Self Esteem

Post Reply New Topic

I've been giving this some intense consideration in the last 24 hours.

Yesterday, I felt overcome with feelings of low self esteem and was basically a bit depressed about myself. From there I had waves of thoughts centring around the apparant fact that life is pointless. From there, to cut a long ramble short, I came to see that such thoughts were really an attempt to escape from low self esteem. Yes, I think it was my illusory grandiose self declaring the pointlessness of life as a way to escape from low self esteem by viewing everyone and myself as living a pointless existence in which esteem isn't real or of value, a pointlessness which I am uniquely able to see, and therefore regain some esteem through belief in this special insight.

Anyway, still looking to get some self esteem and interested to hear from others who have reflected on this.

Get Self esteem by doing things. One mistake I feel I sufferd from as an aspie was not really taking ownership or doing much of my homework/life, often comfy with parents helping me, to detriment of my putting effort. By really working hard at stuff, over the past couple years my self esteem has grown dramatically. So work out, read a book, do your studies, just keep busy! Keeping busy is nice for anyone, for an aspie it is essential!

I've had a life-long problem with self-esteem, being undiagnosed and just always thinking I was weird and didn't fit in.

I get self-esteem by tackling small challenges and succeeding at them. Finishing projects, chores, feeling that I'm of use, if only to myself, and being creative or productive in some way. Spending a little time socializing just to prove to myself that I can.

One important thing for me is something like a to-do list, but sometimes done after things are done, where I list my accomplishments for the day.

Also, recently I had a lot of unfinished things that were so close to being finished, so I had a finishing day. I made a big deal out of it to myself. I finished most of the things on my list, ticked each off, and it felt good.

For me it's easy to lose sight of what I've accomplished in my life, so I keep things that will remind me, like memorabilia but of accomplishments: awards I received in former jobs, certificates, journal entries about what I've accomplished, and photos that remind me. I'm 55 and I still have a drawer of school papers that I got good grades on. I go through some of these things to remind myself of my self-worth when I'm having a down day.

It's also important to me to keep challenging myself to improve at things without biting off more than I can chew. There's a fine line, for instance, between the to-do list that helps you track your progress and the one that you add too much to and then feel overwhelmed and bad about yourself if you don't do it all. That's why I like ticking things off afterward instead of a list up front that I feel I must do. When I do need to plan in advance, I'm careful to not give myself a time limit for too many things.

I also try to reward myself for finishing things.

Right. So, it's a little bit of a chicken and egg situation. I mean, what comes first the self-esteem to do the things you want in life, or doing the things you want in life to feel good about yourself? It seems almost too obvious what you are saying , to someone who is caught in a cycle of rumination, but I think you are right and I've been thinking about just doing things. Not as a distraction, though. Some seem to advocate activity as a kind of escape from or avoidance of depression, but I'm reading your remedy as something that is bound up with the reasons for having low self-esteem. As an aside, perhaps low self-esteem and depression are distinct things, though.

I think I've been sitting around wondering why I can't have more self-esteem, but how can one feel good about oneself when one isn't actually doing what onw wants to with ones life? So, good advice. Thank you.

It can get tricky for me here, because I feel I ought to be able to feel good about myself without having to achieve anything in particular.

One hears of cases of people over-achieving to compensate for not feeling good enough just in their being.

On the other hand it seems crazy to expect to feel good without actually doing anything that would give one cause to feel good.

I want to address the roots of low self-esteem. I want to solve the problem. Perhaps I have to accept that it is more likely going to be a constant battle.

That's why it's important to keep the challenges small, I think. I can turn into a workaholic with the best of them if I let myself. I did that for employers in the past, without any real benefit to me.

Be careful how you challenge yourself. Make sure it's with things you really want to do and feel good about, for yourself, not because someone else thinks it should make you feel good. And keep it small and doable.

There are ways of looking at this that don't have that much to do with productivity or actually doing things. For instance just remembering friends and appreciating them. Thinking about what you would want for the world, and why you think that would be a good thing. Our intentions and values are who we are, no matter what we produce.

These are just ideas. I think you have to find a way to create your own way of doing this that suits you.

Some of the things I do are just for me. Knitting, journaling, drawing and painting, analyzing my dreams. Keeping up with my laundry. Finishing a difficult book. They're not earth shaking, if you know what I mean.

No matter what you do, you're a part of the world. Just not doing any harm is one big accomplishment compared to the news makers, if you know what I mean.

I get self esteem from my special interest - finding how to save the world.

I also find that pantheism helps: treating the universe as God. The universe created us, provides for us, and will answer all our questions, and basically does everything that a human does, so why not treat it as a human? There is really no difference other than scale and awesomeness.

The third way that I cope is to remember that time does not flow. So the "me" of the next second is a different "me." And the "me" of now is eternal. And it makes just as much sense to say "I live through my genes and memes" as to say "I live through that future "me"" - so even if we think in terms of time, we will live forever.

The fourth and final way that I cope is the same way you do - to note that the world is so completely messed up that anything I may do wrong is trivial in comparison, whereas anything I do right makes me super-human in comparison to the normal (super low) standard.

I'm really weird that way ... the idea that life is pointless cheers me up. There's no use getting worked up about it if it doesn't matter. May as well just carry on and muddle through it.

I don't think I'll become like a workaholic although I almost would welcome that for a bit because it would mean I was doing a lot for my business, which I want to do. I tend to wish after overnight results rather than carefuly pursue long-term success. I think that in itself is related to self-esteem for me. That is, I want a 'quick fix' to escape from feelings of low self-esteem.

I don't like the idea of 'challenging myself', at least in those terms. That makes me feel like the things I want to do are hard work and this has too many negative connotations for me. I think I hear what you're saying, though. Need to be realistic about what can be done and not get down on myself for failing to meet expectations that are too grand.

Thank you for the caveat about your offerings as ideas rather than a universally applicable program, that I must find what wworks for me. Perhaps for some it goes without saying that one person's view is only that. I can have a tendency to take advice as coming from an objective rather than a subjective viewpoint. Again, I think that issue in itself is bound up with self-esteem, for me, in the sense of coming to take more seriously and trust my own subjective viewpoint rather than being so susceptible to the influence of others' viewpoints as if they somehow know better than me.

I would say that for me, having ideas about saving the world, were partly a reaction against feeling of low self-esteem. I believe I have detected in myself a tendency to fluctuate between feelings of inadequacy and thoughts of grandeur. That is for me, though, and I have had particular experiences with religious-type approaches to life that are the background to me seeing things this way in my life.

Pantheism is of interest to me. I was finding out a bit about Spinoza's metaphysics lately, and his idea that everything is 'God' seems plausible and offers some foundation for feeling like one is living a meaningful existence. How does the universe 'answer all our questions' as you say, in this context?

I was questioning what positivity for my life is offered by the conclusion that life is pointless. I don't think I found anything, directly. If life is seen as thoroughly pointless then there is no point in being cheered up, my emotional state is irrelevent.

However, associated with my arrival at the perspective that life is pointless, was the disillusion or, at least, the questioning and thereby the scope for revising, of beliefs that certain things about myself, others and humans in general, are of great significance. I mean, like a reduction in belief in my self-importance and, as a human, the amazingness of my phenomenological subjective experience. Like, thinking too highly of my own capacities and those of humans generally. This to me, is the disillusion of a grandeur, of a subtle megalomania, that is born out of low self-esteem and is non-concurrent with the experience of real self-esteem.

So, in this way, for me, the possibility of real self-esteem is associated with a thoroughgoing despair about life's purpose.

It provides a different (and arguably better) perspective. We all like to think "I am right and everyone else is wrong" but deep in your heart you know this isn't true. Usually. but if you have a sound rational basis for your beliefs, a stronger basis than other people (as far as you can tell), then it gives more confidence. Pantheism is just one example, and for me it works like this:

Problem 1:
All my family is religious yet my natural peers are atheists. How can I feel like I belong in both groups? Answer: pantheism. If you read the Bible all the way through (and other religious books) then it's quite clear that "God is the universe" fits very well. Meanwhile, no atheist can complain about that belief. Sure, we then need to examine details of anthropomorphism, but that's just details. Now I can move freely among the liberal internet as well as reassuring my family that I still believe in a personal God (how we can only understand the universe in our image is another topic).

Problem 2:
How to maintain self esteem if everyone else says I'm wrong? Because inside I know that I am right, and that is a great comfort. It is even more comforting to be able to prove that the whole world is mad: why worry what they think if they are clearly wrong? Obviously you need to worry if you cannot get a job in this mad world, but that is a matter of economics, not self esteem. it is good for your self esteem to know that you know more than the smartest people on Earth, and more than 99 percent of people, on some important topic.

I don't mean this to sound vain: I know very, very little (see Socrates), but the average person (myself included) knows almost nothing about anything, so it is very easy to know more than nearly everyone else on a topic. Religion is a good example. It is easy to show that certain interpretations cannot work (e.g. young Earth creationism), but it works the other way as well. Richard Dawkins, for example, is a very smart man, but seems unaware that many theologians do not believe in the literalism that he attacks. He seems unaware of mainstream theology, such as that taught by the famous Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins for example. Jenkins was a pantheist in all but name, and he led a large part of the Christian church. I could make a very strong case for Jesus being a Pantheist. Dawkins also seems unaware that doctrine is merely a mcGuffin, and almost no believers actually care about it. So I know more about religion that Dawkins. Though it probably helps that I was in a cult-like church for 34 years, so have more experience of it from the inside. But really, these insights are not that difficult to grasp. However, Dawkins is too busy as a biologist (and rightly so) to study the topics in any depth, plus his own self esteem relies on being an atheist icon: he would lose status by taking a more nuanced view.

Problem 3:
The meaning of life, and life after death? With a concrete, provable concept of God it is then easier to work out what happens next, and what it all means. I think that this is very good for mental health. I could write about it at great length, but the most important point is that everything in the universe has purpose. Every atom is moving and every living thing is struggling to survive and grow. it is absurd tio say that life is pointless: purpose is all we have. In fact, given that all reality is ultimately particles and forces, and those particles and forces are defined in terms of their position relative to other things and their velocity, then purpose is all that exists and everything else is an illusion. Pantheism is full of insights like that, and it's all provable. I find that very god for self esteem. Related issues are proof of life after death, and proof that the universe is alive and loves us, but those would require a very long debate and I'm not here to sell pantheism, just to say that it works for me.

Pantheism is only one example of \an approach that helps me to make sense of the world and gives hope. Other approaches are a focus on economics, and the observation that time exists but does not flow. But this reply is too long already.

Thanks for asking.

I have had the problem that I seem to make everyone else's opinion or needs more important than my own, but I think for me it's been an escape from being responsible for my own life, thus the term "challenges" - but that's just me of course.

I do find that engaging my creativity in some way every day is nourishing to my soul. I'm not an artist, but I think that inside some of us who aren't artists per se are nonetheless creatively oriented and need that kind of outlet. Thus my journals, some drawing and painting, tracking my dreams, which are in essence one's unconscious responding to what one's conscious mind experiences, as well as direct messages from the unconscious. At least that's how I see it, being a follower of Jung.

With the plethora of mundane chores we all have, I can easily forget this creative outlet is so important to me, so it's one of those things I include on my daily lists to ensure I remember to set aside some time and just sit with me, expressing my inner self somehow, on a regular basis. Though I don't always do so, the reminder is always there. That's the real challenge for me, being still with myself, exploring my inner workings, and expressing something of that in the material world, even if for my eyes only.

I do agree with this in some way. In myself, and as far as I can see in living things generally, there is a basic wanting that is very stable. A wanting implies a purpose - they are the same thing in a broad sense. To see life as pointless is a denial of this. Perhaps in my case an attempt to escape from the pain of unfulfilled wanting. I don't think I need pantheism to see things this way, though, but thankfuly you're not trying to sell me it, so I'll refrain from discussing it further.

Interesting. I can see how that might work although I would tend to express it as self-deprecation being bound up with not taking responsibility for my life rather than as linearly as an escape from it. But this is not a question I have considered for myself, so I don't know. Thank you for sharing the insight.



I'd certainly concur that for me, it is good to spend some time with myself, getting a bit more detail on what is going on. Conversely, if I goo too long without doing this I perhaps get a little lost without knowing why.

I don't fully subscribe to Jung but I think he has many ideas that I have found applicable to and helpful for myself.



Nicely put. I can relate to that.

I feel the same way. Although it may be an effect of not feeling anything through accomplishments that has led me to believe I need to feel good about myself regardless of what I do. I've done a study of myself about failure and success and how those are of very little value to me concerning my self esteem. As far as I know, I don't have self esteem and whenever someone tells me to set small goals and succeed at them, I know they haven't been in my world before. Every success I achieve is nothing, for it is just another act, it means nothing to myself and it seems to mean very little to the outside world. So what I let the landlord in today instead of running away to hide like I normally do. Who cares? I'll hide next time. What is good about doing something? Where is the purpose in what I have done? I can't feel it. I lived alone for a year and people said "Cass, we are so proud of you." I thought they didn't really understand what it had done to me. Society's standards of success are pointless and I have none of my own that I can measure up to. Therefore, I want to accept myself as I am, not as I do.



I think the root of low self esteem is different for each of us. I'm still trying to find the root of mine. It has something to do with being taught that pride was selfish and bad. To feel good about myself is to fail to see my bad. I see everything I do and think, I see everything I am. If I can cook a good cake one day, it will not be good the next time. If I consider myself a good writer, tomorrow I will see every mistake in highlights. If I think I am a good person, I will see all of the bad things I have done, and if there's still reason to believe I'm a good person, there will be more reasons why I am not. All within me is contradiction and paradox. I have asked a therapist to help me gain self esteem, but I imagine that she will not be able to locate any method that would work for me. I shared this with her at one point:

---I extensively doubt myself, I'd like to believe in myself more. I've tried affirmations... they do not lead anywhere. I just go in circles, because an affirmation without proof is a lie to me, and proof is hard to find without its opposite, because I am all things, all emotions, both light and dark, good and bad. If loving is a quality I have, I also hate, so love is canceled out. Perhaps that is where the error in my brain is. I believe the negative over the positive almost always. This is likely because good is only good if it's good-perfect, but bad is always bad, like: a rotten apple spoils the bunch, but a good apple is nothing alone. That is culture's opinion, and it has eroded my system. I'm afraid that nothing will ever be good enough. I was just thinking "I make a good cake." and then right on its heels "Sometimes. Other times it is dry. It's only good when it is, and when it isn't, it isn't." The way I think about things sabotages me, and it will continue no matter how much I try to fend off the negative thoughts. The system has to change first. Otherwise, I cannot use a faulty strategy to fix another faulty strategy.
I have no idea what to do. My Dad says he can build up his self esteem by succeeding at something he wants to finish, mostly things other people tell him he can't do, or things they didn't think he would do, or when he proves himself right. Building his confidence this way of course is what counselors suggest, especially Vocational Rehabilitation counselors. What then happens when one fails? The self-confidence goes back down. Heck, I really do not want a self confidence meter based upon success and failure. That is the whole problem! Even when I recognise my failures as successes, the language inhibits me, and I still feel like I've achieved nothing. I just want to feel good about myself as myself, for myself, when I'm myself, no matter what I've done or plan to do... would there be anarchy if we all thought like that? I don't plan to be something labelled as bad, I plan to fail sometimes, though! I plan to make mistakes, I plan to do nothing, I plan to be lazy sometimes and gluttunous at others. I plan to be somebody- ME. And I want to be proud to be me, in all of my complexities and shadows and pains, my joys, my lightness. Everything. Yet, I know this isn't accepted by the mainstream, and I have trouble finding validity for my thoughts and feelings. Is my world so different from everyone else's? I told my counselor I wanted validation, and she said "Where do you think that comes from?" If it comes from me, I'm in serious trouble, because... I'm BROKEN!---

Even after reading that she told me I didn't have low self esteem, that my sense of self was too defined and developed. Sadly, the definition of self esteem has nothing to do with having a self or knowing what that self is like, it is "having acceptance, trust, belief in, and respect for oneself", and I do not have those things. I have no idea how to gain them except through others. If someone else believes in me, I might believe in myself for a little while. If someone else accepts me, I am more capable of accepting myself.