Jesus was born in June

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/chris ... claim.html

Astronomers have calculated that Christmas should be in June, by charting the appearance of the 'Christmas star' which the Bible says led the three Wise Men to Jesus.
They found that a bright star which appeared over Bethlehem 2,000 years ago pinpointed the date of Christ's birth as June 17 rather than December 25.
The researchers claim the 'Christmas star' was most likely a magnificent conjunction of the planets Venus and Jupiter, which were so close together they would have shone unusually brightly as a single "beacon of light" which appeared suddenly.
If the team is correct, it would mean Jesus was a Gemini, not a Capricorn as previously believed.
Australian astronomer Dave Reneke used complex computer software to chart the exact positions of all celestial bodies and map the night sky as it would have appeared over the Holy Land more than 2,000 years ago.
It revealed a spectacular astronomical event around the time of Jesus's birth.
Mr Reneke says the wise men probably interpreted it as the sign they had been waiting for, and they followed the 'star' to Christ's birthplace in a stable in Bethlehem, as described in the Bible.
Generally accepted research has placed the nativity to somewhere between 3BC and 1AD.
Using the St Matthew's Gospel as a reference point, Mr Reneke pinpointed the planetary conjunction, which appeared in the constellation of Leo, to the exact date of June 17 in the year 2BC.
The astronomy lecturer, who is also news editor of Sky and Space magazine, said: "We have software that can recreate exactly the night sky as it was at any point in the last several thousand years.
"We used it to go back to the time when Jesus was born, according to the Bible.
"Venus and Jupiter became very close in the the year 2BC and they would have appeared to be one bright beacon of light.
"We are not saying this was definitely the Christmas star - but it is the strongest explanation for it of any I have seen so far.
"There's no other explanation that so closely matches the facts we have from the time.
"This could well have been what the three wise men interpreted as a sign. They could easily have mistaken it for one bright star.
"Astronomy is such a precise science, we can plot exactly where the planets were, and it certainly seems this is the fabled Christmas star."
Mr Reneke, formerly the chief lecturer at the Port Macquarie Observatory in New South Wales, added: "December is an arbitrary date we have accepted but it doesn't really mean that is when it happened.
"This is not an attempt to decry religion. It's really backing it up as it shows there really was a bright object appearing in the East at the right time.
"Often when we mix science with religion in this kind of forum, it can upset people. In this case, I think this could serve to reinforce people's faith."
Previous theories have speculated the star was a supernova - an exploding star - or even a comet. But Mr Reneke says by narrowing the date down, the technology has provided the most compelling explanation yet.

When do you think the celebration of Sol Invictus's birthday will end?

But I thought it was March or that's the theory I heard from astronomers.

omg, Jezus whas a mentaly crazy guy who saw ghosts and claims he whas the son of god -_-' (sorry but this is the real truth)<-- (this is my oppinion of what i think really happend, the day he whas born could be anyday)

most likely he never lived at all and the whole story was made up by people who made some kind of profit out of it. or they mixed several stories that where going around at the time or whatever.

that's a bit disrespectful

btw you can't say "real truth", truth is real by definition.

also, if something is "truth" why do you write that it is "your opinion"? opinions are not "truth", they are just judgements.

offtopic, sorry

QFT.

The planet Jupiter in astrology means expansion, growth, bounty, generosity/giving, fullness.

The planet Venus means love etc.

The planetary conjunction could thus be said to represent/indicate a new movement or discovery or understanding to do with love and expansion/growth.

So in the culture of the time, ( astrology was part of daily references ), anyone wanting to suggest that the main character in a story was going to bring love etc to people who followed him might have chosen this astrological background/setting.

As the gospel is a parable, not a historical document/record, a choice of such astrological significance will probably not have been accidental. What's funny is that the conjunction did correspond with a new spiritual movement which, to begin with at least, stressed love and giving, etc, in its teaching.

But Jupiter and Venus are in conjunction on a regular and pretty frequent ( as often as three times a year sometimes ), basis so I wonder what it was that made this one seem particularly special astrologically, apart from its visible shininess, ( because it was more than 15 degrees away from the sun and therefore its light was not swallowed up by sun light ).

Apparently it's very unusual to find Venus that far away from the Sun in the sky at the same time as in conjunction with Jupiter.

.

Last edited by ouinon on 09 Dec 2008, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

4 BC topic

Why not June? As a child I used to wonder how baby Jesus could stay warm in a manger on a cold December night, even if it was the Middle East.

The Queen celebrates her birthday in June, so she can have a birthday party outside.

Maybe two Christmasses, no three, as we cannot forget the Russian Orthodox on on January 6th.

Cute theory, yet without any practical application or relevancy to modern-day issues.

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Well...the celebration of Christmas does stem from an ancient pagan tradition of the winter solstice. Christian missionaries just incorporated these traditions into many of the pagan holidays kind of like the sun behind the cross known as the Celtic cross. The circle behind the cross represented the sun.

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""Astronomers have calculated that Christmas should be in June,
by charting the appearance of the 'Christmas star' which the Bible
says led the three Wise Men to Jesus.""

Wow...and this they spend time and money on beacuse..??
If they dont have anything better to do then this, then i
suggest they quit their jobs and go home. June, december,
jesus, santa, come on - this is riddicolous, who cares. It
makes me very sad to see grown people waste time like
this.

Correct.

I have two books at home explaining what the real meaning of traditions such as the Christmas tree and Yule Log are all about. If you think about it, decorating a tree has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.

Also, unless I am mistaken, 'three wise men' are not mentioned in the Bible. In fact didn't the (unspecified number of) wise men turn up at a later date?

December 25 is more or less an arbitrary date on which to celebrate the birth of Jesus. The Eastern and Roman Churches are not in agreement on that date, anyway.

If the first Christmas was actually in June, so be it. Does anyone know what is meant by the 13 Days of Christmas?

isn't it 'twelve days'? if so:

On the 1st day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
A Partridge in a Pear Tree
The partridge in a pear tree is Jesus the Christ, the Son of God, whose birthday we celebrate on December 25, the first day of Christmas. In the song, Christ is symbolically presented as a mother partridge that feigns injury to decoy predators from her helpless nestlings, recalling the expression of Christ's sadness over the fate of Jerusalem: "Jerusalem! Jerusalem! How often would I have sheltered you under my wings, as a hen does her chicks, but you would not have it so . . . ." (Luke 13:34)

On the 2nd day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Two Turtle Doves
The Old and New Testaments, which together bear witness to God's self-revelation in history and the creation of a people to tell the Story of God to the world.

On the 3rd day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Three French Hens
The Three Theological Virtues: 1) Faith, 2) Hope, and 3) Love (1 Corinthians 13:13)

On the 4th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Four Calling Birds
The Four Gospels: 1) Matthew, 2) Mark, 3) Luke, and 4) John, which proclaim the Good News of God's reconciliation of the world to Himself in Jesus Christ.

On the 5th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Five Gold Rings
The first Five Books of the Old Testament, known as the Torah or the Pentateuch: 1) Genesis, 2) Exodus, 3) Leviticus, 4) Numbers, and 5) Deuteronomy, which gives the history of humanity's sinful failure and God's response of grace in the creation of a people to be a light to the world.

On the 6th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Six Geese A-laying
The six days of creation that confesses God as Creator and Sustainer of the world (Genesis 1).

On the 7th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Seven Swans A-swimming
The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit: 1) prophecy, 2) ministry, 3) teaching, 4) exhortation, 5) giving, 6) leading, and 7) compassion (Romans 12:6-8; cf. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11)

On the 8th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Eight Maids A-milking
The eight Beatitudes: 1) Blessed are the poor in spirit, 2) those who mourn, 3) the meek, 4) those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, 5) the merciful, 6) the pure in heart, 7) the peacemakers, those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake. (Matthew 5:3-10)

On the 9th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Nine Ladies Dancing
The nine Fruit of the Holy Spirit: 1) love, 2) joy, 3) peace, 4) patience, 5) kindness, 6) generosity, 7) faithfulness, gentleness, and 9) self-control. (Galatians 5:22)

On the 10th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Ten Lords A-leaping
The ten commandments: 1) You shall have no other gods before me; 2) Do not make an idol; 3) Do not take God's name in vain; 4) Remember the Sabbath Day; 5) Honor your father and mother; 6) Do not murder; 7) Do not commit adultery; Do not steal; 9) Do not bear false witness; 10) Do not covet. (Exodus 20:1-17)

On the 11th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Eleven Pipers Piping
The eleven Faithful Apostles: 1) Simon Peter, 2) Andrew, 3) James, 4) John, 5) Philip, 6) Bartholomew, 7) Matthew, Thomas, 9) James bar Alphaeus, 10) Simon the Zealot, 11) Judas bar James. (Luke 6:14-16). The list does not include the twelfth disciple, Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus to the religious leaders and the Romans.

On the 12th day of Christmas my true love gave to me...
Twelve Drummers Drumming
The twelve points of doctrine in the Apostles' Creed: 1) I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. 2) I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. 3) He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. 4) He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell [the grave]. 5) On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. 6) He will come again to judge the living and the dead. 7) I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, 9) the communion of saints, 10) the forgiveness of sins, 11) the resurrection of the body, 12) and life everlasting.

in my oppinion it's just a song, and the contents mythical.


here's my take on 'the christmas star', it was yet another thing people who didn't know much took for a 'sign' of a higher meaning, the same as spilling you're dinner over your top doesn't mean god dislikes the top you're wearing.

Further to my previous post, I haven't read all of these, but they might help:
Christmas' pagan origins
Is Christmas Christian?
The Pagan History of the Christmas Tree

It's it the twelve days of Christmas?

Yes, its my oppinion that i find it the real truth that everyone who beleves in him is lieing to him/herself but im not saying there is no god i'm just saying that if jezus really whas hes son then he wouldn't have died so horrible, he would come back atleast once (its been 2000 years ago hes not comming back.) I just don't understand why he became so populair there is not even a tiny little bit of prove of him. But if now some one claims hes the son of god he goes to jail, doesn't sound reasonable (and no this isn't insulting because i'm only saying the logic of it, nothing more)