Arguing With NTs

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I'm a 14-year-old (probably) Aspie. I love to argue.

But, getting into an argument with NTs has its perils... I spent a long time trying to see how an analogy I used was faulty and they couldn't see how it would be valid. In the end they just concluded that it was a meaningless jumble of words and that I was of lesser "processing ability" which doesn't really affect anything in this case.

Conclusion? Arguing with NTs is generally difficult. I end up trying to bend my brain it ways it wasn't meant to bend and the NTs I'm arguing against gang up on the aspie.

First time I ever wanted to be an NT.

1. RULE- DO NOT
2. NO POLITICS EVER
3. DO NOT TELL THEM THEIR ARE WRONG they will catch up with you later.
4. If it is a matter of safety or anything important then do say so even if they think you could be wrong. Any emergency is important.
5. Talk only to people who respect you, make sure you do not talk to strangers who might not understand you. Better safe then sorry.

This would have been very useful information to take into consideration yesterday. I think I broke every single one of the uppercase rules.

AND NO JOKES TOO. Unless it is un intensional in which case you can not do anything about that. NTs will laugh anyhow. Even if you make it clear to them that it was not a joke.

I don't think I made any jokes... But people kept on saying things that indicated confusion with what I was saying so I kept clarifying and I guess that made me sound like a broken record.

That is ok. Repetition does not hurt anyone.

I'm arguing with the same two people yet again.

Some people (me) never learn.

The most important point to bear in mind is that arguments are never ever really about their explicit subject. They’re always about enforcing the pecking order or a similar hierarchy. If your status is lower than that of your oponent (the most likely case for an aspie arguing with an NT by far), you will end up worse off than you were at the beginning. Who is actually right doesn’t matter in the least, and neither does logic. Nobody will even acknowledge it when it would favor you.

War is not about who is right, but who is left.

How to Argue:

1. Choose an argument that you know you can win. Don't get drawn into arguments for which you have no expertise on one side or the other; don't get drawn into arguments that are based solely on belief or opinion no matter which side you're on ("My Jesus is better than your Jesus!"); and don't ever allow yourself to be goaded into expressing an opinion on a topic that really does not interest you.

2. Know you are right. Don't just think it, don't just believe it, know it. Check your facts, and have citations ready. Even if your opponent is never convinced, you will be able to retain your confidence and dignity, and take some pride in knowing that you have performed your due diligence.

3. Know what the opposing arguments are. Is the opposition armed with evidence or mere beliefs? Is the evidence fact-based or faith-based? Are the facts valid and testable, or are they invalid testimonials? Does testing the facts support the argument? If your opponent is arguing from belief, with faith-based "evidence" and invalid testimonials that really don't support his or her position, then you are likely to have a lively and lengthy discussion without every winning your opponent over to your point of view.

4. Remain calm. The first side to lose its cool is the side that makes the most mistakes, and is also the side that usually loses. If you find that the argument is getting heated, or that the opposition seems to know how to "push your buttons", withdraw until you cool down and let others who share your point of view take over.

5. Present your side in a logical manner. This goes along with #4. Lead with the premise ("I think that if X and Y then Z"), and then present your reasons (known facts).

6. Take note of the inconsistencies and contradictions in the opposing argument. These will be useful when deconstructing their arguments, and when examining your own. Have you made any of the same mistakes (factual errors, fallacious reasoning, et cetera)?

7. Never make the same mistakes (See #6) as your opponent. This invites the dreaded "Ad Hominem Tu Quoque" attack ("You do it too!"). The argument will soon deteriorate into a downward spiral of accusations and counter-accusations.

8. Never argue past a stand-off. If you find the you and your opponent are simply repeating what you've already said, then you're at a stand-off, and neither side has won. Walk away.

9. Try to get your opponent to identify with your side on an emotional level. This is a tactic that is used be sleazy salespeople, shifty politicians, and defense lawyers, because it works more often than not in getting your opponent to concede or compromise, especially when done subtly.

10. Be gracious in both defeat ("Oh! I never thought of it that way; thanks!") and victory ("A lot of people make the same mistake").

I almost always win arguments.
Because I contradict people so much during an argument, that the person(s) I'm arguing with usually end(s) up telling me "f**k you, discussing with you is impossible, I surrender".

That isn't winning an argument.

That's not winning an argument - that is driving your opponent away.

It's like an abusive woman getting the house in a divorce settlement, and then declaring that she "won"; or a bully declaring victory because none of the younger kids go anywhere near him; or a baseball team leaving the field because the other team is using live ammunition.

In an argument, winning is not about forcing the opposition into leaving - it is actually about being right.

Or, at the very least, make people think you are right. Admit it people, you keep arguing even after you realize you are wrong.

No, I don't.

I guess you're right.
Ahw well. It changes nothing in the end for me.

Michael Gilbert's book How to Win an Argument made it fun for me. Now I just insist that the other guy prove his point before he starts jumping all over the place. If they make a claim, then say "What's your basis for that?" Gilbert explains all the logical fallacies that you can point out. It's an easy read.

Intellectual honesty is hard to come by these days. People have a lot competing for their attention and rarely have time or energy to learn deeply. So they pass around handy prepackaged sound bytes found on the news, bumper stickers, and t-shirts.