Homosexuality - "coming out the closet"

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Thanks. I've been tempted to give the phone number a try, but even if I were - what would I say? The e-mail on that webpage doesn't work, what if the phone number doesn't either? Thanks for trying, but I'm not sure where I'd be able to find the privacy and/or muster up the confidence to phone. Worse would be if it was a general phone number and I was phone them mentioning about everything. Quite honestly, I have no idea what to do at the moment. Phoning them is an option, but I have fears of what they might say, if it doesn't work or if parents were to find out (e.g. phone bill).

Anyway, I forgot to mention, this friend from the Original Post argued and "fell out" with his best friend today (the one who he often touches and sits on the knee of etc.), somewhat joking with him by locking him out of the computer room they normally go into on Breaktime.

In these sorts of situations, I tend to be a complete and utter insensitive idiot unintentionally. First thing I said to him: "Guess what. I've heard about you and [best friend's name]". He sits still - giving me that shocked look and, before I realised I'd made a mistake, I go on: "You know, the one who you locked out of the computer room today and abandoned you...". After about 10 more seconds, I quickly apologise and he says it's fine. I mean, I know those with Aspergers tend to lack empathy, not noticing social cues or facial expressions, but I feel truly guilty for that.

Anyway, we watched a video (It was, what many would call, a "doss" lesson), and he was perfectly content. Afterwards, another friend of mine made a joke-y, sarcastic comment about me. The friend I presume to be gay stuck up for me, arguing at the other friend. The other friend argued back, until I broke them up and told them to calm down for a moment. I told the presumably gay friend that, although I appreciated the standing up for me, it was more or less creating a mountain out of a molehill and I didn't mind the comment.

For the rest of the lesson, he was trying to hide back tears... I need to know what that tells you, because it sure says alot to me...

Sorry I haven't posted for a few days: I had technical problems. Now, I'm actually not sure what that might mean...from what I can see he was probably already upset about what happened with your other friend, and so he got more upset at the comment about you than he would usually. Your behaviour can't have helped, but there's no need to feel guilty about something you can't help. Believe me, I've made plenty of mistakes like that; it's the kind of thing where you realise just after you say it, right?
Of course, I don't know why he would actually want to cry unless this was part of a bigger problem...maybe he feels he's growing apart from you or the other friend?

If I had come into this discussion earlier, I would have said not to have any hope with this boy. Now, I think you know that there is very little hope that it will work out. If he's anything like the boy I had a crush on when I was 14, he will never change.

I pretty much "fell in love" with this boy who was the first boy I was emotionally attached to. First we flirted (although I'm very bad at recognising flirting, but it was something like that). Then he found out I was gay and felt homophobic towards me (just as I had done with him before I knew I was gay because he acts gay and I act straight ("act" meaning stereotypical personalities)). Then he fancied me for a bit and got into bed with me. Then he hated me and didn't want to do most sexual activities. And with a few more sexual encounters, it's just always been the same. He pursues activity with me, denies any homosexuality and guilt trips me to the high heavens. Despite my very bad sexual frustration, I have had to overcome that and refuse any contact with him. I am not going to be a dirty slag for him to "have fun" with.

Anyway, I was in exactly the same position as you are when I was 14 and now 18 it still goes on. Well, it did until recently when I decided not to give him any more chances.

As for the stuff about phases and changing sexuality. As I always did, don't deny the possibility of it being a phase. You can be very sure you are gay and still be able to accept that it's a phase. It just means you are more open minded and relaxed with the whole thing. I believe people don't "change" their sexuality. I think sexuality is very much built into a person. It is your perception of your feelings that is important. That's why that's going on with that boy. He probably is gay, but he probably won't accept. You're lucky in that you realise you are gay. But don't feel like you cannot later realise you are straight, because maybe you are. Who knows what you'll feel in the future. Some people cope with this by insisting that they do not want a label, that they don't fit into any category and that things change.

And your parents. My advice is; don't listen to them. If you're like me, you'll have a lot of respect for your parents and what they say. I don't advice changing this, however you need to realise that they are not feeling what you are feeling and can therefore not have an accurate opinion on the matter. They know you well, but they may be slightly selfish by saying what they say on the issue. They probably want it to be a phase. Don't be angry with them, but just remember that you know best.

Lastly, on the community. I think that anyone out in the community has a certain stereotypical personality and if they don't, they change to fit in with everyone else. If you find out how to meet other gays that aren't stereotypically gay, tell me.

Also, can I add, your age does not mean you can't understand what is going on or what you feel. A lot of people think that unless you are 18 or older, you can't realise your sexuality and those who claim they have when under 18 must have been influenced and made gay. I must admit, this has been quite useful for hiding my sexuality. But it simply isn't true.

My apologies, everyone. I forgot to check this post, thinking it hadn't been updated.

Could be but, in a way, I'm currently trying to grow apart from him. As mentioned in another of my topics, the whole group speak to me in a basic, belittling manner. Even back then, I had put my plan to lessen the friendship into action. Maybe that could have been the result, but I'll never know...



That is what I have realised. 'Twas obviously, but hidden from my much blinded eyes. I know now, obviously, that he will never change (and, as mentioned above where I quoted Pigeon's post, neither will the group of friends he is part of). Not to mention, he had neither interest in me nor a single thought in his head that I was gay.



Offtopic: Would "Nice Jacket", in your eyes, be considered flirting?

On-Topic: Really, it is his loss - is it not? Many a time I see myself being used and, like you have, I realise it and try to put a stop to it.



Word seems to have gotten out a tad bit more since I last posted. Now, there are currently 5 people whom know (2 of which work at the school, 1 of which is a student there). I think it's a tiny bit too late to still say (at least to them) "Oh, nevermind, it's just a phase". Not to mention, I'll find it far too hard to convince myself that.



True. The problem is, although I know that I know better, I feel almost compelled to listen to them. However, as said above, I have mentioned to a grand total of 4 people - and that is all.



I declare on this very post that I wish to do so. That's actually the motive both behind posting this topic and browsing a multitude of forums. So, should we further discuss this in PM? Or continue posting in the topic?



Agreed. It isn't true in the slightest, in my eyes. If it were, then I would consider myself a rather strange exception - as nothing significant has happened in my adolescence (nor previous) to give me this train-of-thought/view. If anything, more has been done to convince me to be straight.

That's really good that you recognise that. For me, I only became friends with him because of fancying him, so I always felt getting to know him better as a friend was a good potential alternative. It wasn't.

No. Haha. Unless you were rubbing their chest and biting your lip when you said it.

Of course it is! You're an intelligent, sensible guy who's probably the best guy he could ever have. But, you have to understand that it's his choice to do what he's doing. We all have to make our own decisions in life and if he wants to deny himself the opportunity, that's up to him. You can't help him choose otherwise. Something I always thought I could do and got repeatedly accused of "brainwashing" for. I truly felt I was trying to help him, as a friend, understand his feelings and make it easier for him by helping him to accept himself for who he is. He thought I did it just to force a situation to get a boyfriend. Silly boy.

I'm not saying that you should treat it like a phase, I'm just saying that you don't have to fear that there would be anything wrong with later in your life "coming out" as straight. Nobody would make it difficult for you to say you're straight, tomorrow or in 40 years time. People will only make it difficult for you to say you're gay.

I think you said earlier that you think seeking advice from your parents on the issue is not a viable option. I've never come out to my parents and I don't think they would want to give much advice on the matter anyway, because they would want me to have my own experiences. Parents will always fight for the best for their children and when I say what I say about them being selfish (a strong accusation, I admit), I mean they probably believe that encouraging you towards believing it's a phase etc. is best for you because of their own beliefs and understanding of homosexuality.

Can I ask something else about what you said earlier? How are they blaming your sexuality on your Asperger's?

If you want to ask me anything specifically in a PM, feel free to, but at the moment, I am totally confused about this issue.

I feel exactly the same. Unfortunately, this is one of the many preconceptions about our community that people need to be educated to understand the reality of. And also this unfortunately includes people in our own community, which doesn't help.

I was actually friends with him beforehand. It was only upon hitting puberty (around the age of mid 12's) that I began to develop a crush on men, and at late 13/early 14 I began to crush on him. The thing that annoys me most, though, is in one of my former posts: He speaks to me differently than others... If something (anything) from name-calling to being smacked on the back of the head were to happen, he would always step in and say "That's harsh!". The latter smacking I can put up with, but every single time I am name-called, even in jest, he over-reacts... After asking other friends, it seems only me that he does this to.



Then I have no idea what subtle flirting is, then.



The thing is, this friend of mine has no idea that I'm gay. Therefore, he has no real idea there is an opportunity. Sure, I've asked him if he, himself, were gay - but he merely believes that I'm so stupid/ignorant that I wouldn't know anything about such topics (thus, he has no idea of what I'm suggesting by that comment)... [sarcasm]Yes, because that is most certainly how I got into the top classes academically...[/sarcasm] However, he has a small reasoning behind that thought. I'm not the most street-smart person there is. More accurately, I am currently living inside a bubble. A constantly protected, always supervised bubble with little freedom.



I would say true, but then there's the fact of all the people I'd have affected by saying I was gay and all the help people would try/make the effort to give me because of which. For example, one of those teachers that I mentioned to are actually searching up as much as they can on the subject to help further advise me.



True. I agree. Then again, they fail to either acknowledge it nor research it. Again, it is probably just their conflicting beliefs.



It's just very minor and vague, to be honest. I won't be able to elaborate, but what they said was something along the lines of: "Oh, it could just be a phase, it might be due to your Aspergers,"etc. They aren't the most knowledgeable people to ask about Aspergers, so I would assume they're either naturally assuming or using it as a way of comforting themselves.




No worries. It's just your above post of something along the lines of "If you want to meet non-stereotypical gays, PM me" that made me wonder whether or not you had found a solution or, at the very least, place I could find acceptance.



The problem is, ofcourse, how to educate the uneducated that do not wish to receive education...

Do the other friends think that you like him, seeing as how you have asked them so much about him? He maybe feels like he should stick up for you because of your Asperger's. Does it annoy you or do you like it?


Me neither


But he does have the opportunity to accept his sexual preferences and have a friend who is accepting of him for it. If you've been asking him about being gay, presumably you've been nice about it and quite obvious to him that you would be ok with it.

My boy didn't know I was gay and when he found out about it, he got excited and that's when his confusion went spiraling out of control. It may be tempting to give him a chance to pursue something else with you, but it's more likely than not that it will backfire. And plus, you'll get plenty more opportunities with guys in the future.


They'll still know they will have helped at the time, it wouldn't be wasted. It's very similar to people on this forum who are not diagnosed with Asperger's and find out themselves that they have it. They learn as much as they can about it and seek as much help as they can about it. I've read a thread before from someone who felt really bad because they had "lied" to everyone because when they went for diagnoses, they weren't diagnosed. It turned out that most people commenting agreed that this person had Asperger's and that the specialist testing them was wrong. Anyway, you can understand why people might feel like that about Asperger's, but none of it's wasted because even in the unlikely event that someone really thinks they have it and don't, at least they've learned a whole load of stuff about themselves. And nobody had hard feelings.


I think you should get them more clued up about it. I'm not sure that I would be much use working for these LGBT organisations because I would probably just say to people, "Being gay is exactly the same as being straight, except you like members of the same sex instead of opposite sex." That's of course true and it would be wonderful if everyone viewed it like that because then there wouldn't be a problem, but I guess there's more to it than that because people don't view it like that. You could start with getting them to read this-

LGBT parents

There's quite a bit out there for parents to read to help them understand, because it's not easy for them either!

I must say, I'm really proud of you for just doing it and telling them. I know you still have your Dad to tell, but I'm sure you'll manage. I wish I could bring myself to tell mine.


Sorry, I mislead you there. I meant that if you find out how to find them then please tell me. I guess the only way is online. But, of course, it's already really difficult to do at your age even without the difficulty of finding a site for the right people. Kiwi has probably told you about his forum "Gay Aspie". It's good but I don't think there's many teens on it. I tried by tracking people down on MySpace who I thought looked and sounded like the kind of guy I would like. It went quite badly. I guess the only other way is if you're lucky and find people that you meet in any special interests you have. I don't do anything socially with my special interests, so I miss out there.



Exactly. Making it a legal requirement would be good. I'm a strong believer in LGBT education in school. I did not get any until I was about 15 nearly 16. Even then, it was extremely minimal and totally crap. I think it involved watching a stupid Channel 4 schools documentary and making lots of jokes about it in the class before moving on to something else. I realised after I left school just how homophobic my school was.

The other friends see it purely as me trying to get to know him better (in a friendly way). Due to the fact that I spend breaktimes inside, I rarely get to see them much except for lessons. They know nothing of my ulterior motive, it seems. As for the sticking up for me, I'm certain it's the Aspergers. I've made it fully clear to him on numerous occasions that "creating a mountain out of a molehill for criticising someone, merely because they called me a minor name (either in jest or not in jest), is not necessary". I go into great depth about why I feel the fact that he's standing up for me to be somewhat belittling (he never stands up for anyone else in such a way) and how the wording of when he does stand up for me is also belittling (he says, for example, "That's harsh!" instead of any friendly comments. In my eyes, "that's harsh!" sounds more like he is taking pity on me... ).



I've been accepting and obvious to the point of appearing to the public as a LGBT supporter (I'm so good at acting that they assume me as straight, but they know I'll be the first person to criticise my friends for them saying "That's so gay!"). Basically, every homophobic comment I argue against (most specifically, in his presence) and, when asking, I had reassured him constantly that, yes or no, I wouldn't mind. The thing that confuses me, however, is that he touches up others and claims it to be "for fun"; and winks at me constantly...




True. Thank you. However, that still wouldn't stop me feeling some guilt - but thanks to your enlightening comment, the guilt I feel will be alot less.



I really need to update my original post. Long story short, I got my Mum to tell my Dad. He was, surprisingly enough, the most accepting. As for my parents, I've previously tried to inform them - but they've just shrugged it away and regarded it as a phase regardless. However, I will give it a second try.



I've joined various websites in an attempt to find those I can relate to - Including (but not limited to) Queer Youth, The GYC (Gay Youth Corner), Gay Aspie among a few others. All to little avail. The closest person I could find to relate to, other than yourself, was a 16 year old Aspie on GYC. Even then, he had no real answers for the situation.



Even now, I would've lacked any education on the subject had I not searched it up on my own initiative. Not to mention, I do have a slight hatred towards the Catholic Church's reaction towards Gays... More accurately, how they should be "condemned to Hell". According to the Old Testament, so should every widow who lacks a child and refuses to mate with her dead spouse's brother and father until she conceives a child. MARK 12:18-27

That does sound really annoying, especially after you've told him how you felt. Sometimes at school, people would say things like, "Awww leave him alone," etc. when people were making fun of me. During these times, I never had a clue what was going on because it would usually be groups of people saying things too quickly and I would fall behind or not understand. But, usually people would just join in So, I kinda guess I would have wanted people sticking up for me more because I was/am hopeless at standing up for myself. I'm good at arguing points, but I'm easily to take advantage of.


Are you acting or do you naturally appear "straight"? I've often wondered that about myself. I think I'm pretty much stereotypically straight, although I couldn't say for sure because I'm usually hiding my sexuality. I do act when I have to say things like, "Fwwooaa, she's got a lovely pair!" etc etc. Although, I have been switching between gay and bi, I've never really been attracted to most women and now I'm totally going off them. As I've grown up, I've had to learn the hard way which women straight NT guys find attractive in order to fit in.

I can't stand when people say things are gay. My brother does it all the time. I just want to tattoo the words "I am gay" on his face.

I take it when you say "touches up", you don't mean touching sexual areas. Anyway, I knew a lot of guys at my school, too, who pretended to be gay. There was one guy who always used me for his gay remarks. He always latched on to my childish side and poor social skills by patronising me. Basically, our whole interaction was fake. It was like I had to be Alan Davies whilst on QI. I just had to play along with it and put up with it and it turned out to be a fairly good thing because he would stick up for me. But yeah, the whole winking and stuff, it's silly and it's to make people feel uncomfortable.


No problem, I'm glad I can help. That's if you decide differently. I went on and off guys and on and off girls for ages, but I'm still gay and it's pretty much settled. Just be prepared for it to confuse you now and again. You said earlier about hating you being gay. Up until quite recently, I would always have days now and again where a great explosion of realisation would hit me. "Sh*t, I'm gay! I'm actually gay!" I would always think back to when I was younger and what I thought it would be like to be gay and I would think, "No, that's not me."


That's brilliant. I think these things in life always seem like they're going to be worse than they actually turn out to be.

Good luck.


I never joined them because I couldn't be bothered and didn't have much faith in them. How come the 16 year old wasn't any help?


Thanks to Nick Griffin whilst on Sky News, I'm now informed that children in England are being taught about homosexual practices in their sex education at the age of 5. I don't even think I was taught any sex education until around 9 or 10, let alone homosexual education. However I must say, Nick Griffin is quite frequently inaccurate with his facts.

I avoid any contact with the Catholic Church as best as I can (despite having visited the Vatican twice ) If they don't bother me, I won't bother them. I do, however, feel quite strongly about them. There's an LGBT radio show in my area that I used to listen to when I was able to stop myself loosing the plot with anger and some of the things that were quoted as being said by some priests were horrendous. Not to mention the abusing of young boys. As for your last statement, all I can say is; that's disgusting.

I, myself, would actually accept being stood up for if I was made fun of. The problem here, however, is that he stands up for me for the most pathetic, ignorable things - such as someone walking down the corridor lightly smacking me across the head when walking by, or another friend making a sarcastic comment in jest... If I was being openly bothered in front of the class and he were to stand up for me, then fine, as I wouldn't be able to stand up for myself very well. the problem arises when he stands up for me in easily ignorable instances.





If anything, I would say I probably appear most as Asexual. I look away from any nudity scenes whatsoever, refuse to answer and "Who do you fancy?" questions and have even been suspected of being asexual by fellow peers. For clarification, Asexual in humans means that you have no passion for either gender. Not that you make love to yourself, as it's definition in plants is.



My brother literally comes out with comments like "Why do gays always feel the need to come out? I mean, you don't see any straights going 'Hello, everyone! I'm straight!'". It's annoying as annoying can be. His most recent comment was when we were playing a game. Some game where it's more or less "create your own super powers". He came out with "Why don't you give yourself the power to give everyone you touch AIDS or HIV?"... I picked him up by the scruff of his neck and threw him at the bed. He feigned ignorance and said he didn't know about the former advertisements "AIDS, Kills Gays dead". I went right up into his face and said that if he ever came out with any more of those snide comments, he wouldn't live to see the next day. That certainly kept him quiet.



By "touching up", I'm referring to light stroking of the legs, arms and chest. The worst part is that he does this to every one of his friends but me (yes, even the people who feel annoyed by it). Oh, how I long to be considered "one of them"; but fear that their representation of Aspergers is preventing me.



The thing is, at the moment for me, I just disregard all those thoughts of when I was younger and all the stereotypes. That is, infact, just what they are. Stereotypes. To say all gay males are feminine but muscular is like saying all straight males are macho masculine but lack muscles. That is, quite frankly, incredibly untrue. There is a large range of people whom are gay, are there's no real way to narrow it down. If you ever think that, think "10% of people are gay, so, who in my former classes would I consider to be gay? If there were 30 people in my class, I should be able to pick at least 3". If you can pick three, i would then try the statement "50% of people have claimed to have had sexual experiences with the same gender during their teenage years".



Thank you, however, I'm still hesitant to come out to fellow pupils, due to fear of if word gets out.



He replied to the post I'd made on the subject, but said he could only offer his sympathy - as he is in a similar situation himself.



I fail to see how Nick Griffin would find out about what Labour's plans to do are, or what they have done - to be honest. As you say, his facts are many a time inaccurate and, like yourself, I only received first information about Sex Ed. at some point between the ages of 9-12.



I hate the way that the Catholic Church feel the need to omit old laws such as the one above (which was in the Old Testament of the Bible, chapter MARK), yet fail to omit the ones criticising homosexuality, such as:



Now, I am infuriated at how they had the ignorance to omit some insane rubbish to protect the hides of everyone who is heterosexual from "God's Holy Wrath", but clearly be biased enough to leave all this anti-gay propaganda in!

On the other hand, upon further study, I found this. It seems that there are two extremes to the belief. The Catholic's extreme, and this extreme.

That's interesting. So is that because you don't want to look at girls or are you generally avoiding looking at nudity of either sex? I did know that, however, I did not know the definition used for plants.


That's good you can keep him in his place. Unfortunately, both my brothers are much older than me, so I've had to ignore it. But, they have never known that I'm gay, so it would probably be worse. I'm just as concerned about sly silly jokes as I am anything else because it would all really p*ss me off. My parents would enjoy having a pop at me now and again, too.


So, because you have Asperger's, he feels that he shouldn't touch you as well and should wink at you instead? Hmm. Just think, it won't be long before things move on and you change friends. You'll be able to fit in much better and have a much better time with different people. You'll think why you ever wanted to be accepted in their group

At school, I tried to get into as many groups as I could all at the same time. It meant I was known by plenty people, but I was never properly in any group. It got messy as well when the groups would clash (metaphorically) as I would have to detach myself from them. I've never really been properly accepted in a group. The closest I got was a group of three of us who were all quite abnormal but it was always two teaming up on one and I was usually the one. NT people love to use other people to show off their own qualities and harm them in doing so. I've NEVER understood that and I don't think I ever will.


I wouldn't say that I was taking my former thoughts seriously. I just mean that I would think, "Oh, I'm actually in this category, this is how people will think of me forever." It was only ever short times and I would remind myself that I am still who I was before.

That's what makes it so difficult for us gay aspies because not only can we not recognise clothing choices or body language very well, but we struggle to socially interact in order to ascertain whether someone is not straight or straight. Especially when you are with friends or relatives or acquaintances who don't know your sexuality as you therefore can't say, "I'm gay," and see if they reply that they are. However, I must say, I don't think it's easy as some people make out for anyone. It's difficult for everyone and that's why we all have to hope that society changes more! Especially when you are with friends or relatives or acquaintances who don't know your sexuality as you therefore can't say, "I'm gay," and see if they reply that they are.


I think you'll like my story of coming out to friends. I DESPERATELY needed to tell somebody and I chose who I thought would be able to accept it the best. This actually was, and the reason for her suitability was most certainly not because of the following fact, my only ex-girlfriend. She was in my art class and I had the opportunity to in class because her best friend was not there to say his usual comments like, "Why do gays feel the need to parade?!" even without any prompt for talking about that subject. So, I took my opportunity and tried to tell her. I started the lesson by saying to her that I had something to tell her. I hesitated for a whole lesson trying to tell her. I had the most heavy breathing I think I've ever had and I felt sick. By the end of the lesson, I communicated to her by hints to lead her to the conclusion that I fancied this boy. Then she asked if I was gay and I said yes and from that moment onwards, it was fantastic. I felt great. The funny thing was, I had told her the name of the boy and he had the same name as her boyfriend!! So she went away thinking her ex-boyfriend fancied her current boyfriend I later clarified the issue by text.

I felt much better about telling friends, hence why I have not told my family. They were all very trust worthy and true to their word that they would not tell anyone. I got more confidence and told more people as time went by. Even people I really didn't expect to accept it accepted it better than any. The only problem I had was with a girl that was madly in love with me (probably still is) who felt it was her right to tell her big group of friends. I was annoyed but they also kept it secret. By the time I was 16, the whole school was talking about it and I was potentially leaving after the summer if I got a job and I decided I didn't care if I didn't get it, I wasn't going back. BUT...that was because I had told too many people. Part of me probably wanted the whole school to know. So if you keep it to a small number, there won't be any problem. Just choose wisely!!


What is it exactly that you want? Do you want to find a few friends online or a group to join online or some friends to meet face to face to talk, or friends to go out and do things with or a big group to join and do activities with? Just want to clarify your definition of "gay community" in this instance.


Do you know why they left it out? They have a special understanding of LGBT people. They call it all a "lifestyle". Apparently, this is the problem of people, not only committing homosexual acts, but also a whole host of other "modern" things which the Catholic Church disapprove of. And it's this group of "lifestyle choice" people (i.e all LGBT people) who have moved society in such a way that the modern world is so wrong and has turned people away from the Catholic Church. They have a point, I suppose because if not for researching homosexuality, you would probably not have found the other ridiculous quotes from the bible. Excuse me if I'm being presumptuous and you already knew about it.

Of course, it's also a great excuse to use the religion to back up your argument against something you don't understand and know nothing about.

Both, really. I don;'t want to look at girls naked because I find that repulsive, but if I were to view male naked scenes I might be seen as gay. On the otherhand, I dislike seeing nudity as a whole - as I think of nudity as more of a private thing - and, thus, regardless of gender I would refuse to look at it for that reason also.



Me and my brother are often found provoking each other with insults, but he knows that when it comes to gay issues - it cuts so deep, he just shouldn't go there. What's worse is that his views are slightly religious (like my parents), and very anti-gay-pride. He's not anti-gay exactly, but he hates it that gays always feel the need to publicise themselves (he thinks they should "stay hidden" which, now that I think about it, could be considered anti-gay...).



True. The main thought is, I'm in the prime of my youth, and all I really want to someone I can befriend and stay friends with throughout my school years and after - not only because by doing that I'd get to know them well, but also so that I have some outside contact I can use as I set out into the big, bad world, so to speak (more accurately, in a non-selfish way - Someone I can use to meet other people, and invite to parties etc.).



True. Quite frankly, it was very similar to me. I wanted to be friends of the many instead of the few, so I alternated seating arrangements with two groups. Upon realising that, by doing so, I wasn't getting to really know either group that well (not to mention, I was struggling with their conflicts); I had to make a choice - Join the group I'd known longest, or the group I liked best (and felt most welcome in). I made the wrong choice by choosing time over compatibility... Ever since, I've been given many options to get more involved with this other group - but fear I may lose the other friendship and, thus, decline...



Agreed. I couldn't put it better myself. As for the comment about clothing choices etc., I've found myself constantly trying to search up "Gay Clothing" etc. as an easier way to identify those that are gay. Obviously, to no avail. "Is there any subtle hints to tell that a person is gay by their clothing?", "Gays wear Jeans", "Well, doesn't everyone else (other than myself)?", "True.".



Excellent story.

I can just imagine the tension it would have caused if the two people (her boyfriend and your crush) were the same person.

That aside, I doubt I can trust anyone enough to tell them. Well, there is this one friend, but even he I find using very mild homophobic jokes to "fit in". He isn't a homophobic person, but he does make a few homophobic references - just for the sake of it/just to show-off to friends.



The worry for me is that I'm a very, very paranoid person. There's only 2 real people I consider true friends. One (who is in a year above me) I've told, the other I mentioned below the above quote. Also, after word had got out to the whole school, was there much homophobia?



Friends and a group to join online, although good to vent out my frustrations to, aren't the most suitable as I feel they may not be able to relate to what I'm going through or what the City of Carlisle is like with regards to homosexuality. Preferably, I would prefer someone to speak to offline, to go out and do things with or even a big group to join in my local area. Even so, I would find it hard to fulfil that as I feel as if I am literally trapped inside an overly-protected bubble...

In a way, I want to find those my own age whom are Homosexual and know what I am going though - purely so there is someone I feel I can relate to whom knows the area better than I do, knows more about who/where is gay-friendly. Someone who has the experience and knowledge of the city to guide me through and tell me where to go, what to do and where to meet others. Then again, like I said, overly-protective bubble - I find myself trapped in the house all the time except for school, and even at school I'm under quite high surveillance; Support Helpers often in lessons, Break and Lunch times restricted to a certain club for Special Needs pupils (by my own choice, ofcourse. I fear that if I were to dine with the other pupils then my dining experience would be... Less than pleasant...). Quite frankly, I want to get out into the big, wide world; meet others I can relate to while still maintaining a certain degree of safety.



I see your point, and value it. In a way, if Catholicism didn't criticise gayness/homosexuality, then I would have never had a chance to view and criticise these bible passages myself...

I think you would be right there. I used to think that guy had a fair argument, the one I mentioned in my story about coming out with the opinion about gay pride marches. But, as I learned more about it and started to go through the process myself, I understood why people do it. I think that goes back to the thing about education and if people don't want to learn more about it, then they won't be able to understand it. Mind you, they are still insistent on having an opinion on it.... Isn't that like getting into politics and campaigning without knowing anything of what you're talking about? I think we can link this back to Nick Griffin, too.

Here's an interesting story. I am/was (not really sure anymore) friends with a guy online who went out with another guy from another country for over 3 years and met him a few times. Despite considering himself to be in love with this guy AND admitting he does not find girls attractive., he refused to accept he is gay and was actually quite homophobic. I had lots of arguments with him about homosexuality and he believed that homosexuals were those who....well <Insert Stereotypical Views Here>. He said some quite horrible things as well so I just had to stop taking him seriously. So, if that's the opinion of men having sex with men!


After leaving school, I lost contact with most people. However, I am still in contact with one of my friends of the 3 way group I spoke about who I've been friends with since we were about 7. Although we are strong as friends, I don't talk to him much and we're not close at all. He knows I'm gay through people talking at school, but I never speak of it and officially, he doesn't know. Very confusing. He's got quite good ties with very socially active people but I really struggle and I don't feel I'm able to confidently fit in without falling into deep depression. I have another one who I'm quite close to and he knows I'm gay and I talk to him about it. But he's got the same problem as me and never goes out. I think he might have AS, but I'm not sure. Anyway, what I'm saying is that I thought I would loose everyone and some stuck with me. So, you may not be on the road to your ideal situation, but you could end up with something else quite close to it.


So, if this new group is better and more welcoming, why don't you feel that they wouldn't accept you? Does loosing the old group mean you're less qualified to join the new group? By the sounds of it, they old group are the type to let you back in, but I could be wrong.


I eventually made the transition to wearing jeans so I could stop at least one thing for people to pick up on and question me about. This is a very interesting topic. For some odd reason, I came to the conclusion that boys with clothes on that I found attractive MUST be gay. I was totally wrong. Perhaps I was just dreaming. There was a good thread on this forum about clothes and hair-

Finding Others Attractive - Love and Dating

This kinda explained that and I found it interesting. I still like to think that boys with certain clothes are gay, but it kinda depresses me when I realise that no, they really aren't gay. There is only one style of clothing that I can identify as being related to homosexuality and that style is also continued in hair styles, jewelry and personality. This I would consider to be stereotypical gays. I really don't think I would find a stereotypical gay guy attractive. Perhaps sweet, if he was really nice, but I wouldn't go out with one.


Thanks

Yeah, that explained why she did not say very much when I told her. I had totally missed her probably obvious discomfort.




If you enjoy very mild homophobic jokes like he does and like I still do sometimes, that shouldn't be anything to worry about. I would think about considering him. Like someone said earlier in the thread; try planting a little test secret to see how he handles it. Make it something quite personal and tell him like you would about the gay thing i.e about the severity of it. Even make something up if you don't want to tell him anything else. I am, too, very paranoid. There is a certain amount of risk in this, but preparation can help a lot. Take your time and have a good think about if you're definitely sure you've chosen the right people. There could be someone that you haven't thought of yet, so have a good go over it in your head. Also, think about how you're going to tell them. Obviously, you would be about the actual substance, but also plan how you're going to demonstrate the importance of it being kept a secret. How you communicate that can make a big difference to how someone perceives it thus how they react.

Word got properly out after I had unofficially left. I got a phone call from one of my friends who was asking why a certain person knew and why they were telling people. I immediately blamed her. To be honest, I still think it was her, but there's no way of knowing. That's my paranoia for you. While I was there, there was an issue with a little outbreak. One of the registration classes was spreading the news around within itself like wildfire. I got questioned by different people through the whole day and I just decided to deny it all and pretend someone had made it up. Nobody was rude about it, they were just inquisitive. And nobody was saying horrible things in general or anything because of it. On reflection, that was probably my opportunity to sink into a wonderful pool of acceptance and protection, improving relations with people more suited to me and moving away from those not so. Rather like your two groups, I had decided everyone from school was my old group and I didn't care for them but rather wanted to look forward to my new job as a Police Cadet (totally wrong choice in life). So, I didn't want to go through the whole process when I was leaving, anyway.


The more I dig into this, the more it appears to be about Asperger's and the less it appears to be about homosexuality. Would that be right? I mean, you would still want to get into the world and meet people if you were straight. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but, wouldn't someone who has experience and knowledge etc etc be someone who you wouldn't be able to relate to? I would say that it's important to remember, in line with what someone said earlier in the thread when arguing that you don't have to find people, that being gay and even aspie doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be any better to get on with than perhaps your current friends. What I'm saying is, it could be better to approach it like; search for gay people through finding people you get on with, than, say; search for people you get on with through finding gay people. That may also be an easier approach when working your way out of the bubble.


The most simplest way I view it is the following- There's two communities: LGBT and Catholic Church. They hate us and totally disagree with us while we respect them and hate only the fact they hate us.

Agreed. In that way, some people are incredibly stubborn...



Clearly that person does not know what it means to be gay.

This is one of many reasons why people need education on this topic. Then again, if he's going to search for a partner, he'll get that education of what gay is soon enough...



I hope so... My two main worries is that I might not, and I'm getting relatively impatient of just sitting - waiting for time to go by. In a way, I want someone I definitely know for certain I can view as a friend (except for the two people I mentioned, as one's a year older than me and the other views other people of the group as "best friend" more than myself).



True. I guess that, also, is a bit of paranoia and fear. I have this thought that the old group are conspiring against me, for some reason, and that if I were to join this new group (and that were to fail), I would be unable to rejoin the other group - as they would shun me... I think the main reason for that train of thought is that I have friends in the group, but none of which are good friends (except for 1) or best friends... It's strange. I view them as good friends that are invaluable and don't want to lose, but I feel that they view me as disposable or only usable...



Agreed. If I were to look for a boyfriend, I most certainly wouldn't choose the stereotype - mostly because it's so stereotypical, so mocked and (because it's stereotypical) so... Fake (in my eyes). Whom I would go for, mostly, are those with creamy blonde hair (preferably long and straight/wavy), blue eyes and a dancer's build (slender, flexible etc.). As for clothes, I would prefer something rather elegant (a frilled shirt, perhaps?).

Before you say that the above is stereotypical, being a dancer is not feminine (example: Michael Flatley and Riverdance), the frilled shirt is optional and even Men can have long blonde hair! Quite frankly, most of it is optional. Basically, I'm not too fond of those who are fat or muscular (despite being rather chubby myself...), and I have a preference for Blonde (Out of curiosity, is it spelt Blonde or Blond?) Hair.



At what point did you realise to text her? Just out of curiosity.



The problem here is that I've told him most of my secrets, but have never stressed severity - even with the most severe secrets. I've told him not to speak a word of these secrets, obviously, and so far word hasn't got out... Mostly just secrets like the fact that I sleep with a night light (this, strangely enough, is also partially paranoia. I feel that, if I can't see in the dark and someone were to break into the house, I would be doomed). As for making one up, do you have any possible ideas?



The best thing to do if word gets out is, ofcourse, deny everything. So, did everything just come out on the last day? Or did the school know previous to that? Finally, believe it or not, but my brother wants to be a police cadet. At least now I know, being the soft, unsociable person he is, he won't get far.



Excellent idea, but how (may I ask) would I find those who are gay amongst those I know? I fear that if half were to find out, they would disperse and avoid me like the flu... Also, a contributing factor to the bubble that I just thought I'd mention, might be the location where I live. I'm not going to give away too many details, but I live on a public estate (full of ruffian thugs) beside a park (where said thugs hang out, and I've harassed by said thugs so many times on that park that I've stopped going onto that park altogether) and our house is located rather inconveniently in the open (which leads to it many a time getting thrown snowballs at by said thugs, along with the other outer houses). Is there any reason I should trust the general population enough to feel safe enough to go downtown, or trust anyone of my age group? I've often said to friends "The one thing we lack in this friendship is proper trust", but I've always wondered whether it was my trust or theirs. Ofcourse, the belittling way they speak to me only worsens the situation.



Agreed. If the church were accepting of us, we would be accepting of them (and, to an extent, we currently are accepting of them). On an unrelated topic, there's also the NHS: Not allowing those who have had protected Oral Sex to donate blood. If it were unprotected, I'd understand, but disallowing protected is just nonsense in my eyes.