I've been offered the COVID vaccine

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Our government rationalised their original advise not to bother with masks by claiming they needed to deter the public from buying up all of the masks when they were still in short supply and needed for front line NHS workers. They could have just told us this though at the time instead of leaving everybody wondering why masks were supposed to work in hospitals (in terms of Covid) and not anywhere else.

As with most things like this, it's rarely a case of "Do work" or "Don't work" full stop, it's percentages or numbers with no context or "can work" which means the same as "might not work", "inconclusive evidence" or "we're just telling you what our pay masters are telling us to tell you".

We had the longest trial in British history recently to determine that 96 people were unlawfully killed by health and safety and police failures 30 years ago. It's taken that long for them to accept what many of us knew from day one. Then two years later we had a judge rule that nobody should be brought to trial in front of a jury and found guilty and that's the end of the matter, no right to appeal, because we're protecting people in the system and we're in charge, you can just go away and forget about it now. I'm anticipating we'll have a trial like this related to Covid in three decades time with a similar outcome. Terrible mistakes were made but nobody was responsible for them. Case closed. We know what's best for you. Do as you are told.

Sure, but limiting the rate? That’s just postponing the inevitable. I say let’s just get this over with.

It’s like how people quarantined during plague, except plague wasn’t mostly spread through the air. Pretty much everyone had to die who were most susceptible to it leaving people who were somewhat more resistant. Once disease vectors were identified along with climate change, the problem almost solved itself. For something that IS spread through the air, strict quarantining is the only way to fix this. It’s the fear of and resistance to political control that is preventing quarantine from being effectively implemented. Masks as mandated by government are one of many symptoms of this high level of control that people fear. Educate people as to how to avoid the virus, leave the decision up to them, and enforce policies that protect the public from spread (such as fines or incarceration for infected people behaving recklessly).

Of course, having a preventative vaccine works pretty good, too. Spreading false information that exaggerates mask effectiveness isn’t going to help. My main reason for ever wearing a mask was really for someone else’s peace of mind. I’m a teacher, so masking up was kinda conditional for me having a job, and I accepted that.

It just all seems like a brainwashing plot to me. Apparently the UK government has already signed something to say that they won't be held responsible if the vaccines go 'wrong' (whatever that means). I know how brainwashing works. You are forced into doing something by threats of your freedom and sanity being taken away and you're bombarded with lies and some truths mixed together, then if it does turn out to be a lethal hoax you still get blamed and told things like "well it has happened now, we made a mistake, move on".

Before the Jews in the nazi camps went into the gas chambers to be inhumanely killed, they were told lies to make it seem like they're going to be having showers or something there, and the people that didn't believe it were probably having a similar conversation as what is going on in this thread.

I'm booked to get mine next week.

I just hope you get it, Joe.

I’m not a brainwasher.

kate middleton got her vaccine the other day
i dont think they would give it to any members of the royal family if they knew it was going to be harmful

most vaccines have conspiracy theorys connected to them.i heard people saying about the flu jabs being inserted with a microchip to spy on everyone and this was way before coronavirus was around

however i dont think your bf should threaten to throw you out if you refuse to get it done
my hubby refused his vaccine but i got mine and weather he picks it up or not at least i am protected from getting ill

Last edited by Caz72 on 31 May 2021, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Whilst there are people that do believe that it is, it doesn't mean that everybody who doesn't want the vax is resisting for this reason or considers it anymore plausible than those accepting the vax. I'm sure you know this, but there are plenty that can't or won't see beyond the silliest possible reason not to comply for fear of having to consider something that might actually be a challenge for them, it's much easier to dial the conspiracy catchphrase cliché and hang up.
I'm Ok with that, there's little point in the likes of me engaging with the conspiracy nut job equivalents at the other end of the horse shoe (the cult of Covid worshippers if you like) but I'd rather those who are unsure or open minded didn't engage with those people either. Extremists are extremists left or right and it's a road off the edge of a cliff following either.

No. If one person can infect 2 people, it means it would be ~1000 infected after ten levels of transmissions vs 10 infected if we limit rate by 50%. or 60000 vs 16 after 16 levels of transmissions or ~1000000 vs 20 after 20 levels.

If you just let the virus spread uncontrollably like several magnitudes of order more people would die without any hope to get medical help, it would be devastating disaster.

I take your point, but phrases like "devastating disaster" could be used to describe an earthquake that's wiped out an entire village of 25 people, or it could be used to describe the likely outcome of a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
Often you hear people who say "If it saves a single life it's worth doing" and then that same person would shut you down as a racist if you dared to suggest there might be a debate to be had about the police re-employing rigorous "stop and search" methods to mitigate escalating black on black knife crime in London.

Who's got the correct perspective on this and who can see into the future?

If this virus is a result of Gain-of-function lab experiments, consider the prospect of MERS being re-programmed to spread as easily as Covid-19. What we're going trough now would be like a toddler nervously pushing itself down a mini-slide in its own back garden compared to what would be, in the case of say MERS-2, parachuting from a near edge of atmosphere altitude into the eye of a hurricane.
I'm just wondering if we've brought our countries to the verge of financial ruin, complacency and panic-fatigue for the sake of what turns out to be a mere taster of the main event. A dress rehearsal should last for about three weeks, not a whole year.

Even if people think about what's good for governments and what their motivations are.. $$$ -> they need people alive and well, healthy enough to work and pay taxes. That's it. That's their motivation to get people to get vaccinated and get the economy humming along again so they can take their slice of the $ you work for, and they can "win," relative to other economies or countries competing with them for $ and power. Pretty simple stuff.

Oh yeah, totally.. except for completely different.

Vaccines aren't killing off masses of people. They're ending a pandemic and saving lives so worker bees can get back to serving their corporate masters & paying their taxes to the government. Pretty simple stuff. Governments need their worker bee slaves to be alive and healthy in order to work, produce goods and services, generate profits, dividends, and taxes.

Depends on the government. The “worker bee slaves” aren’t the ones letting pandemic issues keep them down. However, if you can keep people sick, then those are poor people who need “pandemic relief.” US collectivist interests are not at any advantage by pushing the vaccine. The only reasons why they push it now include: 1. Biden won, 2. Trump already let the vax cat out of the bag, so now they’re doing damage control, and 3. They’re scoring political points with their power base in the process of damage control. For now, they do better by helping more voters stay alive. The right-wing, tinfoil hat wearing, Republican voters are more at risk at this point and, hypothetically, will end up dead or incapacitated for all the fear mongering. The United States at this point is not in a season when collectivists can really lose.

^ Wow.
Are you just trying to shift the social disruption - and required damage control - from the disease to vaccines?

I dont know why but I thought of this video after seeing this thread:

I don't smoke
I don't drink alcohol
I don't take illegal drugs
It took me a couple of years to actually pluck up the courage to take the drugs I'm prescribed now
I don't have tattoos
I don't have piercings
I don't use Botox
I have never been pregnant (even though I want a baby)

Great video though. How can I share it on Facebook?

Um...I’m not sure I understand your question. In the US, there’s a lot of “vaccine hesitancy,” aka “fear,” from people on the right and a crazy amount of misinformation that drives it. You’ll likely see more needless, senseless deaths within this group.

The political implications are that collectivists in the US win because tinfoil hat Republican voters are dying from COVID.

If you followed the news, leftist politicians were staunchly AGAINST the vaccine prior to Biden’s anointment and coronation. Once Biden assumed power, suddenly the vaccine was the best thing since bottled beer. Democrats aren’t interested in saving lives until it’s something they can leverage for their own claim to power. In fact, quite a few of my friends of the hammer-and-sickle persuasion are STILL wary of the vaccine precisely because it was Trump who fast-tracked it in the first place. The damage control that Democrats have been doing since the Anointing has been a process of gaining control over the vaccine. Part of that has meant taking credit for Operation Warp Speed. Another part of that has been talk of a government MANDATE for everyone to get the jab whether they want it or not. Democrats’ MO has consistently been one of holding back progress as long as possible, keeping constituents sick and out of work, and shifting the blame to conservative politicians. Voters who are healthy have nothing to blame anybody for, no common enemy, and cannot be easily manipulated politically. Democrats would not have had the same response if their own candidate had been in office. They would have said, “sorry, we need more field hospitals. We can’t get a vaccine for AT LEAST two more years until after the FDA approves it, and no sooner.” Then they’d point out all the medical debt from keeping everyone in comas on respirators, raising taxes, and finally pushing through a single-payer system.

But we have the vaccine NOW, and everything I just wrote is moot. What I mean by damage control is that they had to find ways of using the vaccine to their advantage.

I apologize, too, that I’m wading too deep into the politics of the vaccine. The point of the Haven is to help people feel better about the situation, not argue about it. I should emphasize that really the only people who get harmed are those who play into the politics. You can cut a lot of stress out of your life by ignoring all the back-and-forth. One of two things will happen: you’ll choose NOT to get the vaccine because you’ll have more peace of mind when you wait and see. The risk is you’ll likely get the virus with a low chance of being hospitalized. OR you’ll take the vaccine and have the peace of mind of immunity. The risk is you might sprout another head or your babies grow up to be X-Men while Bill Gates tracks your every move. Another thing you should do in easing your mind is invest in a healthy amount of humor about the situation.