Happy MLK Day!

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For those of us who didn't vote for that orange bag of flaming... just remember, Monday is also MLK day, memorializing a man whose legacy will long outlast the next four years. Remember the man who saved America's secular and cultural soul.

Happy MLK day Kraichie

This calls for a celebration. Happy Heavenly Birthday.

I plan to celebrate by baking chocolate chip cookies. I made the batter last night and refrigerated it.

I didn’t vote for the orange man, but I’m not sure if I want to celebrate MLK, either. My opinion of him is hingeing on classified documents that will be released in 2027. With that being said, I’m thankful for all who played a role in the civil rights movement and for those who continue to fight for change.

Pretty ironic that that a racist criminal is officially president on this American holiday.

Just remember, all out heroes are still human, and are not perfect.

I do not expect perfection. I expect basic human decency.

It would seem the bar for "imperfections" in our leaders has been considerably lowered since at least 2016. Putting aside the elected clown leading the free world, a little bit of digging into the past of venerated leaders whether Washington, Jefferson, Churchill, MLK or Gandhi will reveal unsavoury details.

But despite the dissonance, leaders like MLK and Gandhi will be remembered and cherished for not just standing up to evil empires but also inspiring millions to have the bravery to advocate for social justice.

In any case strong leaders who made the world a better place (whether MLK, Gandhi, Malcolm X or even JFK) eventually paid the price. In that regard, it is a cold heart that chooses to diminish MLKs achievements and legacy.

It’s well-known that he cheated on his wife and was considered a “womanizer.” I don’t know much about his marriage, so I could possibly overlook that. Maybe their marriage was a sham or maybe they privately agreed to have an open marriage. Who knows.

I could forgive his plagiarism, including his extensive use of plagiarism in his dissertation (and elsewhere). It’s not something I ever did or considered doing when I was in college, but I try to be open-minded and recognize that people do make mistakes - sometimes mistakes involving intellectual dishonesty.

However, I could not forgive any complicity in rape. The fact that he was a charismatic leader, a sexist womanizer, and a person who proved himself dishonest seem to make the other allegations more likely to me. It also wouldn’t be the first time that a charismatic “hero” let people down in that way.

Obviously, he accomplished much, but I do think that, depending on what the released documents reveal, we might want to focus less on MLK and more on the civil rights movement as a whole. As it stands, we tend to overlook others who tirelessly fought for change. Perhaps a day honoring civil rights movement figures would be preferable to a day honoring one problematic individual.

Yes, he was important to the civil rights movement, and yes, he was assassinated, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s an individual I would want to venerate or honor, not that I venerate or honor anyone in that way now that I think about it.

there are millions of Americans who cherish his symbolism who would completely disagree with you. the civil rights movement which MLK spearheaded is more important than representing one group. Millions of disenfranchised non-black POC are in debt to him for their own citizenship. Almost every social action group who protest in the streets right up to today drew on his use of non-violent protest methods to enact change.

If a man who own hundreds of human slaves can have the capital of the USA named after him and if every American swears allegiance to the declaration of independence written by a guy (whose head is carved on Mt Rushmore) who engaged in vile acts on a child then that bar for tolerating flaws in our leaders was lowered a long long time ago.

I am certainly not supporting what MLK did behind closed doors, if he was alive today I would expect him to serve time in jail for his alleged crimes.

You seem to be equating the civil rights movement with one man. I don’t see things that way because there were many important figures in that movement, including some who deserve more recognition. I’m not denying that MLK was an important civil rights figure, but that doesn’t mean that he is someone I would want to honor or celebrate.

Not every American does.

I don’t venerate any of my country’s founding fathers and have never sincerely sworn allegiance to the flag OR my country. However, I might expect a bit more from a person living in the 20th century than in the 18th or 19th century. That’s more of a thought experiment because I don’t believe in revering anyone. If MLK was complicit in the rape, I would lose any remaining shred of respect I have for him. Likely, many others, especially women and/or those who experienced similar abuse, will feel the same.

Others are free to feel differently. I’m just saying that not liking Trump doesn’t mean that one has to like or celebrate MLK. Not doing so doesn’t mean that one is “cold-hearted,” either.

Yes, you have every right to question the man and hate his flaws. But having a space in one's heart for his legacy is to respect the people who had to fight tyranny in the USA (yes the US was a tyrannical evil place for millions of Americans, let's not pretend it wasn't). For those people its his legacy for alleviating catastrophic human suffering that was important.

you will find the modern Civil Rights movement still honour his legacy.
https://naacp.org/find-resources/histor ... er-king-jr
Even feminist icon Michelle Obama honours his legacy
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 235241813/
So does the National Civil Rights museum
https://www.civilrightsmuseum.org/dr-kings-legacy

therefore its his legacy that remains a potent symbol for civil rights. He is quoted by more people around the world (perhaps more than the Lord's prayer). that "People should be judged by their character, not by the color of their skin". that is a power that gives this man a national holiday and a statue in the Whitehouse.

That’s an absurd argument to make. I can respect “people who had to fight tyranny in the USA” and their legacy while not honoring, revering, or respecting one person. Not wanting to celebrate one individual doesn’t mean that I don’t respect his specific contributions to the movement, though, as I’ve already stated or implied in this thread. (“I’m thankful for all who played a role in the civil rights movement and for those who continue to fight for change.”)

I think we do a disservice to other historical figures and, perhaps, to our understanding of movements as a whole by focusing so much on specific individuals to the point of almost deifying them although that trend has begun to change in recent years which is a very good thing IMO. It seems likely to me that putting the focus on one person/one person’s legacy could potentially undermine the movement in some people’s minds depending on how serious his uncovered transgressions are.

Perhaps especially as a survivor of sexism, including of the extreme variety that was alluded to in recent posts, I can feel however I damn well feel about this topic, so don’t police my opinions or feelings. While we don’t know for sure that he was complicit in the rape and won’t until the documents are released in 2027, I have enough concerns about his other behavior to keep me from wanting to revere him in any capacity which is perfectly understandable under the circumstances…or it should be.

I didn’t say that everyone had to agree with me, but it would be cool if, on this particular topic, people would respect my right to have my own opinion without appeals to authority and talking down to me about his legacy as though I’m too stupid to know about it.

It's complicated. A legacy is a collection of deeds and what it represents (not the person). Wishing people happy MLK day is harmless.