Principal cancels honors night to spare kids feelings

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This is the result of the "touchy-feely lets be sensitive" movement. Whats next, getting rid of grades altogether because it implies that some kids learned better than others?

Principal cancels honor's night

I just don't understand how schools think they're doing students a service with this idiotic mindset.

What about the kids' feelings who deserve the honors? But then again, in everything except math, I got stoopid high test scores without having to study. I just never did my homework.

Can the principal prove his case? He is making an argument. What exactly are his premises that leads to his conclusion? I would ask him to do that.

Oliveoilmom, do you know what his premises are that leads to this conclusion and if yes, can you refute them? If you can refute them will you do so?

Unless I am misunderstanding all you seem to be doing is implying that you do not like this interlocutor's assertion. A lot of people seem to do this as well. They will call something stupid or they will call someone crazy without refuting the argument made by the interlocutor himself.

What premises does this interlocutor have that is fallacious?

Why is this mindset idiotic? What premises does this principal have that are fallacious?

Did you read the article at all? Do you not find this idiotic? Opinions are allowed, you know.

This is simply the logical conclusion of the touchy feely movement. Do you not see the idiocy of this? Without rewards or recognition, what is the purpose of achievement? Most people won't work harder simply to prove something to themselves.

When you shield kids from any type of disappointment, then they aren't going to be able to weather it as adults. I've heard that this is a big complaint about the "Gen Y" employees. They have trouble dealing with setbacks and realistic expectations, because they just don't have those skills in their toolbelt. I don't see how recognizing students for academic achievement is a bad thing.
On a more personal note, my son had issues in elementary school because the material wasn't challenging him at all. When I tried to have them adjust the curriculum to something more appropriate, they refused on the grounds that it would hurt his self esteem to be singled out. There were no issues shunting him off when he started having full-on meltdowns in class though...
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Good article on those challenges.

I actually did read the article. The issue that I have is that it never discusses how he comes to his beliefs and what thought process he uses. He may have come to his conclusions based upon erroneous thinking. I have a lot of questions for him as well.

I can state why the touchy feely movement is fallacious. It is based upon the assumptions that a. it is a stimulus itself instead of a reaction a stimulus b. self-esteem is always good c. self esteem will always produce good behavior and good outcomes.

These are some of the premises I believe he is basing his conclusions on. In addition, he makes the assumption that all underachievers and those who have difficulties are non-resilient. How does the interlocutor derive this as so? Narcissists supposedly have high self-esteem and have a high sense of entitlement. Do they have good behaviors and good outcomes? These are some of the things I would ask.


Yes, we are allowed to have opinions. There are more opinions then there is critical analysis to them. All you have said was this man's beliefs was idiotic. It doesn't state why these beliefs are idiotic and it does not go under the hood.



When we mean rewards do we means those that are external or those that are internal as well? Can a reward be just a good feeling or does this reward have to be outside of oneself? Why does rewards and recognition have to exist to give a purpose to achievement?

Why must achievement have a purpose? Why can't one pursue wisdom, knowledge and understanding not for reward but just for knowledge's sake?

The idea that when some one is better it is a reproach and an insult to someone who is not better.

Gradiations in ability and effort are a fact of life. Some of us are smarter than others. Some of us are better athletes than others. Some of us work harder or try harder than others. That is just the way it is.

ruveyn

Ruveyn, I know gradiations in ability and effort are a fact of life. I know that some of us are smarter than others and some of us are better athletes than others. I know all of this.

I do not have any issues with this whatsoever. This can be proven through various tests and these tests have been proven as well.

What I desire to understand is how the principal comes to his conclusions. For all we know, he could have some kind of brain tumor. Why was his beliefs called idiotic without the logical disproof of his beliefs? A lot of people will just say that x belief is idiotic. Why? You have also contributed further to the disproof of his beliefs in addition to mine.

What I am stating is I did not understand OliveOilMom and other poster's response and reaction to the interculator's beliefs? I do agree the interculator's beliefs are fallacious but her reactions to me make no sense. A lot of people react the same way. I do not logically grasp it. Why wouldn't we attempt to investigate how interculators got to their beliefs and conclusions?

For me, if I am wrong on something I don't want to be called an idiot I want to know why I am wrong. My ultimate goal is to get to where the truth(s) may lie. I can't do this with fallacious reasoning. I desire any conclusions I state and any arguments I make to be logically dissected and shown the fallacious premises that lead up to the faulty conclusions.

If I am misguided on something and I have a factual error please show me. The thing is though, I want to be better in different aspects of my life. Wouldn't the principal want to as well? Would the principal deliberately believe something and teach something that can cause his students harm. How can he go on the right path if he is not shown what the right path is and why?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 22 Mar 2013, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's not just about his beliefs. It's the fact that he's changing that school's policies to reflect those beliefs, to the possible detriment of the students affected by them. I don't see him presenting evidence to support these changes, only the statement that he feels it's not good for kids to feel bad. I find that action idiotic.

This is an awesome answer. I want him to present evidence as well and show how he gets to his feelings. You've given a sound reasoning behind your objections. I have these objections as well. My issue is this. A lot of people will just state that something is idiotic without stating their reasoning. Maybe a belief is based upon fallacious reasoning and this could be caused by misinterpretation of facts. If I am wrong on something I want to know why?

How does calling his beliefs idiotic without showing him why afford him that opportunity to understand? If I was this principal I would want others to state why they believe my gut feeling was off. What exactly is the correct way to go and why is it the correct way to go?

Hey, not everyone is a straight-A student.

It never bothered me when kids got honored for what they'd done in FFA or FHA or school sports or church groups or whatever.

I don't think it bothered them that I was generally a 4.0 student. I think some of them might have felt a little sorry that that was all I had, but that was about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

Or read The Giver. Fair warning: Get some extra sleep before you start.

ETA: What needs to change isn't people having different abilities or people being recognized for their strengths. What needs to change is the value judgment we're all so painfully familiar with, that if you are better at something (or many things) then you yourself are inherently and objectively better than someone who is not so good at it.

Good luck changing that one. Snort.

A great many people seem to be indulging in that Aspie pastime of projecting their own thinking onto others.

We know what the principal wrote in his letter. But we don't know the facts that gave rise to that.

Does this particular year have a large number of students who failed to meet the mark? Is there one student who has, "swept the boards," leaving little left for their peers? We don't know. And more to the point, it's not of our business.

The goal of education is (or at least should be) to create an environment in which all students are able to reach their potential. This goal is already blindsided by matters outside of the control of educators, and a group of armchair pedadogues is not really going to improve matters.

Parents who disagree with this principal's decision will have the opportunity to voice their displeasure, and influence his decision. As for the rest of us, I would recommend that we stop assuming that we know all the facts.

I blame a lot of this kind of mindset on helicopter parents. You know the ones, and what they do. Little Johnny or little Julie certainly shouldn't have to work extra hard and get tired or frustrated. A little effort should be rewarded the same as a full on success according to them. I'm not talking about younger kids or kids with learning disabilities, I'm talking about parents who think that their child should get all the benefits of a successful academic or extracurricular career without any of the actual success.

Gen Y has an ENORMOUS sense of entitlement and this is one of the many reasons why.