Medical ethicist suggests killing disabled & unwanted ba

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Wow... This is scary. I've been reading about how disabled people are being demonized in the UK. Now this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ead_module

One of the comments said there was a government order there for doctors to put a DNR in disabled and learning disabled children's files without the parents knowledge or consent. Is this true?

i wouldn't worry. it won't catch on. i don't know about UK, but in the states, for a DNR order to be legal, the patient, the family, and the doctor all have to agree. i can't imagine a doctor deciding for a DNR order unilaterally.

This woman is a believer in eugenics. These people believe it is okay to kill "defective" people at any age to improve the "race." What they won't tell you is:

- Who gets to decide what is defective and what isn't?
- What qualifies as defect versus normal?
- What criteria will be used to define defective versus normal?

Naturally, the eugenics believers don't consider themselves to be among the defectives.

Just remember the NAZIS any time you hear any thing like this. They were into eugenics, too. They wiped out millions of people they didn't approve of, all justified by declaring them defective, and thus a drain on and a danger to the Reich.

Besides Jews, they also wiped out the disabled, including mentally ret*d people, persons with gender issues, the elderly, persons of ethnic or racial groups that they considered inferior, and convicted criminals, except those that had joined the NAZI party.

These oh so nice and rational sounding people are advocating mass murder! That tells you all you need to know about them. And remember, we on the spectrum are general considered defective. I agree that I am defective, but that doesn't justify killing me. I still have a life, and do stuff that matters, if only to me most of the time.

You aspies and auties in the UK, remind that journal and anyone else over there that what that lady is advocating is the same mass murder horror stuff that the NAZIS really did.

Excellent, excellent point. And why is 'normal' held up to be the greatest of all values.

And this might be a good time to trot out all the famous people who are on the spectrum or probably on the spectrum. And then make the point, most people who are on the spectrum are medium-functioning, just like most people in general.

I thought most of the Nazis were imprisoned, killed, or went to South America. I wonder if she is the Kin of a Nazi or of a traitor, as she looks a little like thin-faced Eva Braun or another German Woman. It sucks that her parents or grandparents weren't killed during The Blitz, or at least during WWII or killed by Unexploded ordnance from WWII, as she would have never been born.

Ironicly anyone who believes and advocates eugenics, in my belief, is not the least bit "normal".

The Nazis were not normal. However normal cannot truly be defined because it is relative to ones culture and even that is relative to the period of time one lives. Therefore normal is only defined by one's own critera thus as a unit of measurement, normal does not exist.

Jojo

Nothing new here, google "Peter Singer euthanasia" -- he's been saying the same thing for 15-20 years. I guess the fact that he's been saying it for so long (since it didn't catch on) is a good sign.

What really skeeves me out is how people with such bizarre views seek out an obtain titles such as "ethicist" or "medical ethicist."

It's interesting how the same argument can be presented in a different way and people who would have refused Nazi dogma as inhuman will accept it as long as it's sugar-coated and comes out of a smiling, educated woman. "Kill the useless and expendable, they're a drain on our society and resources!"

Are people really that easily led?

Hmmmm. Disabled people don't ask not to be hired for employment and limited to government resources, excluded and isolated socially, and generally kept from being active, happy participating producers in society.

Is there an ethicist and a news site willing to discuss that?

I doubt it.

Last edited by -Skeksis- on 01 Mar 2012, 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

No Einsteins in the feature then. Societies will ret*d into a super socializing, no progress society. Oh there's competition between societies too.. oops

I'm just curious about the creditials of this particular " news" publication. Sounds a lot more like sensationalist tabloid trash than substantiated journalism to me.

Oh, wait. I just looked it up... that's exactly what it is.

I was reading someone's blog and they mentioned being in an ER with something serious (pneumonia?) and overheard a doctor say, 'she has the mind of an infant [and thus] no quality of life [and so] maybe we should 'let nature take its course.''

Now, the thing is she has serious communication issues and behavior that causes people assume that she is mentally ret*d, even though she isn't. Leaving aside the issue of ret*d people's lives meaning less than non-retarded people's, are there any safeguards for when the doctor does unilaterally (and presumably without telling the relatives) decide to enact an "unofficial" DNR? Or do you just have to hope that your doctor doesn't think that way?

"They're breaking the back of the country! We have no choice. It's why you don't have a job and your children are going hungry (and your wife won't give you sex). It's why our enemies increasingly see us as weak and why your town is going broke. It's the reason why everything that is wrong is wrong. If we can just fix this, then everything will be ok again."

The propaganda never changes and yet people fall for it over and over. In 2012 it's called "austerity."

I would say that history proves that, yes, they are. Maybe "led" is the wrong word. It's more that it's easy to manipulate people through fear.

That's one reason I'm not a fan of bringing up Nazis (even though it is the same thing), because most people see themselves as very far away from Nazis, even when they really aren't. "The banality of evil" and all that.

I am in the US. Georgia to be exact,

My friend is a nurse and she said there is a such thing in the US as a "slow code" which is basicly medically killing someone. This was happening to my dad, my nurse friend pointed it out, and he was then transfered to a different hospital. But they were giving him super high doses of morphine which has sulfur in it. My dad was very allergic to sulfur and was in his allergy chart...his kidneys were shutting down. It was not until we found out that morphine has sulfur in it, and called them on it that they took him off of it and his kidney function returned to normal. He died anyway when MRSA infection took over his lungs. Strangely none of it was on his skin, where it normally manifests first before going internally. The only way it could have been only in his lungs was if it was in his breathing equiptment which he was on because of COPD. I dont consider this to be an accident. His doctors decided he was to die. I cant prove it was intentional...but in my gut, I know it was.

The same doctor that slow coded my dad was reported in the paper to have given hugely illegal doses of insulin to a diabetic patient before she woke up from surgery. The nurses tried to stop him, but he fought them and injected her. She coded moments later and went into a diabetic coma for 4 months. I refer to him as Dr. Death...somebody locally is protecting him cuz no matter what he does to whom...he does not get punished.

My nurse friend also told me that she overheard doctors saying that a sick post menopausal woman no longer has a use to society and there is no point in wasting effort trying to save her. You dont have to worry about Obamacare wiping out granny, they have been doing that for some time on their own. I guess if you are female and cant push out a sh*tload of babies then you are of no use and should die.

I do know that medicine is very gender biased. My mom has a rare disease and she is part of a support group specific to that disease. It mostly occurs in women, but sometimes in men. The women in the group mostly go 10 years or more before a diagnosis and are mostly treated like head cases, even though this disease can be life threatening. However the men usually get top of the line care and are diagnosed in less than 2 years and are in alot better health than the women, who even after diagnosed, are still treated like they are somewhat pscho-somatic. The difference in care between the males and females in the group is glaring. The ones who suffer the worst mistreatment and lack of proper care are women who had hysterectomies or are post menopausal.

I hate it when doctors play god, but from what I seen...it is best to eat healthy and try to take care of yourself to avoid being at the mercy of the US medical system.


Jojo

Of course it's not true. Jeez. What do you think we are in the UK - Nazi Germany?
The Daily Mail is one of the lowest forms of so-called "newspaper" here: it's full of unmitigated and distorted trash from cover to cover.
It's crap. Absolutely nothing it reports is worth a second glance.

I find this sickening. As someone brought up in a family that holds views similar to this ethicist's, I am majorly triggered. (Okay, I know I could've skipped this thread, but I'm also fascinated.) This sort of nonsense is one reason I'm not a utilitarian ethically.

So true. Unfortunately, it's likely someone with at least a lot of privilege, who is deciding these things.

Here's a little perspective: this ghastly woman represents anything remotely related to medical procedures or medical ethics in much the same way as the Westboro Baptist Church represents anything remotely related to the teachings of Christ or religion generally.