The Israeli Flotilla incident

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What are people's thoughts on this one? I'm having trouble finding a discussion about it that's not filled with raving lunatics on both sides. Said raving lunatics, in choosing to be more emotional than rational, obviously forfeit their right to be taken seriously.

The people on the ships knew what was going to happen and were looking to start trouble. There are ways to get Israel to let aid through but the activists didn't use them.

Israel is out of its mind.

The "peace activists" got what they wanted

I think Israel had every right to stop them when they attempted to pass through the blockade. They were explicitly offered safe passage to another harbor where the aid could be distributed under procedures set out by the Israeli government with their oversight, but they chose to ignore this.

After they got into a fight with the Israeli boarding party, things went wrong. While the fire by the boarding party was understandable self-defence, they should have been using rubber bullets. (Not that they can't kill someone at close range, but y'know)

Honestly the world is a mess, and I personally am uncertain about who has moral superiority and who has legal superiority in this situation. The millitant part of Hamas launches rockets, Israel blockades Gaza, Turkey (I think it was Turkey based) launches an aid mission and Israel attempts to send the aid through a secure passage to maintain the blockade, the ship (only one apparently was subject to boarding) ignores the israeli hails to change course and it all ends with Israel either having used disproportionate force or the activists having attacked an armed boarding party.

You don't bring rubber bullets to a fight involving real bullets. Rubber bullets don't stop someone with a melee weapon either if they are really motivated like these guys were.

Back in 1948 the United Nations declared that part of Palestine was to be a Jewish homeland even though most of the land was owned by Palestinians.

Since that time the Israelis (Jews) have taken more and more of the land outside their original boundaries. This continues today with their "settlements".

So here is the question:

If Israel claims that ALL the land is part of Israel then everyone in the country should be given equal rights, equal votes and equal protection.

If Gaza is a separate country (Palestine) then what gives Israel the right to bomb it, blockade it and starve the people?

Either way there is a major injustice being done to the original people who once owned ALL the land.

It is a fire base for a group of people (Hamas) who do not recognize Israel's right to exist and whose avowed purpose is to destroy Israel as a nation and kill or drive out the Jews who live there. Currently the Hamas folk are not firing rockets at civilians because the IDF has beat them bloody, but their goal has not changed.

When these people feel the time is right, once more they will set up rocket firing stations in schools, hospitals, Mosques and baby nurseries.

ruveyn

New video released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6sAEYpHF24

Shows the activists throw a stun grenade at the navy boat, and waiting with bats and chains.

In 2005, Israel officially withdrew from Gaza. The only Israelis who claim that it is part of Israel are a few ultra-religious nut jobs who claim that the land is inherently Jewish land, given to the Jews by G-d, regardless of who is actually living there, blah, blah, blah. We can ignore those ultra-religious nut jobs.



This statement of yours does quite a bit to call the legitimacy of your opinions into question.

1. When Israel bombed Gaza, it targeted militants and military targets. This includes people's homes if they are storing weapons in their homes.

2. The blockade which Israel has placed is to prevent weapons being smuggled into the region. This seems like the least harmful method of preventing rocket fire.

3. Israel is not starving the people of Gaza. The Hamas government, meanwhile, has imposed a tyrannical rule over its citizens.

4. Worst of all, you call into question Israel's military actions in Gaza, but you do not call into question similar, unprovoked actions an the part of Hamas. It should be noted that Hamas, when they fire rockets, target civilians.

By condemning only the smaller of the two human rights violations, you show that you are not using logic, but emotions, to make your decisions. This renders your opinions worthless.

Israel is out of its mind. It's making war on everyone now. It also recently barred Noam Chomsky from speaking a Ber Zeit University in the West Bank simply because he wasn't lecturing at Israeli Universities in the same tour. The greatest threat to Israel's existence is from itself and it's so called "supporters," imagine I encouraged you to go postal, now what kind of friend would I be. Some of you may counter with "but Arab terrorism," but a significant portion of Palestinian resistance is Gandhi style.

Why was it blocking the Aid ship or redirecting it in the first place?

It was being inspected by the IDF under suspicion of carrying carrying weapons into Gaza and were greeted by an out of control violent mob chanting "Death To Jews". I wonder why they would ever suspect these people of smuggling weapons?

The Nazi's said similar things about Jews.

Many Free-Palestine activists are Jews and some of them are from Israel, for example: Noam Chomsky (actually spent time on a kibbutz in the 50's), Hedy Epstein, Anna Baltzer, Ilan Pappe, Norman Finklestein, Amira Haas, Neve Gordon, Annie Lennox (was married to an Israeli), the list goes on........

It's delusional to think that such differences exist between people, Jews and Arabs, Aspies and NT's, etc.

Perhaps you are having trouble finding and participating in a discussion about this because you seem to find it difficult to accept that there might be more than simply the Israeli perspective on this, never mind the idea that what Israel has done is tantamount to an act of war or state-sponsored terrorism. Israeli military boarded a Turkish ship, in international waters and then shot at those on board, killing 9 and injuring many more. It is hardly surprising that those on board attempted to defend themselves.