Any devout Christians?

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1) I addressed the proof issue in one of my previous posts.
2) God is not malevolent. Though it may not seem so, the Holocaust happened for a reason. We may not understand right now, and may never understand. However, think of how many of our decisions have been based on things because the Holocaust DID happen. Even the smallest decision has the ability to change the world.
3) Sin is in all people. Humans were made perfect but they chose to take fruit from the tree of knowlege rather than remain perfect. God allowed them the decision thus allowing them to choose for all future generations.
4) God did care though and sent His son to die of the cross to pay for all sins from the beginning to the end. All past, present, and future. All you have to do to be forgiven is believe.
5) Yes, the Jews did choose to walk in. They could have sat down and be dragged. They could have attacked the guards and be killed. Numerous other things could have happened. In the end, yes they did choose. Just because there was no good choice doesn't mean there was no choice at all.
6) Considering that God made humans do you really think he can be limited by it?

Last edited by Netish on 23 Oct 2007, 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

To H4x0r: Stop arguing with me. We're supposed to be on the same side.

To Netish: That's the most messed up thing I've read in my life.

JoyBob: I wasn't trying to argue with anyone, I just posted my opinions by answering some of your questions to Netish. I'm not exactly taking sides either though I'm an atheist so obviously I'm going to agree with you more over Netish.

I am Christian

God help me, I'm a Baptist.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

A) First of all I have indeed studied other religions. I have also studied psychology and ethics on my own and as part of school courses. So YES, I have looked outside my original religious teachings.

B) God DOES contact us all the time. Most of the time we don't even realize it. The people who do try to tell their experiences are often just dismissed. The Bible is completely true and there are many things that prove it. Since you seem so gung-ho on proof I will give you an example. They have found noah's ark.

C) If people claim to be Christians and don't believe in creation then they are lying. You cannot be a Christian if you do not believe God created the world. Adam and Eve were not banished from the Garden of Eden for having sex obviously you have no basis for any of your fradulent claims if you can't even get BASIC facts straight. They were banished for eating fruit from the tree of knowledge, the one thing God clearly told them NOT to do.

It is the weak minded who chose to judge without any basis or fact. True Christians are not afraid to think about death. It is often ENCOURAGED to think about it. Clearly you have not had anywhere near a solid religious teaching experience. I suggest before you make more mistakes, stupid assumptions, and state more untrue facts, that you do a little research. Christianity does not harm society, sin does, no human besides Jesus was, is or will be perfect. Obvioulsly you have some misguided notions about what Christianity is really about and have been exposed to flawed teachings by people who claim to be Christians but really are not. And please read my other posts because some of these things I keep having to repeat.

Lol, I forget where I've heard that before..


Your issue is your research ends at the Bible and your church which isn't research at all. I was born a catholic, I even went to catholic school it's all BS my parents forced on me. Your problem is when you think about death you ONLY think about God, Jesus and only Christian things which are all nonsense. I for one used to think like that, which was very bad of myself, to only look at one option and force myself to think it, that was abuse on my parents part, I'm very lucky and happy I woke up at such a young age. Anyhow, I'm a very open person, I've studied about 5 religions, (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Wicca) and I've done my research and I don't agree with anyone of them. I live in a christian-dominated house, I know everything about the religion, I've even read the ENTIRE bible, which most christians haven't even done that. Your like any other religious extremist, your right and everyone else is wrong right? Let me tell you something, If god exists he is definitely NOT perfect. God arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully (yes I stole that from a book I read it's a good quote though ). And I too seem to have to repeat myself:
"There is no proof, there's actually more proof there isn't a god then there is. For example religions like Christianity, Islam, Judism and possibly others believe that god is omnipotent (as in he can literately do anything). Now heres a question: Can god make a tree that he himself cannot destroy? If he does that and cannot destroy the tree he cannot do anything because he couldn't destroy the tree, and of course if he can destroy the tree he cannot make a tree that he can't destroy. Thus that proves that no being, even if there is a god can do anything which also proves one portion of those 3 religions wrong which from there I would start to question everything else that's either not possible or lies, which theres plenty more examples like the one above."
The most common Christian response to this question is either "But God would have no need to do that.", "But God wouldn't do that." or my favorite "God could do it if he really wanted to.". All of these are responses I've gotten from christians attempting to answer that question, all do not relate to the question at all or make any sense. The point is it's impossible for God to do what I said above whether he wanted to or not, thus omnipotence is impossible and thats one fact in those religions that aren't true, heres another interesting question: If God is the only one who can create, and he is Omniscience (which literately means he knows everything), he created Evil. Why is this? It's actually called the "Theodice Problem" google it for more info but I'll provide a short summary of it. If God made Angels and Heaven, wouldn't he already know he would send Satan to Hell and he would create Evil? And if God is the only one who can create, and he knows everything, it was his ideal from the start to create Evil. Another thing I myself find funny is the Adam and Eve story, according to you they had Sex and god never forgave them. Can all you christians stop having sex? If you can please do, we could use a decrease of your population plus you'd make your god happy.

And heres one last thing I personally want you to know, If it ever hurts you to read things against christianity, it's not good for you. And I really do recommend you look past that very flawed religion, and do *your* research, because I've done mine enough to know there is not a God. And I know I made this post long but I had a lot to say.

obviously you didn't actually READ my post. I have read other things than just the bible. And I said God did NOT banish Adam and Eve for having sex. Please read more carefully.

Yes, I HAVE read the entire bible.

Yes, we DO think about other aspects of death besides just Christian views.

If about the tree issue you are refering to the tree of knowledge, yes God could have destroyed it. That is not the point. The point is he gave humans free will to chose.

No, reading things against Christianity, and or reading about other religions does not hurt me. I have no idea where you got that theory from.

Finally as for the question of evil, I find it best to refer you to this book due to the length of the explanation. The stance of Kreeft and Tacelli, Handbook of Christian Apologetics, pgs 132-133.

I am a Christian

Apologetics have long since been discredited. I would suggest you look elsewhere.

How about I pull one of your tricks? Prove it.

Have a read of the Bible where you will find we (man), left Gods rulership deciding we can do quite well on are own without his help, thank you very much, the Bible also tells us we are now under the rulership of the Devil, thats why there is so much wickedness, wars and suffering.

What God did promise us is a King who would destroy the Devil and all who prefer his rulership whereupon "the Meek will inherit the earth", this is what the battle of Armeggedon is about, when Jesus fights for world rulership, then there will be no Holocausts, but at the moment, dont blame it on God.

Did you ever here we should pray for this event?
"Let thy Kingdom come"
"Let thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"

I prefer bashing christians, actually.

No I was not talking about that tree, I used tree as an example..

Let me rephrase the question so it's easier for you christian folk to understand:

Christianity, Islam and Judism all state God can do anything. Can God create something that he can't destroy? If he could do that he can't do anything because he can't destroy what he created, and if he can't create something he can't destroy he can't do anything either so thus Omnipotence (the ability to literately do anything) is flawd, and impossible because things like that even if there was a god, he would be unable to do. And like I said earlier:"The most common Christian response to this question is either "But God would have no need to do that.", "But God wouldn't do that." or my favorite "God could do it if he really wanted to.". All of these are responses I've gotten from christians attempting to answer that question, all do not relate to the question at all or make any sense. " May I ask you a simple question that I actually want you to answer without you using any of this christian BS? If you were to have a child, and not teach him anything, and raise him/her in the natural world, what religion would he be? The correct answer is he/she wouldn't have a religion at all, which is the way it's supposed to be. Christianity and every other religion are some of the worst/pathetic belief systems in our current society. One of the funniest things people do to me at my school when asked what religion I am and I say atheist, First about 75% will ask, "What's that?" then when I tell them, they say i'm going to hell, which proves how f*cked up society is. I just I don't have any religious beliefs and they say that, how pathetic, is every person in your religion *that* uninformed about anything other than this long chain of lies? You can't prove your religion other than using a 2000 year old fiction book with no facts, evidence, proof anything and you use it as a manual for life. How pathetic can it get? Oh yes there's more, you people try to force your religion on everything. Don't understand what I mean? Look why the religion still exists, thats why. And I suggest you read my other post again because you didn't reply to atleast half of it, then again you can't most likely so I can see why.