Sam Dubose

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androbot01
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29 Jul 2015, 3:17 pm

Worse and worse.

auntblabby
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29 Jul 2015, 5:36 pm

a dominant subset of American police forces are or see themselves as an occupying force at war with the colored and the poor, treating them all as insurgents. simple as that.

Adamantium
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29 Jul 2015, 7:42 pm

auntblabby wrote:

a dominant subset of American police forces are or see themselves as an occupying force at war with the colored and the poor, treating them all as insurgents. simple as that.

Nothing new there, sadly. Your accurate assessment reminds me of a report in the Army Times during rescue operation after Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans (my bold italics added):

Quote:

NEW ORLEANS - Combat operations are underway on the streets "to take this city back" in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
"This place is going to look like Little Somalia," Brig. Gen. Gary Jones, commander of the Louisiana National Guard's Joint Task Force told Army Times Friday as hundreds of armed troops under his charge prepared to launch a massive citywide security mission from a staging area outside the Louisiana Superdome. "We're going to go out and take this city back. This will be a combat operation to get this city under control."

Jones said the military first needs to establish security throughout the city. Military and police officials have said there are several large areas of the city are in a full state of anarchy. Dozens of military trucks and up-armored Humvees left the staging area just after 11 a.m. Friday, while hundreds more troops arrived at the same staging area in the city via Black Hawk and Chinook helicopters.

"We're here to do whatever they need us to do," Sgt. 1st Class Ron Dixon, of the Oklahoma National Guard's 1345th Transportation Company. "We packed to stay as long as it takes."

While some fight the insurgency in the city, other carry on with rescue and evacuation operations. Helicopters are still pulling hundreds of stranded people from rooftops of flooded homes.

auntblabby
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29 Jul 2015, 7:45 pm

it reminds me of that thing about how the man equipped with just a hammer will go around looking for things to nail.

androbot01
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29 Jul 2015, 8:10 pm

Gawker

Quote:

In the narrative submitted by officer Eric Weibel, one of the cops who responded to the scene after Tensing shot DuBose in the head, “Officer Tensing stated that he was attempting a traffic stop ... when at some point, he began to be dragged by a male black driver. ... Officer Tensing stated that he was almost run over by the driver, and was forced to shoot the driver with his duty weapon. ... Officer Tensing repeated that he was dragged by the vehicle and had to fire his weapon.”

Another officer, Phillip Kidd, apparently backed Tensing’s account. Weibel writes, “Officer Kidd told me that he witnessed the Honda Accord drag Officer Tensing, and that he witnessed Officer Tensing fire a single shot.”

Liars.

Quote:

But that’s not precisely what we see on the body camera video. Officer Tensing can be heard questioning DuBose about his license, while DuBose insists that it’s not suspended, but he doesn’t have it with him. They go back and forth on this point for a few moments, until Tensing orders DuBose to take off his seatbelt. DuBose puts one hand on the car window and the other on the key in the ignition. Seconds later, Tensing takes his gun out and shoots DuBose—who is now holding both hands up—once in the head.

Quote:

“It is our belief that he was not dragged. If you slow down this tape you see what happens, it is a very slow period of time from when the car starts rolling to when a gun is out and he’s shot in the head,” Hamilton County Prosecutor Joe Deters said Wednesday.

He said Tensing fell back after firing the shot, and the car—which accelerated when DuBose’s dead body slumped and “his foot must have pressed on the gas”—didn’t pull him at all.

blauSamstag
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29 Jul 2015, 8:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:

a dominant subset of American police forces are or see themselves as an occupying force at war with the colored and the poor, treating them all as insurgents. simple as that.

The other theory is that many cops know instinctively that they are no different from ancient watchmen, of the first communities, who's major job was to make sure that nobody is there who should not be.

The easiest ways to recognize someone who doesn't belong are strictly visual - wrong genetic makeup, wrong clothing indicative of wrong level of wealth, etc.

I used to drive a very ugly, beat up, crappy car. I got pulled over a lot. And the cops were typically combative. Even though i was already earning not-bad money in a technical field.

That all ended when i bought a decent looking car. I don't drive any different, I just look like i belong. Actually if anything i exceed the speed limit on a far more regular basis, and by a wider margin. I love turbos. Forced induction is the best.

auntblabby
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29 Jul 2015, 8:33 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a dominant subset of American police forces are or see themselves as an occupying force at war with the colored and the poor, treating them all as insurgents. simple as that.

but are the cops doing these things in the poor neighborhoods also? and if so, if the poor denizens therein are chased away, then where are they to go?

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29 Jul 2015, 9:21 pm

Hard to say.

If you look at it from the perspective that he's about to be dragged, then you can say a good shoot, as that's no different than if the dude pulled a pistol without pointing it; dragged is potentially lethal all the same and a car is a "deadly weapon" in many places. He did seem to be further down the street when he pulls away after the shot (check the car in front and how it's closer). You'd need to question if his hand was locked in place somehow.

If not dragged, then no, not a good shoot, as he's not a threat to anyone.

Perhaps manslaughter? I think that's the worst charge you can reasonably argue for.

Dillogic
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29 Jul 2015, 9:47 pm

Watching it more:

You definitely have to show if his hand was caught up or he was holding on with his own volition. Sadly, you can't see much in the way of where his hand is. He was dragged. The car accelerated and the guy shot immediately after the engine was revving, and when he got up after the shot he was further down the road.

It's no way as clear cut as people are saying.

blauSamstag
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30 Jul 2015, 12:55 am

Dillogic wrote:

No, he falls back after the first shot. He was not being dragged.

And at any rate, this guy was pulled over for not having a front license plate. It's not like he was a wanted killer.

blauSamstag
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30 Jul 2015, 12:56 am

auntblabby wrote:

blauSamstag wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

a dominant subset of American police forces are or see themselves as an occupying force at war with the colored and the poor, treating them all as insurgents. simple as that.

but are the cops doing these things in the poor neighborhoods also? and if so, if the poor denizens therein are chased away, then where are they to go?

You're not wrong about the war perspective. But in some cities, they resent the very existence of a poor neighborhood.

They certainly do in my city.

Plus, in a lot of areas, that's where the people who are the wrong color live.

Dillogic
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30 Jul 2015, 1:07 am

blauSamstag wrote:

No, he falls back after the first shot. He was not being dragged.

And at any rate, this guy was pulled over for not having a front license plate. It's not like he was a wanted killer.

Check out where he lands. He's several meters down the road soon after the shot. He couldn't have fallen that far.

Whatever the reason he ended up down the road would determine guilt here (trotting with the car or his hand was caught up in something; I think he reflexively held on, in any case).

Of course, but it doesn't really matter in regards to the actual shooting; that has its own codified law separate from what led up to it.

The officer shouldn't have tried to stop him from escaping (which led to split second decisions). The dude shouldn't have tried to escape too.

Hard to show murder, though.

auntblabby
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30 Jul 2015, 1:11 am

blauSamstag wrote:

You're not wrong about the war perspective. But in some cities, they resent the very existence of a poor neighborhood. They certainly do in my city. Plus, in a lot of areas, that's where the people who are the wrong color live.

why do you think they hate the colored/poor so much? 'cause their parents did?-
You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught

I wonder if it is that they fear that it could just as easily be themselves on the wrong side of fate.

LoveNotHate
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30 Jul 2015, 3:14 am

Dillogic wrote:

Check out where he lands. He's several meters down the road soon after the shot. He couldn't have fallen that far.

Yeah, it appears he was dragged.

He ends up near the oil stain farther down the road and much closer to the other car.

However, the prosecutor says:

“It is our belief that he was not dragged. If you slow down this tape you see what happens, it is a very short period of time from when the car starts rolling to when a gun is out and he’s shot in the head,” Deters said.

“He [Dubose] was simply, slowly rolling away,” Deters added.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... uel-dubose

Dillogic
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30 Jul 2015, 3:39 am

Personally, it looks like the initial impulse was from the rev immediately before the fatal shot, which made the car move several meters in a second or so, with the officer being dragged in some way. This is where the officer ends up after recovering.

The car continued on due to being in drive and from momentum of the initial rev.

But then, I'm just seeing what I see; it's obviously not as simple as this considering so many people see murderous fault in it.

LoveNotHate
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30 Jul 2015, 4:14 am

Dillogic wrote:

It would be useful to know the police department's policy.

- a car with no front license plate
- registered to another person
- driver with no driver's license
- driver has alcohol container
- doesn't follow police orders
- suspect tried to flee

Should the officer try to prevent such a person from fleeing?

The officer would seem to have a good defense if the police policy says to prevent this type of suspect from fleeing.

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