Question about sleep from the mom of an 11 year old

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Sorry to infiltrate your board but I need a little input from those of you who have had/still have sleep issues. Last night my son was awake until 3:00 am and finally fell asleep by coming downstairs and sleeping on the couch. In an entire week he probably has trouble with this about 2 or 3 times. Melatonin works somtimes, he can read as long as he needs to, he can watch TV, etc..Sometimes it just doesn't work and I feel helpless. I want to help him.

My questions are - what keeps you awake? your thoughts- too much going on in your brain? Are you able to "quiet" your thoughts?

Is anyone taking medication to help them sleep?

What do you do to help you fall asleep?

Thanks for any replies!

My daughter had serious issues with sleep at one time in her childhood. Her circadian rhythm got totally messed up, to where she was up all night and a zombie in the daytime at school. I looked at the factors in her life and eliminated everything I could think of that would bother her sleep. I instituted a firm bedtime time, regardless of how tired she was, so that she'd be in bed at least 10 hours before she had to getup for school. No tv any closer than 2 hours to bedtime. No video games after supper. No playing/roughhousing after supper at 6. Quiet hour started at 7 - soft music could be played, if desired, but no talk radio, no hard-rock radio stations. She never had a TV in her room, but I would have pulled it out and kept it out if there had been one. We added a soothing night-time snack (bowl of low-sugar cereal or a couple of crackers and some milk). Got a routine going, where everything was the same every night. A warm bath. Brush teeth and get jammies on at a specific time. Added some physical exercise (even if it was only a short walk) to her day after school but well before bedtime. A half hour of "kid time with mom" where everything stopped and she could just talk about the day, have a book read to her, have a back rub, whatever, as long as it was something calming. We kept the bedroom as a place for sleeping, and made sure it was suitable (comfortable, not too noisey, low light levels, not too warm, etc.) This all had to be every night, including weekends.

That seemed to help quite a bit - especially once the routine got going. Some nights she just wasn't tired enough or ready to go to sleep. I did allow her to come into my bedroom and curl up on my bed while I worked on the computer on those nights and she usually fell asleep there. The rule there was that she could lay on my bed, but not talk to me or interrupt me while I was working. It worked out ok. I'd put her back to bed when I was ready to go to sleep - she never woke up once she was asleep.

As an adult, I find that there are times when I am too stressed to easily sleep - just from trying to "maintain" my NT facade and dealing with people and the environment during the day. On those instances where I've not been able to discharge all that pent up stress, I will toss and turn all night, or go to sleep and then wake up every few hours, or wake up early. Sometimes it's from the brain being on hyperdrive - if I have something major coming up in life I'll run through how it's going to happen over, and over, and over again. It can be difficult to get out of that loop until all the plans are finalized and there's absolutely nothing I can do about what will happen.

I never take medication to sleep, per se. If I'm in a really bad situation - if it's been a couple of days without good sleep, I'll have a glass of wine before bedtime. As I get a buzz off of a closed bottle of beer, an actual glass of something generally will have me snoring within the hour. (Technically I guess that could be considered medication.) I use yoga, walking, warm baths with soothing scents, avoid the things I mentioned above that we avoided with my child. No TV, nothing on the radio with an up-tempo.

I also have mastered the art of taking my head elsewhere - I have an excellent imagination and pretty much ease myself into a daydream that I control at will. If done at bedtime, it typically quickly turns into a "night" dream from which I awake in the morning. I've also programmed myself that if I'm laying down in my bedroom with the curtains closed it's to sleep. I can go in at any time, close the curtains, and be in a nap within 10 minutes. These were definitely learned things, though. Years of practice.

Hope something in this helps.

Last edited by Nan on 02 Jun 2008, 10:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

1) The thougth of aborting a thougth with falling asleep and the fear of not being able to resume it when i wake has been a problem for me in the past. I had a almost psychotic? urge for rituals during a few years of my life VERRY troublesome but i eventally manage to ridden me from almost all of this.
2) The inability to abort something interesting like watching a Anime for me, am i interested i cannot just stop i "have" to see it all. Even is i try to sleep the urge to see more keeps me awake. Also games have this effect on many people i manage pretty well as i loose interest in a game after a few weeks so the problem is only temporary at best.
3) Not tired enough, i have to be REALLY exhausted, then falling asleap is no problem. Physical or mental exhaustion is both fine whatever comes first.
4) Sleep cycle breaks EXTREAMLY easy one single occasion can take weeks to repair.
5) Doing bothersome things like stressy situations (social, many people, or whatever is hard for you) drain energy, for myself i have/will/need sleep 12 hours per 24 hours to be able to manage as the above poster said "maintain" my NT facade wherever this has been a requirement. Normally i sleep 6-7 hours.
6) Depressions,sadness can result into "refusing" to sleep to try to make people notice somthing is wrong and help you.
7) Heat atleast me HATE heat when i want to sleep, also sounds like clocks or keypresses of a computer, ligth reflections, drives me nuts and can easily keep me awake for a while nigth, (I always have ear covers with me att all times to not bother my surroundings with my demands fo total silence.
8) Unsafe not being in your own bed or in your own space or dont like your own space (fealing secure) can mean all or nothing. Atleast i have a big urge for a place to "hide" this is usually places where sleeping is easier also.

This is what i can think of, i have own experiences with all of the following during various cykles in my life. I hope this helps you.

English is not my main language, and i have not been given so many opportunities to use the English language in written form (until now)

Insomnia or irregular sleep cycles is common in AS, so there maybe a biological connection. I am a night person and have been since I was a little kid. I would wait until my parents were snoring and get up to watch the late, late movies. As an adult, I got through college by taking afternoon and evening classes and have been working over nights for the past 15 years. When I let myself fall into a natural cycle I go to sleep beteen 3-4am and wake around 1pm. I just mention this because it has nothing to do with what I am doing before I go to bed , it's just my natural cycle and that could be the situation for your son.


I do find Melatonin helpful sometimes, stretching before bed (yoga) and readng a book that I am NOT very interested in or has short stories or sudoku, (a good book is a huge problem, as I will have to finish it.) I also keep my room very cool, have a fan blowing on me and a white noise machine.

I think what kept me awake worse then normal were either worrying about a social situation that I would rehearse for in my head (for hours) and a special interest that I just wanted to get up and work on....but the real problem, I believe is just my sleep wake cycle is just "different" .

I have issues with sleep as well. Most of my issues deal with stress or just the excitement from whatever I was doing before bed. I'll obsess about the next day, the current programming project I'm working on, the movie I just watched, etc. Sometimes I'll go to sleep fine, but I'll wake up in the middle of the night mid-obsession.

Excercise really does help. I try not to drink, but alcohol does work for me as well. More recently I changed to Zyrtec for my allergies and it "can cause drowsiness" so I take it at night. I don't take anything else unless I'm sick. I've found that I react differently than most medicines advertise and that some medicines will knock me out for a few hours, but then I'm wide awake in the middle of the night.

The other thing that may help is making sure the sleep schedule is 7 days a week. When I was in college I had a really hard time with sleeping until I quit going to bed late and sleeping in on weekends. I've also had experience with an inverted schedule (sleep at 5am, wake at noon) but I found that if I was obsessed, I'd ruin that schedule as well. I think my schedule is more of a 25-26 hour day schedule, but unfortunately that doesn't work well here on planet earth.

There is a great book " The art of dreaming" of Carlos Castaneda. They teach you how to stop your thoughts and to take absolute control of your dreams.

I think this really is the issue- my son has said before that he is a "night" person and falling asleep between 1:00- and 3:00 am is just natural for him.

I guess when he is an adult he can adapt accordingly - afternoon, night classes, 3nd or 3rd shift job, caffeine! etc. It's just that at age 11 the world doesn't really work that way - we do avoid any activity in the early morning hours because we never know when he will fall asleep.

Could be the fact he is a night person. But it could also be 'processing' the day. Sometimes it takes some hours for me to fall asleep, I spend them reading (and thinking) or playing around with my laptop computer. Sometimes these 'wake hours' are making me feel better. I would not worry about them too much.

In my experience it is best to keep a good and regular schedule. That makes me feel best, when I deviate I become more tired. And that was also valid when I was eleven.

But drinking hot chocolate can help me sleep. There are some combinations of substances that make me sleepy, but that is not wise to use for a child.

Last edited by Asterisp on 03 Jun 2008, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

I wish I could give you some good advice but your right..the world is not set up for us. Perhaps it comes from a gene we needed from the "cave man days"...we probaly got "night watch" shift If you have good medical insurence you could try and do a "sleep study". I considered it my self but the idea of trying to sleep with wires coming out of my head and attached to my body....seemed a bit absurd. I really don't know if there is a way to "reset" the clock perminately, though I have done it for short periods of time by just not letting myself sleep for 36 hours....talk about melt downs. It works for awhile but I eventually slip back into my old cycle.

I hope you guys find a solution.

Nor does the world work that way for most people! I am, by nature, a night person. On my 2 week hiatus from work in the middle of the winter each year I find my self going to sleep later and later. When I was in grad school I was lucky in that my classes were night classes. If left to my own devices, I will move back into a scenario where I am up until five or 6:00 in the morning and then sleep until 3 or 4 in the afternoon. My favorite and best time is from 1 -4:00 am when it's dark (no light to hurt my eyes) and quiet (no people around, usually). For years I worked swing shift (4pm - midnight) and graveyards (11pm - 7am) and did wonderfully there.

Unfortunately, the public schools and daycares really didn't accommodate this, so when the kid was a baby I forced myself onto a "day" schedule. I am on it still because I have to be. I do wake up before the alarm goes off in the morning. But, if left on my own and over time my sleep schedule will move back later and later.....

I have had sleep issues all my life. When I was a child, I surrounded myself with pillows and stuffed animals and made a comfortable cozy little nest. I felt I need to be surrounded on all sides. It wasn't until I was in my 20's that i realized what my body was really craving was weight. I got a weighted blanket made from weightedblankets.net. Mine is 17 pounds (I weigh about 110). I wish it was even heavier!

I also bought a white noise machine. It gives the air a gentle, constant, whooshing sound, and drowns out other noises. I used to have a relaxing cd that i played every night. classical mixed with nature sounds. I had about 3 different ones throughout my life. you can get one on Amazon. they are round and white and about $40.

I also use an eye pillow, a soft little beanbag you put over your eyes. it blocks out light, smells nice, and sometimes keeps me sleeping on my back instead of tossing all around. I'm also greatly helped by tight cuddles and hugs before I fall asleep. A really good back rub, back scratch, or massage also works wonders. Moms usually do them best, but you have to be careful cause you can't rely on mom to help you fall asleep forever. College roommates and romantic partners are probably not going to do this (or at least not as good!) But it can be a great short-term solution. And when I say short-term, I'm talking about years, not weeks or months. Back rubs got me through high school.

Reading and TV will keep me awake forever. I procrastinate sleep that way. Internet is way dangerous in terms of procrastination for me, but reading can be just as bad.

When i'm laying in bed awake and can't sleep, i'll grab a large pad of paper and pen from next to my bed, and while laying down and in the dark with my eyes closed, i'll write what i'm thinking, and draw what i'm seeing in my head. In the morning it is quite interesting, and sometimes incomprehansible. However, I never look at it that night and i just let my thoughts flow. just getting the words and images onto paper helps me fall asleep and sometimes you can see me dozing off in the way the pen lines go.

As a child, I also sometimes used my imagination to help me sleep. i imagined i was in an orphanage and sleep was my greatest pleasure. Or that I was in the hospital and my arms and legs were broken and i couldn't move them. I often pretended this when i had a dull, aching pain in an arm or leg (people used to call them "growing pains" but i still get them so i don't know what they are). I would take a small blanket and tightly wrap the affected limb up all tight like a cast, so i couldn't bend it. Then I had no trouble pretending I was in the hospital and that this pain that i felt was actually minor compared to what I felt when I broke it! (i never actually broke anything in real life - so i was really imagining here.) Sometimes when i didn't have a pain, and i just couldn't sleep, i'd wrap up a few limbs like that and the tightness and compression just soothed me.

Also, sometimes I lift my arm up in the air and leave it there until it falls down limply on its own. sleep is usually near. I also like to look up at my hands and watch my fingers move in wierd ways, or move flashy shiny lighted things up at the ceiling. I have something called the "uncle milton's rainbow in my room" that I like to wave around and look at. I guess the basic premise of all this stimming is the same reason we put mobiles over baby's cribs. its relaxing. i wish i had a mobile, just not one with pooh bear or baby duckies!.

My boyfriend has always used tv to fall asleep. Even now, he has to fall asleep watching some show or another on his laptop in bed. He also has medicine that helps him sleep, though.

Everyone is different. Your son will find something that works.

ah, yes. the kid also likes to have a small fan running. says it keeps the air moving over her and that the sound blocks out the neighbors.

I use a weighted blanket. The pressure helps me to fall asleep

i sometimes can't sleep because i fear the next day for sometimes unknown reasons, or just because i'm doing something wich i find so interesting i feel like not needing sleep

Melatonin doesn't work as well if you have light stimuation. He should just be reading - the TV will keep him awake (I use Melatonin myself)

what does his diet consist of?