Seriously, why is there so much Misogyny on WrongPlanet?!
^^this. Exactly right *clapping*
Saying 'don't go into that forum' is the online equivalent of saying 'women shouldn't walk in certain areas because it's dangerous for them.' How is that fair? We deserve to go where we want and places should be made safe for everyone.
I remember at one point being told not to go into PPR. While I appreciate the sentiment and the warning, I thought that was really unfortunate because I studied Philosophy but I couldn't discuss it in an informed, academic way without certain members acting like it was a no holds barred political street fight, or making it about an American election at that time. I don't like discussing politics and don't follow politics apart from political philosophy but no one was into that. It seemed that people thought the rules didn't apply if I stepped into PPR because the mentality was "enter at your own risk" (??) even though it's governed by the same rules as WP and actually has even more specific or defined rules against bullying, harassment, and personal attacks. My thought was that PPR shouldn't be "enter at your own risk", if the rules were enforced as written. I don't go there much anymore but I think things have possibly (possibly ?!) improved in the last three years.
As for L&D, my point with this ^ is that L&D has earned the same bad reputation for becoming a bloodbath. I think that's regrettable because it could be a helpful resource for people of all genders or with all types of relationship history to support each other. I think CF and the mods have done an excellent job with damage control but it's an ongoing effort as we've all seen, and we all have to be vigilant about keeping sexist or harmful attitudes in check by reporting and following up if we aren't satisfied with the outcome, or if the person continues. Ideally I think all the "I can't get a date with a woman" threads should be combined into one area with a sticky of advice. Those people do have a right to support and their feelings / mental health matter as much as anyone else, provided they aren't being hostile toward women or espousing any political ideology which would be against the rules.
There are lots of other dating topics relevant in L&D. I've tried to start a few, like the one about Disagreements, and one about Narcissists & Liars. Is the Red Flag thread in L&D? (Probably -- sorry, should check.) I'd love to see "Dating after Divorce", "Dating after Trauma", "Dating as a Single Parent", etc. as well as tips on cohabitation, marriage, breakups, divorce, etc. Dating is a lot more complex than "How to meet a girl". Trans and NB members should be comfortable in L&D as well without being corralled into the LGBTQ+ subforum, which isn't necessarily about dating. We had a new member (sorry their name escapes me) who is NB, but felt uncomfortable in L&D. Actually I suppose they're the OP of this thread (silly me!) The fact that they came to WP and were confronted with blatant misogyny is really troubling. It says a lot about our public reputation and the future of this site if we sit back and think nothing can be done. CF is onboard so I hope this thread serves as a wake-up call that we won't tolerate sexist or transphobic ideology against any member of Wrong Planet.
I'd be happy to help write specific rules for L&D if CF is interested in an update. I invite anyone else to contribute as well, including the OP. It would be great to represent a range of voices including all genders and orientations. That's not to be political or malign any existing members, but to support the ones who may be too intimidated to speak up.
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
![Embarassed :oops:](./images/smilies/icon_redface.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Surprised :o](./images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Another option would be Mod Attention, especially if we want to rewrite some rules.
Good thinking!! Tbh, Idk which one would be more appropriate, but both sound like good choices, tho!!
![Surprised :o](./images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif)
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_smile.gif)
I'll state for the record that, I've never posted in the L & D forum, as I've not been in actual relationship literally since 1997; and even from that period I've never taken out my hostilities or grievances towards any women.. Many of the social scenarios which, I have failed out have been my own doing, and even when there has been circumstances not pertaining to me, I don't point fingers at others. I, myself try to maintain a sense of honor and compassion..
I have a theory.
Since we're forbidden from saying guys have it harder than gals when it comes to dating, I won't say that. Here's what I will say, however: Guys on the spectrum have a harder time than neurotypical guys when it comes to dating. As a result, a lot of guys on the spectrum might go misogynist in frustration (over his failures with women)
This is true. It's just that men tend to be in more positions of power and so their voices get listened to more. As you say, we need to check ourselves sometimes.
_________________
That alien woman. On Earth to observe and wonder about homo sapiens.
To me this exemplifies the inherent problem with running an autism forum. Consider a forum for deaf people. They share roughly the same experience and occur in equal numbers by gender. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I doubt misogyny is anywhere near the level of concern on such a site. I have reason to believe deaf people prefer to be in relationships with other deaf people. Whereas not only are women here struggling with misogyny in general but specifically on the part of men on WP i.e. autistic men, as a consequence WP is not a safe space for them.
I don't think there'll ever be a way to have a civilized discussion here of this topic.
I suggest some new rules. This topic should be forbidden on WP except in the Women's Forum. In addition, anything said on WP can be reported as misogynistic on the strength of that accusation i.e. it's deemed misogynistic if reported as such by anyone, and will be removed.
EDIT I mentioned relationships because this issue seems to mostly apply to the L&D forum even though this thread was created in the Haven.
As someone who would be affected by this potential change, I don't like this idea at all. Putting our threads behind an extra subfolder can only decrease their visibility. Why?
It's kind of otherising, as if people are sick of hearing our issues so we're relegated to a niche side-pocket of the site that people are less likely to click on
Most threads in L&D consist of recurring themes anyway. I don't see why the "I can't get a girlfriend" threads are different enough to warrant a different location.
Last edited by The Grand Inquisitor on 27 Mar 2023, 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.
As somebody who voluntarily chosen not to post in L&D. I see there is a risk to not allow people to share their emotions/thoughts as with stifling other forms of thinking by banning or removing it
I myself don't think in a way that can be described as misogynistic but in recounting my 20 year old self and how it transformed it may provide an important role model for young men here on WP a life lesson not to go through what I went through. Perhaps the choice of words might be inflammatory (I accept that) but why is it wrong to share authentic experiences?
As someone who would be affected by this potential change, I don't like this idea at all. Putting our threads behind an extra subfolder can only decrease their visibility. Why?
It's kind of otherising, as if people are sick of hearing our issues so we're relegated to a niche side-pocket of the site that people are less likely click on
Most threads in L&D consist of recurring themes anyway. I don't see why the "I can't get a girlfriend" threads are different enough to warrant a different location.
Perhaps I worded that a little clumsily. I didn't mean it should all be in its own subforum away from L&D. Of course your struggles are relevant to L&D and for a lot of autistic men (and women ... and people). What I was suggesting was for there to be a big "support thread" on that topic within L&D, with resources available. I didn't mean it should just be a sticky, since people seldom read stickies. I mean the thread can be there with resources linked to a sticky.
The issue of male mental health is very important to me, and I think you know I've done a lot to try and help or support men here whether it's with dating, self-esteem, sexual assault, gender identity, or any issue of equal rights. You know I speak up against misandry (in fact I used to see misandry even more than misogyny, and I said so repeatedly.) Maybe there are too many of you to be put into one thread because it would be hundreds of pages long. I get that. I'm not sure what the solution is, but at the same time it isn't fair that the entire L&D is known as a place for men to lament their loneliness. It has that stereotype, even though LOVE is a huge topic on its own not just with regard to finding love, and DATING means ... actually dating -- which is very difficult to navigate once it starts. The subforum isn't called "Wanting Love and Not Dating". I'm sorry if that sounds sarcastic because that wasn't my intent, but it's true. I think it should be a subforum for all aspects of LOVE and all aspects of DATING or relationships, in their many stages.
People like yourself who have specific mental health struggles on the topic can still use The Haven for individual advice, so I don't think anyone would be ignored or brushed aside.
Those are just my thoughts anyway. Everyone is welcome to share theirs, since I'm certainly not in charge of L&D and don't want to pretend I am.
_________________
I never give you my number, I only give you my situation.
Beatles
But yes...it should be a resource available to anyone.
But the mods already do a lot of their work there, and it doesn't help.
I came here initially because I needed a break from PPR.
And I am very much into psychology.
I found this forum fascinating.