god bless you... what do you mean i'm fired?

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Macbeth
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12 Feb 2009, 8:39 pm

sartresue wrote:
For whom the church bell tolls...topic

I just reread the story of nurse Carol Petrie and her reinstatement at her hospital job.

Presumably she has been warned about not mentioning religious affiliation at work from now on, and to refrain from acting upon it, or else she could be terminated. Fair enough. Rules are rules.

This should also apply to all religions at non-denominational health care facilities.

Case closed. :)


Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


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12 Feb 2009, 8:41 pm

Macbeth wrote:
sartresue wrote:
For whom the church bell tolls...topic

I just reread the story of nurse Carol Petrie and her reinstatement at her hospital job.

Presumably she has been warned about not mentioning religious affiliation at work from now on, and to refrain from acting upon it, or else she could be terminated. Fair enough. Rules are rules.

This should also apply to all religions at non-denominational health care facilities.

Case closed. :)


Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


Not literal enough, that's why. Not empirical enough. Not Aspie enough.



Macbeth
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12 Feb 2009, 8:55 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
sartresue wrote:
For whom the church bell tolls...topic

I just reread the story of nurse Carol Petrie and her reinstatement at her hospital job.

Presumably she has been warned about not mentioning religious affiliation at work from now on, and to refrain from acting upon it, or else she could be terminated. Fair enough. Rules are rules.

This should also apply to all religions at non-denominational health care facilities.

Case closed. :)


Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


Not literal enough, that's why. Not empirical enough. Not Aspie enough.


I can comprehend the desire to control extreme religious views where they might compromise someone's safety. That would be common sense. I can understand the idea that caring for the patient is paramount, and neglecting the physical for the spiritual would compromise someone's safety. But I do not understand why something as innocuous as offering a prayer is considered to be so dangerous. It simply isn't.


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slowmutant
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12 Feb 2009, 9:16 pm

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But I do not understand why something as innocuous as offering a prayer is considered to be so dangerous. It simply isn't.


I agree with you 100%



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13 Feb 2009, 12:57 am

slowmutant wrote:
Not Aspie enough.


we have a meeting of the minds on this one, Slowmutant.

Merle


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slowmutant
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13 Feb 2009, 10:36 am

sinsboldly wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Not Aspie enough.


we have a meeting of the minds on this one, Slowmutant.

Merle


Isn't it nice when that happens?



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13 Feb 2009, 10:49 am

slowmutant wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Not Aspie enough.


we have a meeting of the minds on this one, Slowmutant.

Merle


Isn't it nice when that happens?


and so rare, too

Merle


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Xelebes
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13 Feb 2009, 11:13 am

Macbeth wrote:
sartresue wrote:
For whom the church bell tolls...topic

I just reread the story of nurse Carol Petrie and her reinstatement at her hospital job.

Presumably she has been warned about not mentioning religious affiliation at work from now on, and to refrain from acting upon it, or else she could be terminated. Fair enough. Rules are rules.

This should also apply to all religions at non-denominational health care facilities.

Case closed. :)


Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


Because not everyone believes in Christianity. What about Islam being practiced before you? Would you feel discomfortable? Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising? That's the key question. You may have a hardline muslim as a patient. You may have a hardline Christian being treated by a Muslim. You may have a hardline atheist being treated by a theist. The potential for ire is so great in this situation that the job may be put on the back boiler.


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slowmutant
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13 Feb 2009, 11:46 am

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Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising?


It's been established that the nurse was NOT proselytizing.



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13 Feb 2009, 12:15 pm

slowmutant wrote:
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Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising?


It's been established that the nurse was NOT proselytizing.


I'm using the word in a distorted sesne, as iff one is rather miffed at what the nurse is doing. Not the legal sense.


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13 Feb 2009, 3:40 pm

Xelebes wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising?


It's been established that the nurse was NOT proselytizing.


I'm using the word in a distorted sesne, as iff one is rather miffed at what the nurse is doing. Not the legal sense.


Why?



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13 Feb 2009, 7:48 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


Religion is not on the menu topic

In Canada, some hospitals have a religious component. There are chapels for prayer, and even a chaplin, though on call. You can even bring in your own clergy person to pray for you.
You ask permission before you do this, and find a quiet place to offer spiritual care. I did this for a lady once in hospice because her room mate did not want "death's angel" in the room.

I do respect the environment I am in. I would not proclaim my atheism or antitheism in a house of worship. And if I am in a neutral environment, I will not try to convert people to my way of thinking, religion, or lack of one. I would not want some Hindu, Muslim, Wiccan or other belief practitioner to preach to me either. No thanks. Respect the other's rights.

For a long time in the Western world Christianity was a dominant religion. Now it is one among many. There is nothing wrong with Christianity. I was raised in it. I have assisted people who want to know more about it, if they so choose. Most people respect the other person's boundaries, and this is all anyone can ask. This is also a basic tenet of Christianity, one Jesus Christ himself would recognize.


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13 Feb 2009, 10:20 pm

Xelebes wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
sartresue wrote:
For whom the church bell tolls...topic

I just reread the story of nurse Carol Petrie and her reinstatement at her hospital job.

Presumably she has been warned about not mentioning religious affiliation at work from now on, and to refrain from acting upon it, or else she could be terminated. Fair enough. Rules are rules.

This should also apply to all religions at non-denominational health care facilities.

Case closed. :)


Why though? Why is Christianity so unpalatable? It has been acceptable enough for a long time in the UK. Why now has it become verboten? Why is any religion so unpalatable?


Because not everyone believes in Christianity. What about Islam being practiced before you? Would you feel discomfortable? Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising? That's the key question. You may have a hardline muslim as a patient. You may have a hardline Christian being treated by a Muslim. You may have a hardline atheist being treated by a theist. The potential for ire is so great in this situation that the job may be put on the back boiler.


Which brings us back to the matter of good manners. Regardless of what I believe, I accept that other people have their own beliefs, and with the provisio that it harm none, I am quite happy for someone to offer me prayer, if it makes them feel better. Whether it will make me feel better is a moot point. Though to be fair, if I am ill enough to need nursing, I would rather have all the big guns on my side, and that includes any major deities that take an interest.

Simply put, people should have the manners to respect other peoples beliefs.


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Xelebes
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13 Feb 2009, 10:41 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Xelebes wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
Would you ask the nurse to just simply get on with their job and stop proselytising?


It's been established that the nurse was NOT proselytizing.


I'm using the word in a distorted sesne, as iff one is rather miffed at what the nurse is doing. Not the legal sense.


Why?


Because I was using an allegory or describing a situation where one's perception may be distorted one way or another.


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13 Feb 2009, 10:48 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Simply put, people should have the manners to respect other peoples beliefs.


Then we also have to apply that to the jobsite. What is polite and impolite? "Political correctness" is just a loaded term used by those who do not want to be polite. All it really is is figuring out what is polite and impolite. Professional standards are partly formed by deciding what is polite and impolite. Professional organisations have the right to withhold certification to those breach the standards based on impoliteness. Employers have the right to fire somebody who does not follow those standards.


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15 Feb 2009, 5:34 pm

We seem to be missing the point again that the employee's behavior reflects on the employer. It's a matter of image. Someone wanting to pray is not a problem - someone offering prayer while representing the NHS is a little different. It's obviously a personal matter, but we can't assume everyone will separate the two. The NHS has every right to restrict non-work behaviors during work time, just as they may impose dress codes or other restrictions on how a person appears or behaves. I'm not saying they should be able to control every aspect of their employees and turn them into drones, but the fact is that we don't complain about these things as long as they fit our own views. As soon as one rubs us the wrong way, then it's discrimination.

For an atheist, having to separate religion from work is exactly like the expectation that we don't go around swearing at clients. Or a dress code requiring clean, presentable clothes. It's easy to follow and just makes good sense. It's simple enough and prudent to keep your mouth shut about things that don't relate to what you're doing. If you can't do that, maybe you're in the wrong job. You don't expect your car salesman to pray for you because you just want a car. You don't expect your nurse to pray for you because you just want medical care (unless you want spirit healing). And the fact that the two can and are conflated in the latter example just demonstrates the greater danger of allowing them to mix in the workplace.


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