In New Zealand, drawings deserve more justice than humans

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Beauty_pact
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28 Apr 2013, 9:16 pm

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A New Zealand man was sentenced to three months in jail for possessing and viewing Japanese anime that depicted fantasy creatures having sex. Ronald Clark said he downloaded the videos three years ago as "a bit of a laugh." Clark's lawyer described the anime as depictions of "pixies and trolls" that were unlike humans. Clark is also facing an additional 10 years of penalties including a supervision order preventing him from being near areas with children.

Alan Bell, director of the anti-child pornography group ECPAT Child Alert, said the images violate New Zealand law because they encourage people "to migrate from there to the real thing." The characters' depictions as young, child-like creatures led to concerns that the anime could illicit real-world child abuse. Bell also commented that animated depictions of child abuse are a "huge" problem in Japan but noted that no child was harmed in the production of these images.

/.../

Link: www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-04-2 ... ntai-anime

I used to believe that New Zealand was a place with an unusual amount of free speech - especially after the New Zealand government's handling of the Megaupload case. Apparently I was wrong, though... I also was wrong about ECPAT - an organization I used to deeply respect, in the past. But not after they jumped on the the thought crime bandwagon.... =_=

Meanwhile in New Zealand:

Quote:

Up-skirt video teacher avoids jail

A senior teacher who filmed up girls' skirts with a secret pen camera for his own "sexual pleasure and gratification" has avoided jail today.

Doug Martin, 57, was a trusted and respected teacher at Lincoln High School, outside Christchurch, and a local church elder.

But now his career is in tatters and his life in turmoil after he pleaded guilty to 20 charges of filming up girls' skirts over a six-month period last year, which a judge today described as a gross breach of trust.

He filmed them at his school and at a shopping mall, as well as other locations which have been suppressed.

/.../

Link: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/#!/nz/news/arti ... d=10878339 (copy and paste the link - the forum software makes it get broken)

In New Zealand, an absolute minimum of twenty *existing*, young *human* victims are less deserving of justice than unrealistic drawings of trolls and pixies. Creatures that definitely are unrealistic, for sure, as they *do not exist*.

Fnord
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28 Apr 2013, 10:31 pm

What do you intend to DO about it?

Beauty_pact
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29 Apr 2013, 2:47 am

Fnord wrote:

What do you intend to DO about it?

What do YOU intend to do about it?

Declension
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29 Apr 2013, 3:38 am

Disclaimer: I live in New Zealand, but I'm not a "defend your homeland right or wrong" type of person. That said, I do want to play devil's advocate here a bit.

Firstly, the law of a country isn't a monolithic entity, so the criticism of inconsistency seems a bit naive. Different judges with different political motivations will make different decisions in different cases. This is true even in countries with a formal constitution (which New Zealand doesn't have).

Secondly, New Zealand does have a pretty good record on free speech, but this case isn't about free speech. There is no controversial opinion which can only be expressed through the medium of cartoon pornography. The Megaupload case isn't about free speech either, for that matter.

Thirdly, the comparison between fictional victims and real victims doesn't make sense. Nobody is claiming that the problem is that fictional characters were harmed. It's more about the potential harmful effects of such material.

Fnord
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29 Apr 2013, 8:03 am

Beauty_pact wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What do you intend to DO about it?

What do YOU intend to do about it?

Nothing, of course!

Absolutely nothing.

It makes more sense to work on improving the conditions in one's own country first without meddling in the affairs of another, don't you think?

Aspiegaming
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29 Apr 2013, 11:33 am

The world gets dumber everyday.

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Beauty_pact
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29 Apr 2013, 5:35 pm

Fnord wrote:

Beauty_pact wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What do you intend to DO about it?

What do YOU intend to do about it?

Nothing, of course!

Absolutely nothing.

It makes more sense to work on improving the conditions in one's own country first without meddling in the affairs of another, don't you think?

lol

It seems that we differ quite a bit with our opinions, there. Of course, that does not surprise me in the slightest. As I see it, one should fight for proper justice, regardless which country it is about. I have no particular attachment to my own country, either. Patriotism is, at best, foolish, and one of the main causes of war, in this world. It is tragic that most people can only see what is around them.

xenon13
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30 Apr 2013, 6:47 am

What do you expect from a country that implemented Rogernomics and thinks that ten years of depression was a good thing...

Fnord
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30 Apr 2013, 10:17 am

Beauty_pact wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Beauty_pact wrote:

Fnord wrote:

What do you intend to DO about it?

What do YOU intend to do about it?

Nothing, of course!

Absolutely nothing.

It makes more sense to work on improving the conditions in one's own country first without meddling in the affairs of another, don't you think?

That brings us back to my original question...

What do you intend to DO about it?

Whine and complain that "Something should be done"?

Or make snarky comments against people who point out how ineffective your brand of arm-chair activism really is?

bryanmaloney
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30 Apr 2013, 10:18 am

Beauty_pact wrote:

It seems that we differ quite a bit with our opinions, there. Of course, that does not surprise me in the slightest. As I see it, one should fight for proper justice, regardless which country it is about.

Okay, so what substantive acts have you taken? Online slacktivism doesn't count.

visagrunt
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30 Apr 2013, 11:04 am

Personally, I think that we should all simmer down, and not pretend that we can evaluate something as vague as, "proper justice," in two instant cases where we do not know the total facts.

Sentencing is not a saugsage grinder, where a fact pattern is put in at one end and a result comes out of the other. The personal circumstances of the convicted person and the victim, the nature and gravity of the crime, the time already served in pre-trial custody, the economic impact on dependents, the health of the convicted person and dozens of other facts can all influence what type of sentence is just.

The criminal law does not exist to grant closure to victims or to compensate them for the wrongs done to them. If we pretend that this is all justice is, then we are merely savages.

Moral outrage is all well and good in politics, but it's anathema in law.

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Declension
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30 Apr 2013, 7:35 pm

xenon13 wrote:

What do you expect from a country that implemented Rogernomics and thinks that ten years of depression was a good thing...

Um, I hate Rogernomics too, but what's the connection?

Rogernomics supporters would tend to be libertarians, and libertarians would tend to be the people who would allow cartoon child pornography, not forbid it.

New Zealand is a pretty small country, but it does have more than one person in it.

hanyo
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01 May 2013, 12:56 pm

That is really stupid and I just hope that stupidity doesn't spread to my country, otherwise a lot of innocent anime fans could be jailed and put on a sex offender registry for nothing.

neilson_wheels
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01 May 2013, 1:01 pm

I read that this guy had an old offense for indecent assault on a minor.

May have influenced the sentencing?

hanyo
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01 May 2013, 1:03 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:

I read that this guy had an old offense for indecent assault on a minor.

May have influenced the sentencing?

Maybe, especially if he had some kind of adult content or children related material restriction for his probation.

Beauty_pact
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01 May 2013, 6:07 pm

Fnord wrote:

I'm sorry, but you're the snarky one. I do not have to explain what I am to do about anything, just because you are asking me, in a tone that has a hint of resent, surely because I have irked you with my GMO threads. Additionally, "armchair activism" does not mean it is ineffective - just look at Avaaz. However, with the values you display here, I assume that you feel that Avaaz also should butt out of what they are doing?

As for what I am doing, other than posting threads: That is not something I plan to publicly state.

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