Sorry I'm so wrong.

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I feel so stupid.
I get too concrete. I'm seen as stupid and child-like.
I become too abstract. No one else sees what I see. I feel stupid because they say:
"Oh she's just being random. Ha. Ha. Ha."
I can't convey what is in my head that is so obvious to me.
They frustrate me and then they call me arrogant.
Maybe they are the stupid ones.
I'm not making sense even now.

Today I was told I'm "bad" and "greedy" because I didn't give a complete stranger something that was very dear to me; something I've collected for a long time.
"It's better to give than receive"
Then give something to me!
Yet they refused to give me something in return.
I would have given them money, instead of the something, if they asked. Money is nothing to me. I am not greedy about concepts like that.
Just about these things.
But they did not ask.

I feel I'm the only person looking the right way. Everyone else is so inconsistent and coming from the other direction.
They can't see their own hypocrisies.
At least I acknowledge mine.

I'm so backward.
I'm so wrong.
Sorry.

It's not a poem.
Just felt like venting.
In the plainest way I can.
Sorry.

Practically Speaking:
Is there a place I can go where these irrational inconsistencies are avoided?
Somewhere I can just live and forget about bills and money and a 'proper' job and politics and dressing correctly.
Somewhere quiet.
Somewhere to be alone.
And just do my own thing.
Just learn about theories of reality and analyse data.
Any data.
That's all I ever want to do.
That's all I ever want to do.
But I just can't convey it.
Sorry about that.
Ha.Ha.

ok interesting story/poem.
however what you describe is accurate for most As of that age 19/20.

even thou i live in Irelan dnow, i grew up in Australia, had diffs fitting in at your age as well. was one of the main reasons i travellled.

" i cant convey what is in my head that is obvious to me"

yes this is what i do as well. remember AS is a communication difficulty and we often omitt the relevant parts, assuming instead that other know the message we are trying ( but failing to) deliver.

frustrated and called arrogant?
yes i was too. it is an AS curse.

It better to give than receive, then give me something then...i liked this, however i can see where thsi would annoy someone, but i am going to use it next time someone tells me this.

you are doing the very As thing of breaking everyones words down and assuming literal meaning yet you describe it very well:

They cant see their own hypocrises" i like this, you have a gift for language and usefull analogies.

im not sure if the repeated sorry is a poem or how you feel but let me tell you this.......
how you feel and act is normal for you as it is AS.
dont ever apologise for being AS.

it reveals that you want to be like them.

be happy within yourself and with who you are and the rest flows.

dont apologise for being AS.

if you want to analyse data you should become a statistician,
go to uni or do an advanced excell course ( it is a powerfull stat tool)
we all want to hide away and be hippies in this world, but we also have to fit in , adapt and live in a non AS world.

Inadvertently, it comes out poem-like.
Otherwise I get too detailed.
And hard to understand, I think.
I guess it's just a habit to say sorry a lot.
I didn't know if my post it was in the right place.
Just an anticipatory apology in case I had done something wrong.
But I see now I must not have been wrong to put it here because people replied.
Replied not unkindly.

*I'm feeling better now because words are flowing more easily.
But I'm getting too detailed and essay-like. Again.

Donkey:
You're the Qld'r who said the Scottish water and European water standards were at a safe level.
Like you, I'd want to move to Europe. I'm particularly interested in Scotland. I plan to have short trip there just to see if it actually is how I imagine it is. If so, I'll take the steps required.

"AS is a communication difficulty and we often omitt the relevant parts, assuming instead that other know the message we are trying ( but failing to) deliver. "

Do you see the Dichotomy of this communication difficulty? For example, with people in general:
I either give a 'lecture' to someone about a topic of interest so they may know everything I know.
OR
I presume the person knows exactly what I mean and I explain in a very succinct manner.
There is no middle ground.
Either way, I get the "What? I dun' get it" response.

If I respect the person, or see they are close to understanding, I then make (somewhat clumsy) attempts to explain MY OWN explanations.
Most still do not understand.
I get frustrated and flustered quickly.
I say never mind you won't get it.
With other people, usually I say never mind straight away to avoid frustration and feeling stupid.
In both instances I think this might be viewed as arrogance and they are irritated by me.
In both instances I withdraw and contribute nothing to future debates/conversations with this person about the topic.
Unless absolutely sure that what I say will not be misunderstood.
Though a few people I know in 'Real' life get what I mean straight away, or with a little prompting.
I hope you get the idea of Dichotomy.
It's easier to type an explanation than say it.
Is this communication was/is like for you?

I digress a little here about more Dichotomy.
In light of this issue, I try my best not to get frustrated with others simply because I do not understand them or agree with them at first. I try not do have double standards and try to reduce cognitive dissonance as much as possible. Another part of the Dichotomy is that I am very patient and broad-minded, even though I adhere to my own strict code and interests.
i.e. Objectivity.
I see valid points in both masculism and feminism.
I use Objectivity as a shortcut to empathise.
Up until the point where they get extremist and so adversarial that they want me to pick a side.
I cannot, as I am impartial and I think there should be a middle ground for both views to exist.
They both want me to reject myobjective view in favour of their blinkered version.
I withdraw from both because they have become irrational AND they discredit one of my core values.
Probably THE core value.
They are arguing for the sake of it. They enjoying it, aren't they? They don't want there to be a solution.
This is why I'm not at all political or particularly religious.


The sort of response like "There's no I in team; but there is me" that can be seen as being intentionally contrary?(Maybe they should choose another word for that idiom; like crew, where there is a "we", but no other letters referring to the individual, as I can see).
I can see how they could be annoyed too.
However, the person I was talking about annoyed me right back by not living up their own code.

"Sorry" is merely a verbal formality that I tend to use in a lower mood to protect myself against potentially antagonistic people.
Just to appease them because that's what they want to hear. I'm not truly sorry in this context. I should stop this habit and try to remember to use in the the correct context.
Do I want to be like them? I've wanted to understand things like them and have coherency like them, but because of their inconsistencies (that they are blind to), no, I have never truly wanted to become like them.

I have tried before to appear like them, I can't sustain the façade/character for long anyway, it's too draining and it's harder to think properly. Then I need to be alone to recuperate for even longer periods, which contradicts the whole point of me trying to be socially 'normal' in the first place. I don't bother with it any more since I have left High School.


I'm a dunce at using computer programmes because the equations I've memorised don't seem to relate to the clicking of a button to get an answer :/
So, an excel course would be good to understand the basics of the programme first.
Once I get the basics of anything, everything easily clicks into place and I quickly advance from there. Quite logical, yes.
Only, a lot of the time I focus on all the details and implications of using them, and over look the basics D:
Backwards.

I'll be happy to fit in with them when they are happy to learn to fit in with me.
Tired of always acting a part in public and trying to accommodate them when they don't try for me.
I'll have to wait for Real life to catch up.
I'll know when it has.
I doubt it will be very soon.
Until then I'm content within my own thoughts and books and being on WP/a reality that has does not need to catch up.
I'm very patient.

Incidentally Donkey, did you know that 36 is the next number I want to be? I've always liked the number 19, and now I am it (it feels better and younger than being 18, 17, 16, 15). But when I first saw you post(7th Sept.) I thought 36 would also a good number to be :]

Mizmusic:

Yes. Wrong Planet is a great environment for those reasons. I really like it here.
When I read certain books, I feel so good and clever to understand it's complexities, it's hidden meaning.
They are not only a sanctuary, but a reality.
But then I have to log off.
But then the book ends.
I have to go back to Real life.
Disappointing. Disillusioning.
I want to go to a Real life place where I never have to 'log off' and never stop feeling clever and understanding and understood.

It's comforting to know it's just not me, although it really feels like I am alone in thinking this in Real life, and it's easy to forget that there are others like me.

Oh I remember! In Angels and Demons by Dan Brown (2000), there's a place like this, in an organisation called CERN. In the book, physicists and scientists live there together. They had to be very clever to be there, so how they talked or looked was an irrelevance.
I think that environment might be Real, not only the organisation itself. I fantasise about a Real life place like that.
I wonder if there are any more places like that out there.
In Real life.

Whoops.

Do you see the Dichotomy of this communication difficulty? For example, with people in general:
I either give a 'lecture' to someone about a topic of interest so they may know everything I know.
OR
I presume the person knows exactly what I mean and I explain in a very succinct manner.
There is no middle ground.

yes this is a very good observation, your insight into AS is impressive for one so young.

this is one of THE problems for As is knowing how to modulate everything, we ar eeither too much or too little, rarley modulate our respnses, emotions efforts to be one that is worth while, lasting and has an affect.

we either burn out or dont try at all. there is rarely the abilty to find a middle ground. once this has been identified thou. as you have done, you can LEARN to modulate your response to stimulus.

i will give you two mantra which have helped me.
1. AS in itself isnt the problem, it is how we respond to it that is.
2. identifying solutions is what everyone does. I try to identify the problem. The solutions always follow easier with this approach.


If I respect the person, or see they are close to understanding, I then make (somewhat clumsy) attempts to explain MY OWN explanations.
Most still do not understand.
I get frustrated and flustered quickly.
I say never mind you won't get it.
With other people, usually I say never mind straight away to avoid frustration and feeling stupid.
In both instances I think this might be viewed as arrogance and they are irritated by me.
In both instances I withdraw and contribute nothing to future debates/conversations with this person about the topic.
Unless absolutely sure that what I say will not be misunderstood.
Though a few people I know in 'Real' life get what I mean straight away, or with a little prompting.
I hope you get the idea of Dichotomy.
It's easier to type an explanation than say it.
Is this communication was/is like for you?

yes absolutely....i prefer written communication as i can, at aglance and in the comfort of my own "zone" read and re-read, identify words and understand them at my own pace.

verbal communication is frought with difficulty this way, we have to revert to rote learned previously mimicked behaviour which may not be appropriate in the given context.

written communication is always easier with AS.

the frustration with others people inability to understand me is seen as arrogance. it is a curse i have suffered.

you are on the brink of a great discovery as you seem to have great insight into the cause of your As difficulties ( you arent in denial like most) you can , in a very AS manner break down your difficulties and identify them.
what you havent done yet is learn adaptive behaviour from this identification. while this comes with time, your ability to identify and observe your own problems are impressive, the next step is to use this keen eye to adapt.
see what you do wrong, yes you can.
see how to change, you cant do this....yet.

Do I want to be like them? I've wanted to understand things like them and have coherency like them, but because of their inconsistencies (that they are blind to), no, I have never truly wanted to become like them.

I have tried before to appear like them, I can't sustain the façade/character for long anyway, it's too draining and it's harder to think properly. Then I need to be alone to recuperate for even longer periods, which contradicts the whole point of me trying to be socially 'normal' in the first place. I don't bother with it any more since I have left High School

yes the facade is draining, you describe me when i was your age.

yet i didnt have the self awareness you do.

yet you dont have the experience i now have.


the point of the "do you want to be like them " question is thus:

you cant be like them, you can adapt for small periods, short time but it is draining and most unsatisfying as in the end, your still you and normal for you is AS.

learn this and embrace it.
adapt when you have to, but inside, in your quiet moments , embrace the fact that your As and be AS. save the quips and one liners and just get by. but dont deny who you are to yourself, just to them.

when did you det diagnosed?
you seem to have a lot of insight into your diagnosis.
i was 19 and had no idea how difficult i was.
then i met the enemy one day...and, he was me.

Yes. All or nothing.
Thank you for sharing the mantras. I can see they are useful especially when I will get down again.

"i prefer written communication as i can, at aglance and in the comfort of my own "zone" read and re-read, identify words and understand them at my own pace. verbal communication is frought with difficulty this way, we have to revert to rote learned previously mimicked behaviour which may not be appropriate in the given context."

I am the same. Can always read, re-edit written words or clarify word definitions at leisure. But to interpret words and meaning so thoroughly in a "real-time" vocal conversation is difficult. It's hard to take back what you have said that sounded hurtful, because their feelings are already hurt and they will often not be patient and give you time to re-explain your meaning. Right?
I'm still as influenced by people, TV and movie characters as when I was little. I usually play a respected character to public and respond as I think they would respond or as I have seen them respond. Not often appropriate, no.

One thing I do not understand about the description of AS that I once read is that AS "have no imagination".
Isn't the action of blending 'Real' life with other realities in books and films etc. and the difficulty to distinguish between them sometimes (at least this is it for me) an example of over-imagination?
At the same time it allows me to see things as they truly are.
I thought it was balance of concrete and abstraction.
I thought everyone did this.

"the frustration with others people inability to understand me is seen as arrogance. it is a curse i have suffered."
Have you had enough experience to learn how to overcome this curse?
Or use it to your advantage?

e.g. people listen to me in times of crisis as I retain an air of confidence (normally seen as arrogance) and clarity of thought. In fact, I experience intense pleasure because I can see a predictable pattern in the 'chaos' and I know just what to do while others are floundering.
And slow to act.
And repeatedly making mistakes.
They are desperate for any knowledge or reasoning to apply to the situation and therefore more willing to trust mine.
If I cannot readily see a pattern, it's just as exhilarating trying to find one in the chaos, because my mental processes have temporarily become so quick and are easily applied to the situation, whilst the other people's have become hindered.
It's like the tables have turned.

However. You are right.
I have to learn to adapt to everyday situations.
I'm just being stubborn, after all of those years trying but not being able to, and now finding a reason why I have difficulty.
But I don't want the term AS to make me lazy.

You have experience on maintaining the façade for longer periods?
I keep dropping in public.
As soon as I start to feel drained.
Automatic self-preservation.
I think.
It's going to take practice to override for longer.

I was diagnosed 12th of August this year.
The observations remained as vague ideas about myself since I was young.
Mainly the constant feeling of being incongruous both internally and in the way I presented myself in pubic.
I had possibly four minds, but I could narrow it down. Two minds, plus the way I acted which wasn't a mind at all.
There was no basic element that I could see tying my personal observations together, so I assumed they were completely unrelated.

Once I have the key element of anything, all the unrelated ideas connect and fit together, unlocking knowledge.
I can use my unlocked knowledge and the key element as a platform for further investigation and understanding.

I think diagnosis of AS was the basic element I needed to understand myself.
Liberation instead of condemnation.

I am beginning to look into the past without dread, or a need to repress painful memories. Analyse adverse events to understand why I acted/responded in a certain manner and what I could do differently in a future situation like it. But do so without dwelling on or regret about what I should have done.
It's still extremely difficult, but I am beginning to learn from my mistakes after I identify them.

I'm not sure I understand how see yourself as your own enemy, if you still do.
"inside, in your quiet moments, embrace the fact that your As and be AS... dont deny who you are to yourself, just to them. "

For I see myself as my ultimate friend. Dominant, the left side of the brain assists the right in the only way it knows how. Analysis. The right is trying to incorporate empathy to the left's logic. They are very similar and quite understand each other, yet at they same time they are opposites and each side is so enigmatic to the other. There are two of us in here, identical yet dichotomous.

yes two way conversations are full of blurted out replies that may be contextually innapropriate which leads on to your next observation. tv and echolalia.
A classic AS feature.
we learn , regurgitate lines from movies and TV allthou these may allow us to pass, socially the context may be wrong.

so a joke seen on tv, may not be appropriate to re-tell at a funeral but it gets done because in our minds the joke was cool and appropriate. it is the setting and context we fail to observe.

there are books which desribe "no imagination" i think these books are attempting to describe what others call no theory of mind, the lack of imagination observation is wrong. Most AS have a very good imagination.
Also remember the study was done on children and watching them and observing them in play which is described as "with no imagination"
it is also a developmental delay, so while some children can be described as having no observed imagination, when these same children get older they can and have developed an observable imagination.

the AS ideation is unusual, it is different and no not everyone does this, but it took me a long time to figure out that not everyone thinks like me.

so to apply this...dont treat others how you want to be treated.
treat others how they want to be treated.

with regarrd to the perceived arrogance.
i am less frustrated and appear less arrogant. the two go hand in hand.
less of both qualities makes one appealing to all around him. a function of time and experience.
yes you can learn to deal with this, actively.
plenty of apologies help when talking to others.

" im sorry for the confusion, i didnt make myself clear" is a good start.

the ability to see and predict patterns is, in my opinion an AS advantage.
AS ideation and pattern prediction is helped when one understand Bayesian statistics, not too much , just the basics.

a quick lesson:

is any system, if there is a consistent pattern occuring, someone with AS will see the pattern before a non AS thinker.

we can have an associative mindset and predict patterns and outcomes effortlessly when we watch, study or obswrve a system.

in fact we need to see consistency and sameness, and if it isnt there, we find it or make it.
we do everthing to avoid variation.

now in a varying system where there is too much variation a non-AS will predict an outcome better than an AS.

this is a very brief outline designed to be read easily. it isnt complete, yet.

everyone responds differently in a time of crisis.
i too can remain calm, i have seen others panic.
unmodulated emotions can make all people do unexpected things.
the facade is hard to keep up and it is tiring. makes one sleepy.


i have learned to keep it up thou.

unlocked knowledge and basic elements is another AS feature.
our ideation is ( what i call) associative.

we link together many different experiences to a key observation.

it can be both advatageous as we suddenly "get something"
but it can cause problems with what i term "inertia" and not gettign anything done until all the pieces fall into place.
we can suffer from perceived inactivity as well as amazing abilities to link a lot of different concepts togehter and "see"
what other people seem to reveal and hide at rhe same time . i call this a "skirting radar" you listen carefully to a group of people and then , effortlessly you link together all of their observations and tell them all what they are saying to you

in time and if developed well this skill can serve you well.
people will want your point of view and input.
it is a different way of thinking but with advantages.
i did this yesterday to a group who told me that i was telling them what they coulndt see.

a diagnosis of AS is an important step to the liberation your talking about.
the hardest step , in my opinion and expeience with others is acceptance of the diagnosis ( you seem yo have)
and then once these two "steps" have occured you will find that the associative linking and occurs and answers reveal themselves, suddenly everthing makes sense and is explainable.
a sense of inner peace follows with this self awareness.
it is this inner peace that you cannot place a value on.

the enemy?

he is there.
with all the advantages that AS has there are hidden disadvantages.

it is an analogy to adapt.
i dont seek to look or blame others for my difficulties or problems, i have looked for the enemy and he is in me.
it reminds me that i have to watch what i do all the time as i can still get myself into difficulties ...less so but still so.

Even if I do suppress a joke, as I recognise the context is inappropriate, it still runs it's course in my head. 'Spontaneous' laughter could be seen just as inappropriate to others, given the situation.
Echolalia is also in self-direction. When completing tasks. Step by step. "Walk to these traffic lights. stop. wait for the green man." I do this especially when tired or anxious. It's undesirable for me because I can't do this AND have free thinking at the same time. I have to wait until the task is complete.

A site suggests “People with Aspergers typically possess vivid, creative and unique imaginations. During play, the imagination of children with Aspergers is often devoid of imaginative expressions that would require taking another person’s perspective or point of view.”
Expression. This word presents an idea about ‘lack of imagination’ that I hadn’t interpreted from other descriptions or in books. So it discusses imagination that manifests in the outside world, not just remaining in the mind. Okay.

That makes sense now.
Oh I see you wrote ‘observed’ imagination also.
I am used to reading studies where the word ‘observed’ is applied differently.
It’s used to talk about inferences made from data.
I automatically assumed the studies on AS children used ‘observe’ in the same manner and I kept forgetting to apply the literal meaning of the word ‘observe’; directly watching with one’s eyes.
Silly me.
Observed lack of imagination.
Got it.

That's very true. I like this use of Bayesian Statistics. Stirred my curiosity... now it just needs to be known how a non-AS can predict outcomes in situations with too many variables. Then it could be learned how to do both.

The period of inertia and then suddenly "getting something" presents problems at uni for me.
Courses seem to e set out back-to-front.
Each week they present one concept and its abstractions at a time.
Each week's lecture content appears irrelevant to the last.
Up until the revision lecture, which is about 12 weeks into the course, I'm fumbling around for the base ideas that connect everything presented.
I just apply any prior knowledge that I think is relevant to assignments.
So it's a surprise to find out whether I get a great mark or an average mark on assignments.
I never know.
The revision lectures give a succinct summary of the course, and what the base points are that should be remembered for the exam.
So.
Only then, does everything finally start to click into place.
Then I'm in a frenzy to learn more and more and it's very exciting. I just "get it" and it feels great.
I compact 12 weeks of content and learn it in a week.
By the time I do the exam I know everything about the course and it's implications and interrelations with things not directly relevant to the course.
But afterwards I feel burnt out from over-stimulation and too little sleep.
Yet the knowledge sticks.

I know what you mean by the skirting radar term.
I use this radar and indeed it is very useful.
But it can also be disadvantageous because it could be viewed as antagonism
just for the fun of it.
I don't do it to personally "put down" a person.
But it is for the pure pleasure of analysing, identifying oversights and flaws in an agument.
Devil's Advocate.

One who uses skirting radar can be both ineffective AND very beneficial to a "side" in a debate.
Whether it be an argument for an essay or a debating team:
Upon picking a "side" of an argument, I automatically begin to identify its flaws and the arguments against it.
But.
This analysis can simultaneously be used to cut away parts of my argument that could be easily be contested or discredited.
All that remains are the more or less indisputable facts/points that support my argument.
This undermines the argument of the opposing side, especially if they try to directly contest these indisputable points.
They cannot contest my argument without deviating.

Some days I do accept diagnosis.
I still struggle to accept it though.
Other days, I feel that this is normal.
I am normal.
There's something wrong with everyone else.
That I'm thinking clearly.
So how could that have anything to do with a
Syndrome
Disorder
Maybe they are the ones with the disorder
and those like me are not disordered at all.
We are the sane ones.
I am different.
How could I possibly accept AS, defining me who I am?

On days that I accept it:
This is normal, for me.
But I can adapt.
I am different.
How could I possibly reject AS, when it helps me to discover myself?

I always feel different/normal but with opposite mindsets.
Dichotomy.
Yet I can see it.

The enemy.
I can understand this analogy now.
..Always have to watch the self.
Sometimes it watches over you.
I think.