I'm about to smoke weed again

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The paper from the Journal of Clinical Investigation discusses a synthetic cannabinoid, HU210. The focus of the research is on the effects of this synthetic cannabinoid on increased proliferation (as evidenced by the BrdU experiments) of neural stem cells/progenitor cells, thus resulting in the addition of neurons. However, they also say that "endogenous cannabinoids have been reported to inhibit adult hippocampal neurogenesis. Nevertheless, it is possible that exo- and endocannabinoids could differentially regulate hippocampal neurogenesis, as exo- and endocannabinoids act as full or partial agonists on CB1 receptors, respectively." Thus there is still the possibility that other cannabinoids act in the opposite manner, inhibiting proliferation of the neural stem cells in a fashion like how alcohol and other illicit drugs do. This is why the researchers themselves are careful to say that "exo- and endocannabinoids could differentially regulate hippocampal neurogenesis," not just say that the entire family of cannabinoids does the same thing (increasing proliferation). So the point is that while HU210 may increase neural stem cell proliferation, it is not a good indicator that the overall content of cannabinoids in marijuana has the same effect.

Oh joy, another useless thread on the evils of cannabis. Yawn.
Here's an idea: Perhaps let those who choose to ingest it do so, and those who don't choose to do so shut their freakin' yap and stop trying to rehash mythology. If I had a dime for every time I've heard some non-smoker/never-smoked-it trot out the same, lame, tired, disproven arguments over and over and over, I'd be rich.
Let me ask you... has anyone here blown potsmoke at you? Probably not. So why oh why do you seem to feel the need to pollute our headspace with... well, crap?
In fact, let's bring out ALL the outdated, useless "wisdom" of the ages.
Marijuana makes black men look twice at white women.
Marjuana makes young men grow breasts.
Marijuana makes you stupid and lazy.
Marijuana damages your reproductive organs.
Marijuana causes brain damage.
Marijuana suppresses the immune system.
Marijuana is more dangerous than tobacco.
Marijuana is more potent now than in the 60's.
Marijuana is highly addictive.
Marijuana has no medicinal value.
Marijuana, if legalised, would cause utter mayhem on the roadways.
Marijuana will kill you.
Marijuana steals peoples socks from dryers.
Marijuana makes people double-park.
Marijuana makes people buy chihuahuas.
Marijuana makes people snort coffee grounds.
Marijuana will make hair grow on the palms of your hands. Oh, wait, that's masturbation, right. My bad, getting my myths mixed up. Must be all that pot I've smoked.
Marijuana will make you go blind. Oh, dangit, that's masturbation again. Sorry. Pothole.
Marijuana will make you buy incorrectly-sized socks and underpants.

To the OP: If you have a history of psychosis, I'd strongly recommend against pot. In fact, I'd caution you against using just about ANY non-prescription substance.
However, provided you're an adult, (and, preferably, have educated yourself to some degree on the effects and side-effects, etc) go ahead, toke up. Just do it responsibly.
To those intent on vomiting up mythology and tarting it up as truth: Eat me.
To everyone else, sorry you had to see this. I think I'm done with pot-threads... nothing is ever gained. The anti's smugly spout nonsense, the pro's refute it, but to what end? Neither side seems able to agree to disagree, or to let people do as they wish.

Last edited by diseased on 01 Dec 2006, 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

In regards to the immune system being suppressed. I havent been sick since August . . . of 2005. Everyone in my team at work is sick or getting off of it. Most of the people in my office are enjoying illness. The temp was just -30 for a week. I am healthy?

In response to Stinky;

Which is why (I think in this thread, theres 3 or more) stated I dont put much faith into studies. Although, it doesnt explain why pot may be good to prevent Alzheimers.

What I DO put faith into ARE people's experiences. It seems people with bad experiences on pot have avoided me in real life and have only offered their 2 cents online, though, which is why I tend not follow them and their words (although, I do listen, afterall, I don't smoke crack). As well, I talked to both my family doctor and a pharmacist I used to work with, both expressing that marijuana was not as harmful as many claim. These are the 2 people, in my life, that I have listened to over others simply because of their knowledge AND experience (in person).

As well, many who smoke pot simply fear admitting to it because of the legality issue (in other words, they fear what people think of them AND they fear not complying to what others tell them is right or wrong). My cousin is someone who will not smoke simply because of legality issues - thinking for yourself? Many people you know probably smoke but you wouldn't be able to tell.

Yes, people can have negative reactions and people can have positive reactions. I will never dispute that. However, I will continue to question 'why.'

And until I see proof that marijuana kills or destroys you (which shouldnt be this bloody hard to do so with all the users who do it) I will continue to use it. Again, I look to real life for my "studies" and not so much science tests. And yes, I have a friend who I think cannot handle pot but he can't handle most areas of life anyways.

How can you conclude weed fries your brain? They can't prove it, they've found no evidence, yet. Every assumption they make is just an assumption. Show me people who are dying from it.

I beleive how you learned in health class is errornous. Weed is taught in one way - that its bad and evil. It does not take into account the amount of people who use it (Last asked, 56% of Canadians had tried pot - meaning every other person you saw). It completely ignores them and focuses on a few worst case scenarios - Are we content when the majority sum up people who enjoy aspergers (not suffer ) as "rain man?"

I think your teacher told you of a 50 year old loser, in general, then blamed pot for it and nothing else (education? his parents letting it happen? hello? Bueller? All he did was smoke pot and nothing else? Don't you think thats impossible?) Imagine that pot didn't make that guy stay with his parents. The weed wasn't whispering to him 'Dude, you have to stay here,' he was letting himself do that under the control of his own mind. Do you blame the 'man for picking up the joint' or the 'joint' making him stay at home? Keep in mind that the joint isn't capable of doing anything without your help. Its a case of blaming something over individual.

All you heard in school was the negatives about pot (it's all I heard), but what about how doctors are agreeing on the pros? Anti-depressant drugs have negatives to but they are given to you in 0.5 second while the 45 second commercials focuses on the pros. Complete opposite.

As for not being able to get a job - Yes, at companies that are "followers" they institute drug policies (you can be a drunk, though). I'd say roughly 33% of the people at my work smoke pot (its an office).

I figured out; "there's what you learn in school, then there's what actually exists" - another side. There's a reason this topic is up for debate.

So, to contradict that 50 year old - I'm 24, college educated, living 2600+ kms from where I was raised (just kind of decided to leave this year), I own a 2005 automobile, rent my apartment, and work for a new company. I've saved my money (thousands in savings), pay off all debts, and have never lived 'pay cheque to pay cheque.' I am learning guitar, working on theories, and writing in my spare time and also enjoying the benefits of meditating every night. I come home from work, smoke whats left in my bowl then load a new one for later, which I hit once or twice before meditating.

Now, do I sound like a 50 year old loser or someone on his way to living happily and comfortably? Btw, I'm by the mountains now and have achieved 2 dreams of mine (own a motorcycle (sport bike for 2 years) and to move to the mountains) There's a reason why I'd never be asked to talk at a 'say no to drugs' education system with kids. I'd suck at proving there wacky ideas

If you experience psychosis then I do not think you should use cannabis or any psychoactive substance, perhaps excluding perscription drugs. There is debate if cannabis can worsen or cause mental illness, but it may be best to err on the side of precaution anyway.

That's one reason why I quit 4 months ago. I've quit using cannabis several times since I started use at age 21 (I am 24), and for the most part I have found it easy to do. But everyone is different.
There are some factors to consider here. The person, the drug, the dose, and the method of administration.

You know the best course of action is to discontinue use altogether. But you may slip. It can happen. If it occurs, I think limiting your dose would be very wise. Use very little, and stick to it. Dose once a day at most, but once a week or less would be ideal. Also, you might want to change what method you use to administer the cannabis. I don't know what exactly a "pot chemical" is... Is this a reference to Cannabinoids, or the chemical by-products of a cannabis cigarette? Anyway, you can virtually eliminate tars, cancerous by-products by using a healthier method to administer the cannabis, such as vaporization.

Well, my paragraph above isn't meant as a "green-light" for your cannabis use, but if you do decide to go ahead and use (because you are an adult and it's your decision to make) then be very careful. And consider going about it differently than before, because it seems you got into a bit of trouble with the way you went about it previously. Of course try your hardest to stick to your goal of being cannabis-free. You may want to refrain from reading about drugs and cannabis, as it could cause you to give into temptation. You can do it! Take care.

I think it's fine to look at scientific studies, but it's important to keep a critical, impartial perspective when reviewing such papers. One shouldn't try to make irrelevant conclusions based on the results of the experiment (this applies to both pro and con in any argument). Each experiment is conducted within a very narrow, defined set of parameters, and unless there is good scientific reason to do so, one shouldn't try to extrapolate results and then regard such extrapolation as fact.

Real life cases in humans always weigh more heavily than in vitro assays and mouse models; after all, that's why there is such a thing as clinical trials. I do agree with goomba though, if you're fine without pot, then don't start, and save your money for something more worthwhile.

Saying that marijuana prevents Alzheimer is saying that jumping from a 6 story building prevents death.
Alzheimer is caused by a deficiency of dopamine and an elevation of acethylcholine. In other words, no equilibrium between those two neurotransmitters. Have you heard of the serotonin syndrome associated with MDMA usage?
Serotonin syndrome occurs when there is inadequate Monoamide oxidase in the brain. Excessive amounts of serotonin will cause the serotonin that cannot bind to serotonin receptors(because they are bound to or "full of" serotonin) to bind to dopamine receptors instead. Serotonin is toxic to dopamine receptors and vice versa. The same process happens with marijuana usage although to a lesser degree. In conclusion, an exstacy user will kill his neurons quick and effective while in a marijuana user it is a slower process. This is the scary part of marijuana, because everything happens so gradually.
The reverse machanism occurs when the body over-produces serotonin. It will inhibit its own production when overloaded.
The same happens with dopamine, and Alzheimer occurs...

Parkinsonism is associated with a serotonin deficiency.

It seems like there is no hope in convincing the potheads here to quit so I am going to give a good advice to hold back the Alzheimer and Parkinsons diseases.

When "off" pot for a while, take a low dose of 5-HTP with fruit juices and vitamin b6. This ensures that the nervous terminals arent emptied.

NEVER ejaculate or have sex or masturbate while intoxicated. Orgasm releases high amounts of neurotransmitters(yes! orgasm is a drug) and if the nervous terminals are emptied while under the influence of marijuana, you are sold. Its like leaving your door open when going to work and putting up a sign "Thieves please rob me".


I'll give you something to ponder about, to nurture your curiousity and skepticism: Why do you think marijuana causes these pleasurable effects? What mechanisms are involved?
Think about this for a while...


I realize that it is hopeless to try to convince anyone here to save themselves, but I'm going to try my best from preventing others into falling into the same trap as I did. I wouldn't bother wasting my time here If I didn't have empathy with potheads. So please avoid making that statement again.

Aspies tend to follow logic not passion. You have made extreme statements with
no links to the source of that information. You have given anecdotal evidence that
is of no scientific value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

I don't really understand what this means. Why shouldn't orgasmic response be invoked while intoxicated? Anyway, I think being empathetic and trying to help others who may (or may not) suffer the same life pitfalls as you did is a nice thing to do, but it could help if you backed up your claims a little more? Is this your experience, or did you get this information somewhere else? If you got this information someplace else, could you post the source? It is easier to choose what to believe this way. I still don't understand the purple blood, nor can I find any info. As far as I can tell it was a reference to deoxygenated blood? The less oxygen the blood has, the darker it is in colour. It can be dark red, maroon, or purple coloured. The oxygenated blood carries more red blood cells, which carries hemoglobin, which transmits oxygen which gives the blood its colour. I hope I didn't get this backwards. It's what my old study sheet says here anyway, heh. So this said, everyone may have this "purple blood" that is spoken of (deoxygenated blood?) regardless of if you're a pot smoker or not.
I just couldn't locate the info about cannabis users and purple blood on the internet so this is the conclusion I draw.

Want evidence? Read the book "The chemistry of mind-altering drugs". I don't remember who wrote it.
Also, study some neurochemistry. When you understand the interactions in the nervous system as well as the chemical properties and behaviours of psychoactive drugs, you will understand what I am talking about.
Reports are usually made through observation. People base their facts on whatthey observe in addict, ieg "this person deosnt look like he is having a hard time because of pot".

Don't understand why orgasm shouldn't be provoked while intoxicated?
Orgasm is an advanced chemical reaction, not a pleasure switch. Erection is not triggered by muscular contraction, but by neurotransmission. Ever wondered why you can't force erection? A full erection requires the parasympathetic(rest and digest) nervous system to function. The bodys reaction to drugs is a sympathetic(fight or flight) response where an excitation of epinephrine takes place.

The prerequisites for orgasm is: parasympathetic action, adequate dopamine, acethylcholine, oxytocin and serotonin. There may be other hormones or transmittor substances involved but my knowloedge is limited.

This is also where sexual exhaustion falls into place. Constantly depleting (burning out) the neurotransmitters through orgasm before the body has a chance to build up again results in emptying the nervous terminals. These are then vacant for the pot chemicals to occupy(take over) and when the porosity of the blood-brain barrier closes(as erection resides/reverse hemodilation) the drug chemicals are trapped in the nervous system where they mimic primary nerurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine(S1 and D1) without producing the secondary neurotransmitters accordingy(S2 and D2).


Again, those who want the source of my knowledge can PM me, and I will PM the URL.
Again I do not wish to publish it here.

Dude, the thing is, you've posted no evidence except for apparently references in one book then told me to go read it. I dont need to prove you right, thats your job. I need visual linkage, not to mention in all my personal research, I've never read any of this stuff about ejaculations and such.

And you talk about all this stuff, drinking juices and what have you's, where is this coming from? Why have I, in my research, not come across this? I've read 'anti-pot smoking' websites which should be filled with this information (should even be bolstered) but I've never read any of this.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, though, and spend my extra 5 hours specifically searching for creditable information on these points - I'll keep my open mind

Wait, you dont want to post the links here? Now, I dont care about pot, I want to know the logic of keeping information private and not out in the open - There may be kids reading this who would like to read about these facts and now you're making everyone take an extra step (which they most likely wont) to find this information. I dont get that.

I'm open minded about this but its like if people dont listen to you and your side, they are wrong. I've said numerous times there are both pros and cons and you've agreed about the cons, seemingly discounted any pros, and provided no links to support either

EDIT: I edited this post as I searched for Dangers of ejaculating while high and purple blood - I got nothing

What I had here before seemed to 'I'm right, you're wrong' which wasnt my goal, my goal is truth

If it'll help you, go for it. Just don't smoke too much of it.

Thats the best advice yet! Moderation is the key to success

Daniel M. Perrine in 1996. The book has references . Provide the references for the
statements you made. So they can be confirmed on medline.

Danile M Perrine has no articals on medline on the subject of pot or THC. So that means he has no peer reviewed original content on the subject. So any factual based
information in his book on pot/THC will have references to articals.

Also the articals abstracts I provided were not 10 years old (as everything in that
book would be) in which I showed pot/THC was antiestrogenic. Which contradicts the
decades old myth of pot/THC feminizing men.

http://www.actionlove.com/extra/marijuana.htm

There you go.
He has a PhD, is that adequate for you?


Now let the flamewar begin

Okay I see where you were getting your information. I even saw that phrase "gene
expression" on that guy's website. Since you were honest enough to provide your source I will let others judge on their on how usefull it is to their situation.