People here on WP are making me feel horrible about myself

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Good idea. I agree.

I would like to respond to this whole message but no time right now.

quiet_dove wrote:

No,not wrong, but, as i wrote previously, unrealistic. It is natural and healthy to try to control and shape the environment around oneself, but in this particular instance, in my opinion unhealthy. I could be wrong though.

You do have the choice to stay away from the forum that was upsetting you, but if you do that it might be perceived by you as letting this other person win. How important is it to win is an interesting question. Sometimes it is necessary to turn the other cheek, Yes, painful, i know, speaking from much personal experience. and sorry about that. For the suffering you have experienced and are still experiencing i am genuinely deeply sorry, and kudos for doing volunteer work in spite of all of this personal suffering. Very inspirational.

I have seen much worse posted outside the Haven and people get less flack than Quiet dove is getting. Since she chose to post in the Haven I assume she felt upset. Am I missing something about Quiet dove that people don't feel she should be allowed to use the Haven as the rest of us do....for a safe place? I don't understand what's going on. Can someone explain why the Haven's purpose isn't being respected here for Quiet dove? I am confused.

I know this is your thread, and I'm not jumping on you or insulting you, I'm simply answering your question.

First off, I am a nice person and not cruel by any means. I argue in PPR, I do the same as everyone else there does. I'm blunt and to the point. However, I'll bend over backwards to keep from hurting people I care about. I also don't cross the lines that often here and when I do I apologize for it. When I'm wrong or when I think I've been too hard on somebody, I apologize for it.

I don't think others have been "hurt" by me at all here. Some have been offended but I've also been offended. Most of us let it go and go on. That arguments in PPR are just arguments in PPR. They don't mean anything. I'm happy to change the subject and talk about something that I agree with the person who I have just been in a bloody war on there with, because being adults, thats what we do. I'll argue with actual friends here the same way I argued with you and I expect the same from them, a true full on argument about the topic with no holds barred. That doesn't mean we don't like or respect each other. I'm friends with many people here who I've argued with and while there are a very few who I really don't like and would love to rip a new one for, I rarely do that because there is no point in it.

Thats why I haven't been banned. Because I simply say what I think and feel and I'm not out to hurt anyone.

Also, I do want to suggest that you NEVER call talk radio and try to discuss politics there. That is where I learned most of my arguing skills about politics. It's a bloodbath but you learn a lot listening to those shows, and from both sides and not about just arguing either. I also used to write an op-ed column and on certain subjects I was exactly like I am in PPR, so I was paid to do that. That is just me and only about certain subjects. I'm very, very far from a cruel person although some people here wouldn't believe that for anything, but then again, they don't know me.

You had one run in with me, and it was a light, brief one. It's not ever good to form opinions about others from that sort of thing, even though it is very tempting.

OOM, I really wish you hadn't posted in here. I honestly don't even want to acknowledge your post, since I think of this particular post of mine as the one place where I don't have to interact with you. You could have just as easily PMed me, you know, instead of trying to one-up me and make me look like the bad guy in front of everyone else.

You know, I think this is going to be my final post here. Mods, please lock this thread and ban my account. I just give up on trying to get along with the people on here. And to everyone who was kind to me, thank you so much. I really wish that circumstances had been different and I had been better able to get to know you, without my anxiety and depression getting in the way.

Take care, everyone.

Quiet_Dove/Hannah

Quiet_dove I think you may benefit from a tip my Mum gave me:

Save your next response(s) as drafts. In a further 24 hours repeat the process.

I've never responded to anything I feel passionately about straight away since. If I hardly care about it the next day I say my piece. If I still get emotions I wait a further day. Give yourself the gift of time x

P.S. Sorry if this hurts you but I'm very impressed by littlebee. I hope you can see why in a couple of days x

Just because I'll jump on you about a particular topic doesn't mean I'd jump on you about everything else. It's the TOPIC I'm going on about, not the person in general, ever. I'm sure you and I, (and Quiet Dove and I as well) probably have things in common that we agree on and might get along just fine when talking about them. Agreeing to disagree is hard to learn but I've learned how to, then again' I'm 51 and had time to do it. I get especially intense about things when I feel someone is overreacting to something, and I tend to overreact. Not logical at all I know, but it's how my brain works lol.

So please don't think I'm a horrible evil witch that goes around being mean to people for no reason. Some topics just inspire passionate responses in me, thats all. For the most part I'm actually a very nice lady. Ask any of the people who actually know me. While they may not enjoy arguing with me about things because they don't like to argue in general, others who actually know me and who do like to argue in general and with me as well, will all tell you that I'm nothing at all the way I come across when arguing with somebody. That is only a very small part of who I am, so seeing the rest of me is important too.

And, another individual leaves WrongPlanet.net. This is getting to be routine.

It appears to me that the only members not complaining about the hostility are those who are engaging in it. I am beginning to look for the exits, myself.

I kinda did hole back the venom toward Quiet Dove. If I had been arguing that same stance with Fnord or Raptor or Dox and one of them were arguing Dove's stance, I would have been much worse. However, none of them would have taken it personally or been personally offended by it, just as I wouldn't have been offended by what they said either. Everybody has a line that when crossed will offend them. That line is in very different places for very different people and most people tend to relate toward others as if that persons line was in the same place as their own.

Quiet Dove, please don't leave. Just take a sabbatical like others do, keep in touch with a few people by pm. You have as much right to be here as anyone else, and deserve to be treated with the sensitivity that you personally need.

quietdove, don't take advice from random strangers on the internet. Don't assume that the other person is in a sound state of mind or intelligent or caring or compassionate. I honestly think there are some sociopaths on this forum. I treat the person at the other end of the screen as a symbol. I try to treat the symbol compassionately. Sometimes arguments in PPR get really weird and emotional. It's like people go there just because they want to find something to be angry about. I do it myself.

What happens when you join a forum like this is you get slowly brainwashed. I am a student of brainwashing so I find it ineresting...but it's bad for mental health.

Who said I don't care about people's feelings? I certainly do care about them. I care about them very much. However, when someone is arguing in PPR I tend to assume that they have at least some sort of ability to separate the argument that we are having from everyone else's feelings about other things and who they are as people. If you really want to feel like you are the scum of the earth, call in to some of the political shows on the talk radio and argue with the far right wingers there. I regularly get chewed up and spit out by some of them, but their words to me about that topic (and lots of times the actual personal insults that go along with them) don't really matter because they are all based on their assumption of who I am and what I do, think and feel. Kind of how you implied that I don't care about other's feelings. It doesn't bother me because it's based on an assumption that you got from our exchange on PPR. It's not accurate, you don't know me, so it doesn't matter. The same way that what I said to you was based on my assumption of who you are that I got from our exchange on PPR. I don't know you, it may or may not be accurate, and it doesn't really matter. You know whether or not what I said was true. If it's not true then simply refute it and explain why, just like I'm doing here. Then let it go. Thats what I'm doing. I'm not jumping on you either nor ganging up on you, so before you think or say that, please listen to me. I used to be exactly like you are by getting my feelings hurt by everything and feeling like everybody else was mean to me on purpose and it was unfair. I had to constantly remind myself that it really didn't matter, as it didn't, and slowly I grew a thicker skin and was able to diferentiate between actual insults and things that really weren't worth my time or attention, like insults during arguments over politics, religion, football, etc. I'd really encourage you to try and see things differently about stuff like this. It's very hard to and you can't suddenly change how you feel, but you can remind yourself mentally over and over that you may be taking something wrong. Over time that does sink in and you can start to step back and look at things properly and then go with whatever response you think is appropriate. It doesn't always work, but it does work a lot of the time. I'd really like to see you do that because I think you will be happier in the long run.

As for depression, I've had severe clinical depression off and on my whole life. At times I have to be on meds to even function and get out of the bed. I'm very, very familiar with depression and it's consequences and side effects. I know it can make you blow little things out of proportion and not see it that way at the time. It's terrible. I've tried suicide before and almost succeeded, although I'm very glad I didn't succeed now, at the time it seemed to be the best way. Lots of times I don't even see a need for my existance, and that is even when I'm not very depressed and not even on meds, but I still get up and go on. It's getting close to time for another depressive episode even though I'm not bipolar I tend to have periods of being normal and not depressed (never manic unfortunately) and then stress and personal situations or even just my brain not working with it's chemicals correctly will bring on a major depression. So I do feel you about the depression. One thing that I've done over the past several years when I'm in a depression is to constantly remind myself that how I'm feeling isn't my actual feelings. That sounds illogical and it never makes me FEEL better at the time, but it does help me to keep things in perpsective about my decision to live or die. I remind myself that how absolutely horrible and worthless I'm feeling is all because of the depression and my brain chemicals not being correctly balanced. I remind myself that it will eventually straighten out and that meds will help it over time. It doesn't do a thing in the world for how I'm feeling but it reminds me that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and that I also shouldn't make any decisions based on the feelings that I'm having at the time. I also usually go to the doctor shortly after and get the meds.

As for meds, I've been on almost all of them and only one particular combination works for me. It's hell to have to keep trying different things over and over and it's very discouraging because it starts to feel that nothing is going to work and it's hopeless. However, if you do make yourself keep on keeping on, and trying different ones and actually staying on them for a month or so to see if they will kick in and work right, eventually you will stumble on something that works, whether it's just one drug or a combination which is what works for me - Welbutrin and Lexapro. Alone they don't do diddly, but together they work wonders. So, if you don't take meds for depression I really urge you to give them a try. If you have tried and found nothing that works, I also urge you to keep trying. It's terrible to have to go through all that trying but once you find something, you are set. When they insisted on Celexa I actually almost killed myself from it, but that reminding myself of things I knew stopped me from doing it. I had everything set to kill myself and it was just a matter of getting up out of the chair and doing it. I finally reminded myself that I felt that way because of the Celexa and didnt' do it, and called the dr and insisted on a change right then. That is the only one I didn't try for longer than a few weeks. I didn't think I'd be able to pull it off and stay alive, so I stopped it. So yes, it can be brutal to have to try meds if you haven't found any, but if you haven't found any it's something that is so worth the crap you have to go through. If you have found some and aren't taking them, then go get a script. It feels so much better to be on them when you are depressed. If you found some and they work but not good enough, talk to your doctor because they can work on it. Depression can really make you see everything wrong.

So, I'm not jumping on you or anything, I'm just explaining it. Please don't take it that way, and please read what I have to say without coloring it with our previous exhange in PPR which has nothing to do with this.

I have a theory about this.

I think when you see people arguing on internet forums, they are sometimes reenacting past events. Some people take on the bully role. Others take on the victim role. Some people take on the bystander (helper) role. And some people unfortunately alternate between being a bully and being a victim.

If you spend 100% of your time on WrongPlanet PPR subforum, you will eventually start demonstrating bullying traits yourself. Nobody is immune.

Also, words in text tend to sting more than verbal speech. You need to constantly be reevaluating what frame of mind this crazy person at the other end of the screen is in. Otherwise, you lose your moral compass.

Or they could actually be interested in what they're discussing, rather than in attacking anyone personally, and be saying what they mean. You know, like aspies.

I know how you feel. I left for three months because I got the feeling someone wanted to get rid of me. It hurt so much because the people here are the only friends I have. Ha ha (friend list=0) I came back because these folks are the only ones who come close to understanding what life is like for me. I don't care so much if people do not like me as much as I care about being understood. I make bad jokes and expose my ignorance in search of comfort and I am sure that in doing so, I have inadvertantly made someone else feel bad (I never want that). I don't worry so much about who hates me. I really do have compassion in my heart for all living things and too bad if I am unwanted. I should be used to it by now.
The internet lacks a degree of accountability that you get with face-to-face interaction. In my opinion, Aspiens have a lifetime of social punishment bottled up behind a hair trigger. Considering feelings will come second to getting the points accross for us. I understand the difficulty involved in "Try to forget about it." but I think that is the best you can do in this case.

I personally steer clear of discussions involving Race, Religion, or Politics because there is no final solution that works for everybody, and inevitably will lead to conflict. Unless, I am just angry and in the mood for a bare-knuckle cage fight to the death. (but I have Grand Theft Auto for that)

There are many very nice and compassionate people here. If you leave you will soon realize what you've lost over one cold fish. There is much more you can gain by letting it go and finding a less volatile subject.

quiet dove,

first you complain that OOM hasn't apologized. then she does and you use it as an excuse to stop communicating. seems like there is no pleasing you. i'm sorry you feel bad, but that's no the whole story. i have had depression and social anxiety and i was still in charge of my thoughts. not saying things are easy, just think you could chalk this whole thing up to a way to become more mature.