent outbursts during a meltdown, and these, whilst my own responsibility, come from the sheer frustration of being confused and misunderstood.

Unfortunately, I very much doubt that the media will see this as an opportunity to promote understanding of Autism, despite the fact that much of the lonliness and frustration of being misunderstood could be resolved if NT's learnt how to communicate with us...

Its that sort of view that makes Aspies feel crap and like they have to kill themselves. That because they are different, its something WRONG with them. You talk to me about MY attitude? I'm the one trying to tell you its not something wrong with you. Asperger's is not a mental illness/disorder under the Mental Health Act 1983, for your uninformed information. Do try to research your material before you spout your crap.
Also, its not just his opinion that AS is a mental illness, which is why he should be banned. But because he felt fit to take information and posts from off this website, and send it to officials. Just who does he think he is? With people like him around, how can ANYONE feel safe posting their opinions, their problems, when he can't respect CONFIDENTIALITY and PRIVACY? I believe we have a right to privacy and confidentiality when we participate on this website.


What insults? I made a comment about the biasness of his views, and how it harms people with autism. Point out to me exactly where I've insulted him.

Yes, not guilty at all! Noone on here has any reason to be feeling guilty. Saying its our fault is basically blaming us because we're autistic! So we can't accept people unconditionally. Does that mean its our fault he went and murdered people? Of course not, and any view supporting that is utterly preposterous. You say you accept your blame, but why are you unable to realize that Will Freund must accept his own responsibility and blame for his actions? In the end, it is and always will be his decision alone.

EDIT: Might I also add, that the views of Ante is basically the same thing that he is accusing us of doing unintentionally to Will. Trying to induce guilt in people who don't deserve it, may be detrimental to many people who visit WrongPlanet. Guilt may very well lead to depression in people afflicted by that illness. Exactly how is his view conducive to a good society/atmosphere on WrongPlanet? It ISN'T. And while he is entitled to his own view, he is certainly NOT entitled to harm others because of his view.

Last edited by danlo on 31 Oct 2005, 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

will everyone stop blameing each other, God, chill...

STOP IT. Its not constructive.

No, Duncvis, it is an important issue. We are entitled to confidentiality and privacy. That another member saw fit to take matters into their own hands, and obviously a lot of people tried to do just that, does not inspire faith in this website.
A lot of members have expressed their desire/intentions to breach privacy and confidentiality, because they are feeling guilty over Will Freund. They are willing to do what they feel they must to assuage their guilt, even if it includes breaching that. But suspicions, and that's all you can have when you don't know the people in question, are not a basis for doing this.

Last edited by danlo on 31 Oct 2005, 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have read every thing in here, and I think that this is a time when we should come more together, and not be more apart from eachother. This whole thing makes me even more sad then I am now about it. I talked to WillFreund in a private message, he even talked to me in a private message under decided. I told Willfreund to go get help, and I believed him. In one of Willfreunds post he did mention that he did need that brake from the stress, but he could not find a good hospital. That is what I have understood through the whole thing. All he was doing was in his little own way he was asking for help. I have understood willfreund only because I have been there my ownself. That is all I can say, this thing makes me want to cry.

For what its worth, I don't like the idea of the media being concated. Insisting that he is banned and squabbling (not just pointing a finger at you Danlo) is not helpful. Again I am requesting that the slanging match stops here now that everyone has said their peace.

Yes, fine, I've no problems with that. Regarding the privacy issue, I can't remember, is there a privacy statement new members must agree to when joining? Something like that needs to be implemented for this website. Its not impossible to police, but the threat of legal action against people who breach such a privacy statement would hopefully be enough to deter such actions, no matter their good intentions.