This issue still perplexes me. Seriously. Can we discuss it?

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Edna3362
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20 Jan 2018, 9:44 am

The solutions I prefer is usually internal. Something more abstract, intangible, and more permanent. Yet I cannot share them or explain them well because it's too vague. It's like something had been figured out and clicked on how to take it than, well, 'protected', 'coated by', etc.
Because I don't like maintenance like how I don't like needs. :lol: Partially because I'm still working on my palette, and partially because regimen like routine isn't my thing.
I'm the kind who chooses to learn how the flow works like how to take chaotic stimuli, how to handle negative emotions, how to do whatever in real time, how NOT to have triggers, how to shift gears intuitively, how to adapt -- as opposed to following a script like what to eat or how many hours to workout, what to say or do appropriately, or I dare say how to avoid triggers or get reminders, or just how to cope in general.
That's why :twisted: I rarely take advice here. But I'd keep references just in case.


But this topic had nothing to do with my opinions of your posts, how you post, or what I prefer to see. I just can't help but say it nonetheless. And some would do better to advice you how to post better.
This topic has something to do with pessimistic members who chooses to stay with the negative state they are living and complaining about, yes?

While some posters had already told you why they couldn't or wouldn't immediately try, I might as well give something on my mind.
I do confess, that sometimes, sure, I wanna help. Except, my life isn't like theirs. It works with me, but it is never guaranteed if it works with others. My solutions are too vague and abstract to be understood or explained. I suck at words to articulate that. I usually take account that everyone is vastly different to the point of absurdity. :twisted:
Sure, everyone has their choice. So I'd take account of that -- even if it means hurting themselves further. And no, I don't advice that to others -- that's my own hypocrisy there and you wanna help others.

Eager as you are to help, confused why would they do that when you gave an option to them?
Maybe for the same reason as I do -- I prefer something else. Maybe even if it backfires me as long as it makes sense or if I'm in a mood to.
Maybe it's from what others posted -- circumstances, money, time, depression, and other ASD related issues of not trying anything new, not aiming for change, being stuck, etc.
Or, a solution that you wrote makes sense or seem right to them -- kinda why some do ask you, some do exchange knowledge with you. And why people mistook you for a snakeoil salesman. :lol: Ah, the power of words and it's impressions. They're not my thing. :twisted:



On the side note, sure, why not? :twisted:
Certain sweets screws my short term memory. Caffeine DOES gave me a very minor like tremor and a screwed up working memory. Certain brands of non-powdered creamy milk made my executive functioning better overall. That's practically ALL I tried and known about consumables, and how it affects me. :lol:
The rest is just focus, stimming, special interests, having my own space, hormones and emotions, temperatures, mind states, and my moods. I don't like to depend on and I don't depend on routines and predictability -- but it does makes everything easier and boring, and that's it really.


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goldfish21
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20 Jan 2018, 4:41 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
In order to write a credible report, he would need corroboration. He would need someone else to have benefitted from his diet. Preferably quite a few people.

His report would be rejected by the vast majority of organizations because only he benefitted from the diet.


I could write an honest report of my sample size of me. However, additional people who've benefitted from it would certainly add to it's credibility. A bit of a chicken and egg thing.

Late last night I had a thought come to mind about this. That it'd be futile to write a concise report to circulate amongst ASD researchers etc if it's impossible to get anyone else with ASD to even consider trying to treat their symptoms via this method.. what's the point? But then I thought, hmm, maybe I'm incorrectly assuming that posters on WP are representative of the ASD community. Maybe they're not. Maybe posters on WP are representative of those in the ASD community who like to complain/vent etc but never do anything to treat their symptoms? Maybe some nerd researching ASD somewhere has access to lists of people willing to try dietary changes and the like in order to treat their symptoms? Hmmm.


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20 Jan 2018, 4:59 pm

i would be more easily able to change my diet if i lived by myself and did all my grocery shopping, which i don't. i don't have as much control as to what ends up in my fridge as perhaps you do. still i've learned to manage my symptoms and "normalize" myself through other means.


i also think this place isn't a totally accurate representation of the entire ASD community.... for one there is a glaring lack of hispanics. clearly those without internet access are also not represented....if we were talking about ASD people in anglo countries only, then it would be more thorough maybe.


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goldfish21
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20 Jan 2018, 6:29 pm

Kiprobalhato wrote:
i would be more easily able to change my diet if i lived by myself and did all my grocery shopping, which i don't. i don't have as much control as to what ends up in my fridge as perhaps you do. still i've learned to manage my symptoms and "normalize" myself through other means.


i also think this place isn't a totally accurate representation of the entire ASD community.... for one there is a glaring lack of hispanics. clearly those without internet access are also not represented....if we were talking about ASD people in anglo countries only, then it would be more thorough maybe.


I'm able to better stick to my restricted diet when there isn't junk food in the house at all. I don't tend to buy much junk food, but others may or they may bake some cookies at Christmas time etc and then I will tend to eat some of it & suffer the consequences short term. In the grand scheme of things I buy my own groceries and usually make myself separate meals from the rest of the household, or I'll only eat some of the things they do etc. So, I get that what's available can influence what you eat.

Why are you not able to control what's available for you to consume if you wanted to eat a different, medicinal, or restricted diet? Can you not do your own shopping? Or if someone else must do it, can they not shop based on your list? Surely if you had a food allergy or hated some particular food and someone else had to do the shopping they'd be able to accommodate those needs. Why wouldn't they be able to do so if you decided to eat a different diet for any reason? Whether a medicinal diet like I did, or a different diet of any sort - even a fad weight loss diet, ie Paleo diet or whatever. Or the GAPS diet as defined in the book. Or any other altered diet from what you eat now. Why wouldn't you be able to control that if you wanted to? :?

Fair. I hadn't even considered the fact that non-English speakers aren't likely to be here. Who knows, maybe non-English speakers are a better audience for learning about how to treat symptoms via diet & natural medicinal foods etc as people from other cultures may be more likely to have been raised in a medicine culture that relies on food/natural medicines (Ayurvedic medicine in India, or Chinese medicine in China) & are more likely to be skeptical of Western Medicine's pharmaceuticals vs. the typical North American who's more likely to reject food/natural medicines & instantly accept a pharmaceutical pill solution to what ails them. Hmmm, even within Canada & the USA, perhaps non-English speaking, or at least those raised with Eastern influences, would be far more receptive to what I have to share. Hmmm.


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LittleCoyoteKat
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20 Jan 2018, 9:11 pm

BeaArthur wrote:
When I was a mental health counselor and case manager, I found many/most of my clients were accepting of help. But a few could only be called "help-rejecting complainers." They didn't want to ever get any better; the result they were hoping for was attention. If they ever DID get better, they would lose that attention. I guess this probably arises in people whose parents only treated them well when they were sick or suffering?

One of my clients became disillusioned with me and asked to transfer to a different therapist. REJOICE! That was fine with me! (I think he was expecting me to be hurt or something - no way!)

I see some of the same dynamic here on WP. My choice has been not to engage with them, because it is futile and my dislike of their intransigent passivity and self-defeating behavior would be sure to reflect badly on me.


^^^ This, with an addition... There are a good number of people who are comfortable in their misery because it is familiar, despite their complaints. Think of it as a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Some people even appreciate (I won't say enjoy, because that's too conflicting) their misery and problems because it gives them some kind of meaning, validity, or direction in life and without them they would feel rudderless and afraid. They wouldn't know what to do with themselves. So as much as they hate their misery, it sustains them in a very damaging and sad way.
And of course, we have the ones who are so chronically lazy that any extra effort is immediately dismissed because being miserable is "easier".


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20 Jan 2018, 10:33 pm

LittleCoyoteKat wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
When I was a mental health counselor and case manager, I found many/most of my clients were accepting of help. But a few could only be called "help-rejecting complainers." They didn't want to ever get any better; the result they were hoping for was attention. If they ever DID get better, they would lose that attention. I guess this probably arises in people whose parents only treated them well when they were sick or suffering?

One of my clients became disillusioned with me and asked to transfer to a different therapist. REJOICE! That was fine with me! (I think he was expecting me to be hurt or something - no way!)

I see some of the same dynamic here on WP. My choice has been not to engage with them, because it is futile and my dislike of their intransigent passivity and self-defeating behavior would be sure to reflect badly on me.


^^^ This, with an addition... There are a good number of people who are comfortable in their misery because it is familiar, despite their complaints. Think of it as a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Some people even appreciate (I won't say enjoy, because that's too conflicting) their misery and problems because it gives them some kind of meaning, validity, or direction in life and without them they would feel rudderless and afraid. They wouldn't know what to do with themselves. So as much as they hate their misery, it sustains them in a very damaging and sad way.
And of course, we have the ones who are so chronically lazy that any extra effort is immediately dismissed because being miserable is "easier".


:heart:

I'm going to assume based on your post that you haven't read every single post in this thread.. I've pretty much said the exact same things a couple times over in this thread & obviously agree. Some people seem to be attached to their suffering & symptoms like Stockholm Syndrome. Others seem to be only interested in a treatment if it's incredibly easy and convenient, like a once a day pill, vs. having to put in any effort to cook/stick to a strict diet etc. Could not possibly agree more with your post! (and the one you quoted!) It's nice to see I'm not the ONLY one on wp who has these thoughts about some people.


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LittleCoyoteKat
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20 Jan 2018, 10:42 pm

Guilty. :shrug: :lol: Sorry about that.

I was using Skimming and Scanning, instead of reading complete because I tend to Subvocalize when I read, out of habit (started as a kid to help myself learn how to imitate proper cadence and pitch after having stories read to me, I would go back and do my best to recreate the method and then try to apply that to socializing, it was actually very successful) so it takes me a long time to read anything if I don't focus myself out of Subvocalization. It's almost impossible when I'm reading something like this, a post on a forum or website.

I've known enough of those people, well enough, that they've admitted to those behaviors and mentalities. It's always a little defeating to know someone won't even try to make a positive change in their life.


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20 Jan 2018, 10:56 pm

LittleCoyoteKat wrote:
Guilty. :shrug: :lol: Sorry about that.

I was using Skimming and Scanning, instead of reading complete because I tend to Subvocalize when I read, out of habit (started as a kid to help myself learn how to imitate proper cadence and pitch after having stories read to me, I would go back and do my best to recreate the method and then try to apply that to socializing, it was actually very successful) so it takes me a long time to read anything if I don't focus myself out of Subvocalization. It's almost impossible when I'm reading something like this, a post on a forum or website.

I've known enough of those people, well enough, that they've admitted to those behaviors and mentalities. It's always a little defeating to know someone won't even try to make a positive change in their life.


Heh, no need for an apology. Interesting explanation on your reading style.

The last paragraph rings oh-so-true of my interactions with particular forum posters here. One individual comes to mind who's had the same thread topics, complaints, and posts of their negative self view & suicidal thoughts for approximately the entire 5+ years I've been on WP. Virtually any of their posts could be copied & pasted to any time over the last 5+ years. It gets somewhat frustrating and annoying to read over and over again, the same complaints, but next to ZERO posts about what they've done to try to treat their depression/anxiety etc. All they ever do is post the same negativity. Myself and others continue to offer suggestions/recommendations for improvement and they fall on deaf ears ~100% of the time. Now it's gotten to a point where when I see a BS post I just point blank call it BS & explain why it is such. Others remain superhumanly patient with this poster. I don't think they've ever admitted on the forums that they're, in some ways, keeping themselves in the state they're in. From their posts it seems they haven't been willing to try much of anything to change their state of mind, self perception, world view etc. They seem to just thrive on the attention they get for complaining. I can't imagine wanting to stay that way.


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LittleCoyoteKat
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20 Jan 2018, 11:04 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Heh, no need for an apology. Interesting explanation on your reading style.


While the cadence imitation was successful, the rest is still a challenge, so I have no idea exactly how to respond to that or even if I'm supposed to. At least at this point in my life, my social ineptitude is amusing from time to time, like right now.

goldfish21 wrote:
The last paragraph rings oh-so-true of my interactions with particular forum posters here. One individual comes to mind who's had the same thread topics, complaints, and posts of their negative self view & suicidal thoughts for approximately the entire 5+ years I've been on WP. Virtually any of their posts could be copied & pasted to any time over the last 5+ years. It gets somewhat frustrating and annoying to read over and over again, the same complaints, but next to ZERO posts about what they've done to try to treat their depression/anxiety etc. All they ever do is post the same negativity. Myself and others continue to offer suggestions/recommendations for improvement and they fall on deaf ears ~100% of the time. Now it's gotten to a point where when I see a BS post I just point blank call it BS & explain why it is such. Others remain superhumanly patient with this poster. I don't think they've ever admitted on the forums that they're, in some ways, keeping themselves in the state they're in. From their posts it seems they haven't been willing to try much of anything to change their state of mind, self perception, world view etc. They seem to just thrive on the attention they get for complaining. I can't imagine wanting to stay that way.


:( Well that's no good. I've browsed all over this forum since I got here, read a lot of posts I don't comment on, and I might know who you're referencing. If it is the same person, it really saddens me, actually. I'm not sure why it has an effect on me more so than if it were another member, I think it's because in certain ways they remind me of someone I knew a long time ago that I cared about.
I think maybe they do thrive on it. But I don't think that's the sole motivation. My Grandmother was one of those, she complained entirely for attention, and when that's your only motivation it's so very wildly obvious that your only reaction is to roll your eyes and just leave the room.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Jan 2018, 11:31 pm

It’s also because this particular person has good qualities, which every potential lover could admire.

The trouble is: he tends to catastrophize things, and otherwise take negative thoughts to extremes—to a ridiculous extent. And he gets bogged down in statistics. And he make general statements which are not based upon actual experience.

But....he always has a hug for anyone who needs it



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20 Jan 2018, 11:35 pm

if someone wants attention, I will give them attention, it's the least I can do.



bobaspie2015
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21 Jan 2018, 12:07 am

Hi Mr. Goldfish21,
Wow such an inspiring post. My God I wish there were more people on this wonderful earth that had the same thoughts/beliefs.
I have spent quite a few years working with people who identify as having a 'mental illness.'
OK so sure they may have a mental illness, but is it wise to focus on the illness alone?
In my opinion the answer has to be a BIG NO.
However they just go on and on and on and on. If you get my drift.
I live with ASD (high functioning autism) I only found out 3 years ago at the young age of 55 and hence forth my life made so much more sense.
I have experienced so much in my life as I am sure you have also.

Much love.

Bob



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21 Jan 2018, 12:10 am

Hi Goldfish21,
Wow such an inspiring post. My God I wish there were more people on this wonderful earth that had the same thoughts/beliefs.
I have spent quite a few years working with people who identify as having a 'mental illness.'
OK so sure they may have a mental illness, but is it wise to focus on the illness alone?
In my opinion the answer has to be a BIG NO.
However they just go on and on and on and on. If you get my drift.
I live with ASD (high functioning autism) I only found out 3 years ago at the young age of 55 and hence forth my life made so much more sense.
I have experienced so much in my life as I am sure you have also.

Much love.

Bob



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21 Jan 2018, 12:29 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s also because this particular person has good qualities, which every potential lover could admire.

The trouble is: he tends to catastrophize things, and otherwise take negative thoughts to extremes—to a ridiculous extent. And he gets bogged down in statistics. And he make general statements which are not based upon actual experience.

But....he always has a hug for anyone who needs it


Yep. He does not seem like a bad person at all. I genuinely want him to think better thoughts & feel better emotions. I don't care if he never reads a book I offered to buy for him or tries any of the things that have worked for me. I'm a-okay with him using any other method under the sun to feel better - I just wish he'd take some steps towards doing anything for himself that would result in him thinking & feeling better vs. continuing down the same path that isn't getting him any sort of positive or beneficial results. I'd be ecstatic for him to read he'd Tried something, anything, and it worked for him. Even though my recent posts towards him are very likely a bit dick-ish, I am still always open to helping him with anything I know/can do/can recommend etc especially if he's open to learning any of the things I have. This isn't a "because I want to be right," thing at all, rather a "learning these things worked for me, maybe they will for him too." And no, not specifically my diet nor extreme protocol, either. Things like reading a book and learning some things from it. Maybe trying epsom salts to see if there's a medcinal benefit to using them as there is for myself etc. The very first step basics kind of things. OR something entirely different of his own choosing or someone else' recommendation - absolutely anything that helps would be nice to read about vs. the same self hating & suicidal posts. I'm not gonna lie, I see a lot of my past self in his posts, and that's one of the reasons why I'd like to see him & his posts change for the better. No one deserves to be kept in such a mental prison for so long, especially when there are many different treatment options available. Mmmmmaybe someday he'll decide that enough is enough and start to learn and heal, grow & change. I hope so, anyways.


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21 Jan 2018, 12:33 am

the poor thing can't get past some issues. it is like he put all his hopes and wishes into one particular life path to the extent of other equally valid life paths, and won't consider letting himself be happy with any other. :(



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21 Jan 2018, 12:39 am

bobaspie2015 wrote:
Hi Mr. Goldfish21,
Wow such an inspiring post. My God I wish there were more people on this wonderful earth that had the same thoughts/beliefs.
I have spent quite a few years working with people who identify as having a 'mental illness.'
OK so sure they may have a mental illness, but is it wise to focus on the illness alone?
In my opinion the answer has to be a BIG NO.
However they just go on and on and on and on. If you get my drift.
I live with ASD (high functioning autism) I only found out 3 years ago at the young age of 55 and hence forth my life made so much more sense.
I have experienced so much in my life as I am sure you have also.

Much love.

Bob


Thanks! :)

I didn't realize I was on the spectrum until approx 29 years of age, and then a year or so later figured out how to actually treat all of these symptoms. At 29/30 my biggest fear was that this was it.. a downward spiral of brain functions until I wasn't capable of doing anything in life. That fear motivated me to learn & do as much as I could as fast as I could. I figured out how to treat myself, did it/continue to, and now life is night & day different for the better and the possibilities of the future just keep growing larger & brighter.

At 55 maybe you don't quite have the same career/financial motivations to Try to change, I get that, but, what if you live to 100? You could have another 45 years of life left to live. Even if it's 30 years, it's Thirty Years, & IMO worth optimizing by any and all means, if you're someone who wants that. *shrug* just my take on things. I have relatives in their late 60's who refuse to attempt to change much as they're so set in their ways and their depression makes them believe there's no point, that they'll never have a career or make any big impact on the world, and to that I say so what if you never ever work, attend school, start a business etc ever again? Wouldn't you rather be happier in your retirement years vs. anxious/depressed/experiencing mood swings etc? I know I would. But that's me & none of them have opted to attempt to change one thing about themselves or their health beyond following doctors orders to pop pharmaceutical drugs to try to balance them out so they can tolerate life and others can tolerate them. To each their own, that's just not the way for me.


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