We had to kill our patients because of bad weather.

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aspergian_mutant
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13 Sep 2005, 11:52 pm

We had to kill our patients
by C AROLINE GRAHAM and JO KNOWSLEY, Mail on Sunday

09:01am 11th September 2005
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/liv ... _a_source=



Sean
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14 Sep 2005, 1:03 am

Did all of the patients euthanized give informed consent? Normally I don't approve of euthinasia, but in this scenario, there doesn't appear to have been any options that were really better or worse.



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14 Sep 2005, 1:17 am

what an impossible moral decision. i'm not saying whether or not they were right to do what they did, but i most certainly wouldn't want to have to make a decision like that.

when you're in that liminal situation and forced into making those sorts of decisions, the question of "right and wrong" balances on a knife edge, to the point of being almost irrelevant. my own spiritual path means i have to make decisions of that ilk (although never anywhere near as drastic, i have to add, thank the gods).

i do hope no-one judges them before they examine their own hearts. of course, many people have a value system which says "it's not up to me, it's up to god". well, lucky them, for having an external locus of control.

those doctors took the responsibility. i have no doubt some of them will be villified for doing that. i, for one, certainly will not be doing so, whether i agree with their actions or not.



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14 Sep 2005, 2:09 am

I think they did what they thought was the best thing at the time for the welfare of their patients.

It would be too easy to judge them retrospectively or out of context of the situation they were in.

It is clearly wrong that this situation came about, let's hope that some important lessons have been learnt by those that are/should be planning for such disasters in the future..


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Sean
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14 Sep 2005, 4:54 am

The only way I think that such a thing could be justified is it they could prove mathematically in court that doing away with a few people who were draining sparse resouces and were going to die anyway saved more lives than they took. Speaking of resouces, if you are going to go through that much trouble to save resources, it seems that it would have been better to just give them a regular but generous dose of morphine and put a pillow over their faces to save more morphine and other supplies for those that stand a chance of making it. Since the medical staff didn't even have any food and were shooting up a sugar solution to keep working, doing something like tht might not be quite as obscene as it sounds.



ascan
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14 Sep 2005, 1:04 pm

Sean wrote:
The only way I think that such a thing could be justified is it they could prove mathematically in court that doing away with a few people who were draining sparse resouces and were going to die anyway saved more lives than they took...

Perhaps I've missed something, because I've no idea how you could come to that conclusion.

Unless you're talking about it in a purely legal sense.



Anna
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14 Sep 2005, 1:44 pm

aspergian_mutant wrote:
We had to kill our patients
by C AROLINE GRAHAM and JO KNOWSLEY, Mail on Sunday

09:01am 11th September 2005
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/liv ... _a_source=

Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
With gangs of rapists and looters rampaging through wards in the flooded city, senior doctors took the harrowing decision to give massive overdoses of morphine to those they believed could not make it out alive.

In an extraordinary interview with The Mail on Sunday, one New Orleans doctor told how she 'prayed for God to have mercy on her soul' after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.



These doctors made a decision that took courage and consideration for their patients. Good for them.


I consider this a far better decision on these doctors' parts than the nursing home where the caretakers simply abandoned their patients, leaving them to die in unspeakable ways...



chamoisee
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14 Sep 2005, 10:26 pm

Saying that they "killed their patients because of bad weather" is a gorss understatement and oversimplification....

These people were dying and a majority of them were in a lot of pain. It isn't like they were going to live if the doctors hadn't given them the morphine.

Furthermore, the hospital wards were about to be overtaken by rapists and looters...personally, if I had termional cancer and was in a helluva lot of pain, the last thing I'd want to endure before finally dying would be a whole bunch of brutal guys jumping my bones....

I think it was the best and most merciful thing they could have done.



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27 Nov 2014, 3:46 am

Sean wrote:
The only way I think that such a thing could be justified is it they could prove mathematically in court that doing away with a few people who were draining sparse resouces and were going to die anyway saved more lives than they took. Speaking of resouces, if you are going to go through that much trouble to save resources, it seems that it would have been better to just give them a regular but generous dose of morphine and put a pillow over their faces to save more morphine and other supplies for those that stand a chance of making it. Since the medical staff didn't even have any food and were shooting up a sugar solution to keep working, doing something like tht might not be quite as obscene as it sounds.


I think suffocation esspcially while on opiates would be a terrible/painful/horrifying way to go(provided you have brain function to be aware what is going on and would notice it)...would not want to experience that even if I was going to die, overdose and cold sounds better considering the senerio. I'd say its justified in the same way people putting their dying animals down is justified, putting a living thing out of its misery rather than leaving them to suffer a worse fate. And from the sound of it the OD injections where hard enough on the people giving them I think they would have had an even harder time having to suffocate the patients with pillows not to mention that is more inhumane.


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Jono
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27 Nov 2014, 8:01 am

Thanks for necroing a 9 year old thread.



Sweetleaf
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27 Nov 2014, 8:09 am

Jono wrote:
Thanks for necroing a 9 year old thread.


Oh crap didn't realize it was an old thread, for some reason a bunch of old threads keep showing up on the first page when I go to different forum sections, took me a while to catch on to this strange issue....so pretty sure I responded to this before i realized that. On my computer it showed up as a new thread not really my fault it confused me.

But I suppose you are welcome nonetheless...


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androbot01
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27 Nov 2014, 8:48 am

I don't like the new front page at all. It was much better when threads appeared as they were newly posted. The way it is now is completely random.



chagya
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27 Nov 2014, 9:50 pm

I envy those patients. i wish I could be euthanized this very minute.



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28 Nov 2014, 6:01 pm

To me this article is a sad reminder of what an unhealthy attitude we, as a society, have towards death. There is this fundamental assumption (usually unspoken) that death is just the worst thing ever - anything has to be better than death. This strikes me as completely ludicrous, considering that it's guaranteed to happen to every one of us. The decision is not between dying and living, it's between dying sooner and dying later. When you look at this way the doctors' actions seem perfectly reasonable and the really sad thing is that they felt it necessary to mentally torture themselves over this. This is something akin to kids in certain religions being made to feel guilty for masturbating, except that this is very common.


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