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cyberdad
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01 Jun 2019, 5:05 am

A couple has been granted extra time to sue a Gold Coast ultrasound clinic and doctor over their failure to diagnose their unborn daughter with Down syndrome.
The couple claims they would not have continued with the pregnancy if they had known, and have indicated they will seek damages for child-rearing costs of their daughter, who is now four years old.
The Supreme Court in Brisbane on Friday granted the couple an extension of time to launch their case against the medical professionals.
The court judgment reveals the couple visited the clinic in August 2014 for an ultrasound scan to determine whether the embryo had any chromosomal abnormalities.
https://www.news.com.au/national/queens ... 95744f2dee



magz
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01 Jun 2019, 5:20 am

Aren't the Lefties all for abortion? In my country, they claim they are.


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naturalplastic
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01 Jun 2019, 5:37 am

The case will probably only have one lasting legacy:from now on all ultrasound clinics will make you sign a waiver (forbidding you to sue them if the kid comes out less perfect than they find, and how you hope).



magz
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01 Jun 2019, 5:45 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The case will probably only have one lasting legacy:from now on all ultrasound clinics will make you sign a waiver (forbidding you to sue them if the kid comes out less perfect than they find, and how you hope).

Quite possible.
In my native language, we have a special word for this kind of document: dupochron
Could be loosely translated as ass-shelter.


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naturalplastic
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01 Jun 2019, 6:06 am

magz wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
The case will probably only have one lasting legacy:from now on all ultrasound clinics will make you sign a waiver (forbidding you to sue them if the kid comes out less perfect than they find, and how you hope).

Quite possible.
In my native language, we have a special word for this kind of document: dupochron
Could be loosely translated as ass-shelter.

:lol:

So English is not the only language that uses an idiom similar to "cover your ass". :lol:

Years ago I went through a job search phase. Applied at a zillion places. One place was Circuit City (and electronics store chain), and right there in the job application was a clause that you had to sign promising them that if you were hired that you would never sue them. I got hired by another company. But after that I had a special hatred for circuit city for having that extreme...."ass shelfer"...right there on their job application. Was kinda happy to see the bastards go out of business a few years later.



shortfatbalduglyman
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01 Jun 2019, 9:09 am

Plenty of people are like that

Some people believe abortion is "killing" and wrong under all circumstances

Republicans, Baptists

Simpleminded

Black and white thinking

Children with down syndrome take more time, $$, and energy to raise than children without down syndrome

All things being equal

The parents are not necessarily :evil: ableist :evil:


Although they could be


A couple of months ago , a post was in wrong planet:. "should you have been aborted"

And the moderator locked the post


:mrgreen:



cyberdad
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01 Jun 2019, 7:39 pm

The parents are simply reflective of the 95% of parents who take prenatal tests to terminate their downs fetus.

What is interesting in this story is the illustration of what's going on in the head of a NT parent when they they realise they could have tested using amniocentesis and when finding take out their anger/frustration on the clinic.

It's a sign of the future when prental tests become more advanced...will parents have the same reaction to autism?? my guess is they will...



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02 Jun 2019, 3:40 am

I think a partial or total cure is going to happen probably via ABA or gene editing after birth than pre natal. I understand autism is very complicated but the determination and ensuing money as well as the popularity of the anti vaxx movement shows the desperation for a cure is there. I think a lot of the autism acceptance is reluctant and based on the understanding a cure is not close at this time.

That it why it behooves the ND movement to change their elitist ”Aspie” image. Do I think the image is fair, not at all, but it is what it is. They have got to show that just because a child is severely autistic, that does not mean the person is doomed to be a lifelong burden to parents and who will be so miserable the humane thing to do is to make sure it does not happen.


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magz
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02 Jun 2019, 3:53 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think a partial or total cure is going to happen probably via ABA or gene editing after birth than pre natal. I understand autism is very complicated but the determination and ensuing money as well as the popularity of the anti vaxx movement shows the desperation for a cure is there. I think a lot of the autism acceptance is reluctant and based on the understanding a cure is not close at this time.

That it why it behooves the ND movement to change their elitist ”Aspie” image. Do I think the image is fair, not at all, but it is what it is. They have got to show that just because a child is severely autistic, that does not mean the person is doomed to be a lifelong burden to parents and who will be so miserable the humane thing to do is to make sure it does not happen.

I suppose we - as the humanity - still understand too little of autism to be anywhere close to what you describe.
ABA "cure" is just teaching children to mask their symptoms, it's not cure at all.

My bet is the most we can do about a real autism cure would be (possibly multiple) treatments transitioning a severily autistic child to the "aspie" functioning.


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cyberdad
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02 Jun 2019, 6:34 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I think a partial or total cure is going to happen probably via ABA or gene editing after birth than pre natal. I understand autism is very complicated but the determination and ensuing money as well as the popularity of the anti vaxx movement shows the desperation for a cure is there. I think a lot of the autism acceptance is reluctant and based on the understanding a cure is not close at this time.

That it why it behooves the ND movement to change their elitist ”Aspie” image. Do I think the image is fair, not at all, but it is what it is. They have got to show that just because a child is severely autistic, that does not mean the person is doomed to be a lifelong burden to parents and who will be so miserable the humane thing to do is to make sure it does not happen.


Gene mapping is a possibility if further evidence for the polygenic hypothesis for autism is uncovered. Assuming this is trialled and based on the current predictions that if you have one child with autism there is a 16% chance of another one (I think the predictive validity here needs more research) then parents may choose to do a double test i) downs syndrome and ii) autism/nuerodevelopmental disorders.

The problem for autism is that identical twin studies have demonstrated that one twin can have identical genes but be nuerotypical whereas the other twin can be severely autistic. This means parents could be aborting a completely viable fetus.



magz
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02 Jun 2019, 6:52 am

cyberdad wrote:
Gene mapping is a possibility if further evidence for the polygenic hypothesis for autism is uncovered. Assuming this is trialled and based on the current predictions that if you have one child with autism there is a 16% chance of another one (I think the predictive validity here needs more research) then parents may choose to do a double test i) downs syndrome and ii) autism/nuerodevelopmental disorders.

The problem for autism is that identical twin studies have demonstrated that one twin can have identical genes but be nuerotypical whereas the other twin can be severely autistic. This means parents could be aborting a completely viable fetus.

Could you please link the studies?
Because the ones I read concluded that the broader definition of autism, the higher correlation to genetics.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4996332/

With broad autistic phenotype included, genetic hederitability becomes the dominating factor.

It translates to: it's in the genes that the kid is somewhere on the spectrum but it's not in the genes to be severily autistic. It's totally possible that one of the identical twins is severily autistic and the other is "only" BAP.

Which, I think, should give some guidance about what is and what isn't possible about autism "cure".


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02 Jun 2019, 7:28 am

It is possible that this is just an attempt to get money and that they wouldn’t have actually terminated the pregnancy.

I would’ve been perfectly okay if my son had had DS. Friends of my parents adopted three children with DS, so they were often my playmates when I was growing up. They touched the lives of everyone they came in contact with.

Even if people are too disabled to work, they can still contribute a lot to society.


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magz
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02 Jun 2019, 7:58 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
It is possible that this is just an attempt to get money and that they wouldn’t have actually terminated the pregnancy.

I would’ve been perfectly okay if my son had had DS. Friends of my parents adopted three children with DS, so they were often my playmates when I was growing up. They touched the lives of everyone they came in contact with.

Even if people are too disabled to work, they can still contribute a lot to society.

I'm not so sure.
Polish abortion law is very restrictive for European standards but untli the most recent changes, this was one of the allowed cases.

My doc even stressed it before my first USG, that it would be legal to abort if the fetus turned up to have deformities indicating Down syndrome and that additional tests for it were also available.


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cyberdad
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02 Jun 2019, 8:02 am

magz wrote:
It's totally possible that one of the identical twins is severily autistic and the other is "only" BAP.


I think that's what I was alluding to, this is not an area well understood and I think the scientists are improvising to fill in the gaps



magz
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02 Jun 2019, 8:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
It's totally possible that one of the identical twins is severily autistic and the other is "only" BAP.


I think that's what I was alluding to, this is not an area well understood and I think the scientists are improvising to fill in the gaps

Improvising :?:

They're conducting and re-checking research to fill the gaps. That's how it all works.


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cyberdad
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02 Jun 2019, 8:36 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
magz wrote:
It's totally possible that one of the identical twins is severily autistic and the other is "only" BAP.


I think that's what I was alluding to, this is not an area well understood and I think the scientists are improvising to fill in the gaps

Improvising :?:

They're conducting and re-checking research to fill the gaps. That's how it all works.


It's a meta-analysis based on mathematical assumptions - read the contents of the paper - not primary research (the data is collected second hand from other people's research).