Possible explanation comes out: Fear of Being Committed

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Toy_Soldier
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18 Dec 2012, 4:23 pm

This sounds credible to me. His mom had started process to have him involuntarily committed. Still doesn't explain what mental condition he had yet, but the Doctor running the medical investigation (Carver) said in another article today that 'Aspergers isn't even on the menu' as far as what they are looking for. A third article today said so far have found no indication that Lanza was on any meds. Main source is Marine, who grew up there and is son of local pastor. Lanza's possible grudge against the school is also mentioned.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fe ... n-to-snap/



Last edited by Toy_Soldier on 18 Dec 2012, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Dec 2012, 5:01 pm

Your link has a t at the beginning where h should be.

It does sound like a plausible motive. It's even possible, if she was friends with all three, that she consulted with the principal, psychologist and teacher on her decision.

BUT you don't have someone committed or put under conservatorship for autism - at least I've never heard of that. So, if this is true, there had to be a lot more going on with him than possible autism.

And why, why, why, if she questioned his ability to function that much, why did he have access to guns that were registered to her? :( And where was his dad in all this? His brother? Geez, this is just a nightmare all around. Poor woman was dealing with a clearly very troubled son and apparently with no help or support at all from other family members. I'm so sad for her at this point.



Toy_Soldier
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18 Dec 2012, 5:19 pm

BlueAbyss wrote:
Your link has a t at the beginning where h should be.

It does sound like a plausible motive. It's even possible, if she was friends with all three, that she consulted with the principal, psychologist and teacher on her decision.

BUT you don't have someone committed or put under conservatorship for autism - at least I've never heard of that. So, if this is true, there had to be a lot more going on with him than possible autism.

And why, why, why, if she questioned his ability to function that much, why did he have access to guns that were registered to her? :( And where was his dad in all this? His brother? Geez, this is just a nightmare all around. Poor woman was dealing with a clearly very troubled son and apparently with no help or support at all from other family members. I'm so sad for her at this point.


Yes, thanks. Link fixed.

I know. I have felt bad for this woman from the beginning. You know what its like trying to handle a difficult case like that alone. Dad leaves, brother leaves. I noted that older brother said he hadn't seen Lanza since 2010. Asperger's alone never explained this case. You knew there was more to it. Nearly every mental health professional agreed to that. But the longer it sits out there as the only named condition it poisons the environment.

The only think I can really say was a big mistake on her part, was keeping guns in that house.



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18 Dec 2012, 5:28 pm

God, what a sad shame.

Makes it look real bad for the rest of us, too. Like no matter how OK we are at any given moment in time, we're a mass killing waiting to happen. I am so sick of being treated that way-- knowing that no matter how long I function very well, in a lot of people's eyes it's just an illusion, an interlude before "reality" rears its ugly head.

Makes me want to be dead. Not that I'll act on it-- but I might wish that the inherited heart defect that killed my dad is also in me, and that I'll simply drop dead sometime while things are still good. I hate thinking that the bad times-- which have made up about 15% of my life to date-- are "the reality" and everything else is "a reprieve."

What a misearable shame. That mental health treatment should be such that a person feels that killing all these people and blowing his own head off is preferable to a stay in the psych ward.

Too bad the attetion this brings to the state of mental health care in America will result in changes for the worse, not for the better.

Would that the average human being had a tendency to think logically rather than emotionally. I would be a lot less afraid right now.


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18 Dec 2012, 5:29 pm

BlueAbyss wrote:
BUT you don't have someone committed or put under conservatorship for autism - at least I've never heard of that. So, if this is true, there had to be a lot more going on with him than possible autism.


My mother works at a facility where they keep *one* low functioning autistic person under 24 hour surveillance and control by *four* staff members.

One reason: He does not feel pain. Annual cost for this individual: >700,000 $.

But since Lanza was high-functioning (Aspergers), I agree that this alone would probably not justify being committed.



Toy_Soldier
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18 Dec 2012, 5:36 pm

BuyerBeware wrote:
God, what a sad shame.

Makes it look real bad for the rest of us, too. Like no matter how OK we are at any given moment in time, we're a mass killing waiting to happen. I am so sick of being treated that way-- knowing that no matter how long I function very well, in a lot of people's eyes it's just an illusion, an interlude before "reality" rears its ugly head.

Makes me want to be dead. Not that I'll act on it-- but I might wish that the inherited heart defect that killed my dad is also in me, and that I'll simply drop dead sometime while things are still good. I hate thinking that the bad times-- which have made up about 15% of my life to date-- are "the reality" and everything else is "a reprieve."

What a misearable shame. That mental health treatment should be such that a person feels that killing all these people and blowing his own head off is preferable to a stay in the psych ward.

Too bad the attetion this brings to the state of mental health care in America will result in changes for the worse, not for the better.

Would that the average human being had a tendency to think logically rather than emotionally. I would be a lot less afraid right now.


There is a definate chance another diagnosis will come out of this. They have yet to release the information in the medical records, and the last note I saw was they were still working the court orders necessary to get the records. I just hope they weren't tampered with. The medical examiner is, if I understood it correctly even looking at the killers genes to see if that reveals anything.

But I agree at this point it is taking the publics opinion of us down and raising their fear of us up.



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18 Dec 2012, 9:37 pm

Something to add. In the flurry of reports that have come out (some erroneous) I saw one early on about there being an altercation between Lanza and 4 adults at the school the day before the shooting. As the story went, three of the four were killed, including principle and pyschologist. The 4th, a male was not at the school the day of the shooting.

But the story disappeared quickly & I never saw it again. I thought it weird it just disappeared and assumed it might therefore have proven false.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Dec 2012, 10:01 pm

Or it could be the doomsday theory? This particular motive is not yet set in stone. I still think he was pushed over the edge by all this talk of Mayan doomsday. It's upsetting to some people and they react to the stress by becoming more unstable than normal and it's not just Adam Lanza but many others as well. Some people are very sensitive to these subtle stresses even if they are not consciously aware of it, it affects their psyches and could their behavior as well.



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18 Dec 2012, 10:10 pm

I can't help but wonder what would have happened to this boy if he had pursued computer science, and wonder why he hadn't continued down the path of taking those college courses... :( It doesn't seem right that AS alone is a reason for all this. I hope that the information they find can explain any other influencing factors.



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18 Dec 2012, 10:49 pm

The Mayan calender thing being a factor is possible I suppose. It is not looking good for getting the data off his hard drive right now, which would be a shame for it might indicate something of that nature if he was visiting those type sites.

I do hope it is not just left at aspergers, but that something more consistant with psychosis comes out. He was at an age when certain psychosis typically begin to show. But in many cases and for various reasons it takes a long time for those to get diagnosed correctly. I just read the medical examiner did confirm he had a Aspergers diagnosis. I guess its in the medical investigators hands and we will just have to wait and see.

I did want to say, that aspergers does not affect a persons core personality, and that anyone NT or AS can simply be a bad egg. You don't have to read many other headlines to see there are plenty of those:

In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Dec 2012, 11:18 pm

I just read about Adam Lanza's mother took him to the shooting range a few days before the shooting spree. This doesn't sound like the actions of someone who is wanting to involuntarily commit her child. Sounds like the actions of a trusting parent. If a parent thought her child was a danger and needed to be committed, would she take him someplace where he can hone his shooting skills?



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18 Dec 2012, 11:24 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I just read about Adam Lanza's mother took him to the shooting range a few days before the shooting spree. This doesn't sound like the actions of someone who is wanting to involuntarily commit her child. Sounds like the actions of a trusting parent. If a parent thought her child was a danger and needed to be committed, would she take him someplace where he can hone his shooting skills?


I think that is incorrect. The police investigating it today said neither had been to any range at least within the last six months. They had been at ranges prior to that, but no timeline of when.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Dec 2012, 11:35 pm

You could be right. I also just read a story where it said there is absolutely no connection between his mother and the Sandy Hook Elementary.



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18 Dec 2012, 11:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You could be right. I also just read a story where it said there is absolutely no connection between his mother and the Sandy Hook Elementary.


I have been reading that too all along, and so far only a early very report from a friend/relative and this marines story connects Nancy with the school. But from civil service experience I know it is possible they just haven't got the right records yet. Its also possible she was an unpaid volunteer, which was something consistant with her character. Unfortunately most of the people who would likely have known from memory, were killed.

There's been more then one red herring story published and so its hard to know which to believe and which not too. There are apparently some basically professional hoaxers who jump in on these things to create misinformation or exploit it to make money. Hard to imagine such human bottom feeders but they are out there in great numbers.

The marines story establishes a fairly complete train of motivations. But I have had thoughts that it may be almost too complete. As in spectulative, if not invented. I would have thought a major news agency would have vetted it, but everyones in a rush & so who knows.



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18 Dec 2012, 11:54 pm

Toy_Soldier wrote:
The Mayan calender thing being a factor is possible I suppose. It is not looking good for getting the data off his hard drive right now, which would be a shame for it might indicate something of that nature if he was visiting those type sites.

I do hope it is not just left at aspergers, but that something more consistant with psychosis comes out. He was at an age when certain psychosis typically begin to show. But in many cases and for various reasons it takes a long time for those to get diagnosed correctly. I just read the medical examiner did confirm he had a Aspergers diagnosis. I guess its in the medical investigators hands and we will just have to wait and see.

I did want to say, that aspergers does not affect a persons core personality, and that anyone NT or AS can simply be a bad egg. You don't have to read many other headlines to see there are plenty of those:

In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

Those numbers are down 32% since 2007. It seems the best thing the Obama administration can do is leave gun control alone and focus on other social policies that are the underlying cause of violent crime.


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18 Dec 2012, 11:56 pm

GGPViper wrote:
BlueAbyss wrote:
BUT you don't have someone committed or put under conservatorship for autism - at least I've never heard of that. So, if this is true, there had to be a lot more going on with him than possible autism.


My mother works at a facility where they keep *one* low functioning autistic person under 24 hour surveillance and control by *four* staff members.

One reason: He does not feel pain. Annual cost for this individual: >700,000 $.

But since Lanza was high-functioning (Aspergers), I agree that this alone would probably not justify being committed.

It sounds like that facility may need to reconsider the environment it creates and how it conducts it's operations.


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"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud