It's been 2 months and I'm not doing any better.

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Yeah well, she passed out during sex. The next morning found she herself with a pail near the bed in case she was sick, and me sleeping on the sofa .. that's when she asked me to limit her alcohol.. and I did what she asked. And yeah I think that is basically what caused this is she tried really really hard to stay clean but once she'd screwed up the one time it just cascaded.. and it didn't help that this guy she had had a crush on for ages moved back in across the street from her and he wasn't EVER going to be the least bit disapproving of her so long as she put out.. Thing is.. It was like that book/movie the Perfect Storm.. everything just went wrong right at the same time and then I made it worse by melting down and of course this time instead of having my typical crying and rocking I got ANGRY.. and said things I shouldn't have said.. but I usually have angry meltdowns when I feel i've been wronged.. and I think was wronged.. but I still wish I hadn't done it.. chances are had she have ended in person I would have had a crying rocking meltdown.. which she was aware of..

Okay, it's understandable that you got angry. She cheated. And it sounds like she tried to tell you by phone instead of showing the respect to tell you face to face. Well, people whose lives are in relapse and not in control tend to do that kind of thing and tend to take the easy way out.

And you said some things you shouldn't. Well, you can't parse an apology. I mean, a half apology is usually worse than no apology at all. So maybe, if it feels right, a letter where you thank her for the good parts of the friendship and relationship, apologize for yelling (general, and a lot of neurotypical people don't remember the details anyway even if they're sober), and wish her well. And this need not necessarily be goodbye. This may just be the next logical step . . . just outside chance of getting back together but may happen. A letter perhaps delivered by a friend or family member but only if it feels right and please trust your gut instincts.

(way back when I was twenty-six I felt somewhat better after sending a female friend a letter. we got back together, it didn't work out, kind of wish we hadn't. In other cases it may work out. I'm big proponent of neither baby step nor giant step, but a series of medium steps paying attention to feedback along the way. And logic may help come up with potential actions, but how I feel on the inside kind of tells me whether it's a good idea or not)

Now that I do not believe she did. Cheating that is. I believe she DESPERATELY wanted to have sex with that other guy.. likely encouraged by the fact she'd been accused of trying to "seduce" him for 3 years by his girlfriend.. and then accused by her parents of cheating on me.. but at the same time had gotten it in her head that if she just broke up with me first.. I'd understand and we'd go back to being "Just friends".. would probably see a lot less of me.. and then she'd get to go and have lots of sexy rumpus with loads of guys.. all the while knowing that I was sitting at home should she need me.


in other words, she wanted have her cake and eat it. She wanted to have lots of raunchy unprotected sex with men of dubious quality.. while knowing that there was a guy sitting at home worrying about her who would do anything for her. That's just it.. if she had left it alone and not had sex with me.. and not told me she loved me.. or that she wanted to get married.. she would have had just what she wanted.. and kept it indefinitely.. as I was more or less content to fill that role since I really really liked her as a person.

People generally think temptation will keep rising, but no, it rises and falls like an ocean wave and that can make it easier to resist---but most people genuinely do not know this. And many women are attracted to "bad boys" and somehow scuzzy sex is viewed as more fun than serious sex, plus the allure of something forbidden. Now in truth, some men are attracted to wild women and "bad girls." But, and it may be unfair saying this, I really think this is in fact a bigger issue for women. The remedy is for people to follow the standard pop psychology advice of having an affair with their spouse, and share fantasies, role play, that kind of thing.

When I was in my Christian period from age 13 to age 15, this was just when I was highly motivated to masturbate and I tried mightily to resist. When I finally "broke down" and did it anyway, that made it way more exciting. Plus, I have a rich inner life and enjoy all kinds of fantasies, including those involving dominance and submission. And I felt guilty about this and felt it a really big issue for years and years. Me, who believes in all kinds of humanitarian values and wants to make the world a better place, these fantasies are diametrically opposed to what I most believe in. Well, these days, I'm much more at peace, view them as a kind of ballast, can immediately see the pointless of such things as workplace bullying because they aren't playfully done! As far as what I like sexually, I like a lot of talk and predictable touch, and it's taken me a long time to figure that out. And although I very much like cuddling and maybe napping together, for most nights I very much need my own space in order to really sleep.

See that's exactly what I mean.. Like when me and her did have sex she did things that normally wouldn't have happened.. not like.. raunchy things but like.. I was allowed to touch her stomach... she had some serious sensory issues with soft touch on her hands and stomach and feet.. but because I understood what that's like.. she felt okay letting me do those things. That's how I know how serious she was about this.. but unfortunately I think as you said it was a rising tide of temptation that had to break.. maybe if I hadn't lost my temper and shouted at her.. she would have eventually found her own way back.. but simply put I went to school with the other guy and I know just how grody he is.. and I know how bad his drug problem is.. and frankly it just made me feel like s**t to be dumped for him.

As I told my psychologist.. if she'd dumped me for Mark Zuckerberg or lebron James or something.. Some one with serious money and status in the world.. I'd have been upset but I'd think.. well at least she'll be taken care of. And I do think that the constant berating from her parents accusing her of cheating on me with him.. and then me asking if she was slowing things down with me because of him (though I never accused her of cheating on me)... really probably made her want him all the more... cause she's definitely one of those people that as soon as an authority figure says no she's gonna do the opposite.

And people go with what's familiar. He might have reminded her of either her father or one of her first boyfriends. People do this all the time. Plus, she may not have known how to tell you---you know where I asked you to help me limit my drinking, well, let's put that on the shelf.

Yes, she should have had greater skill. Yes, she should have been more honest, including to herself. But it's all part of a package deal. If she had been more forthright (read: businesslike) that may have taken away some of her good qualities.

Yeah well thats basically it... she has a LONG line of loser druggy boyfriends.. I was actually the first one who ONLY drank.. though she did manage to get me to smoke pot once.. but I didn't like it and didn't do it again.... but I would have if it would have made her more at ease.. not like I had a job to drug test me or something.

I dunno.. I suppose really all this is is me going around in circles worrying about stuff I have no ability to control.. precisely because I have no ability to control it... I've made up my mind though that when it gets closer to spring break I'm going to contact her.. that way if everything goes okay.. and we talk and part amicably.. fine.. but if not then I have a like 10 days to get over it before school starts.

That's kind of what I do, I plan to light touch a situation, but I also give myself fallback time in case I'm not able to or in case things don't go well.

And she might be embarrassed as much as anything else, because she made this plan to limit her drinking and even asked you to be the major part of helping, and then one slip and she bailed on the plan. Well, she may have found what she feels is a middle path and be okay about it, or she may not. (And again, the standard addiction model where there's a hard distinction made between being 'in relapse' and not, I don't think is very helpful.)

Yup, I'm really not sure.. My mom is of course not happy with this idea but it's something I've talked over with my pcych person and while she's not super keen on the idea is willing to help me proceed with it.. Mainly I can't wait till when my mom wants me to do it.. which is after school lets out for summer.. cause then if everything goes bad I have NO ability to get any kind of counseling or anything.. I think my mom is mainly afraid that she will say something which will trigger me to try and kill myself.. but I tried to explain to my mom I don't think that will happen.. since.. if she wanted to do that.. she could have done it already. She knows more about me than ANYONE including my mom and best friend know about me that could cause a complete breakdown. But I'm also a fatalist, so if i'm fated to kill myself over this girl.. talking to her or not talking to her isn't going to change that.

I tried explaining to my mom that it's not as if I'm going into this expecting things to go back to normal, though I'd love for that to happen more than I can really quantify with words, but I also know it's not going to happen. I don't even expect that we can go back to being friends, ever, since it would require her at this point to make to many changes in her life in order for me to let her back into mine. At this point I just want to apologize to her for the stupid hurtful things I said, and then walk away. I don't want the albatross around my neck of having spoken out of hurt and frustration and rage still hanging over me when I transfer to my new school in the fall, or in 10-15-20 years time.

How she will take my apology, whether she will accept it or in the word's of Pink Floyd tell me to please go f**k myself.. I have no idea.. I'm rather hedging to the f**k myself bit.. but thats still okay.. since I will just chalk it up to the fact she's a stupid little girl who ruined a great thing for herself and now has to live with the consequences.. I will get to say then "Hey, At least I tried".

Now, it might be a more vague please go f**k yourself. She might just not return the phone call. And then you will have to decide whether to call her a second time and if so when and how.

I would recommend that you include the apology as one part of three: thanking her for the good parts, wishing her well, and apologizing for being such a jerk.

Now, when she left you, she called you on the phone to tell you, which is not likely to draw forth your best. And you honestly don't think well of the guy at all, and have good reason. It's possible the other guy will grow as a human being (although sounds pretty unlikely!). So yes, even though you did only speak about her future, it was still hurtful because this was the guy she had decided to start seeing. And the fact that what you said is largely true makes it all the worse. Kind of like, somewhere in Europe before the days of free speech, truth was not considered a defense to slander and the fact that it was true made it all the more damaging. (I kind of remember this as occurring in jolly ol' England)

Okay, so logic can help you come up with a reasonably promising apology/reestablishment of friendly relations/decent leavetaking and come up with a reasonably promising set of days and time ranges to call---and at that point you've done your work. And then, in zen-like fashion if you get to the point where it's okay to call and also okay not to call, I think that's a pretty good place to be.

See I think maybe I've been misunderstood or I didn't make my intent clear.. I don't "Wish her well" and I won't tell her that in lip service.. since wishing her well would mean wishing that her and this guy are happy.. which would by proxy mean I was wishing him well too. I don't, I hope she's miserable until the day they break up. I just don't want her to get PHYSICALLY hurt, or to get busted by the cops for drugs and go to Jail. And the thing is, I don't have any intention of thanking her for the good parts either, since the pain and hurt of the last 2.5 months has MORE than counter acted all nearly 2 years of good times as far as I'm concerned.. since no evidence of the good times still exists. I've deleted all the photos, given all the gifts to goodwill and all I am really left with is a half a box of Condoms.. since well.. waste not want not...

It will be good bye and there will be no restablishment of friendly relations since I don't expect her to make the changes she would need to make in order for that to happen.. basically she'd have to do the following.

Change her mind
Ask me to forgive her
Dump him, at a minimum
Go back to counseling
Go back to anger management
and seek help for her substance abuse issues

As far as I'm concerned he's to blame for all of this. Having his limbs torn off by wild dogs and then water boarded for the next 60 years wouldn't assuage my hate for him. He ruined Her life and by proxy My life all for his own selfishness. I realize it was "Her Choice" but had he not been in the picture, or had been a remotely decent human being he wouldn't have encouraged her. I knew her for ages while she was seeing some one else and Never once encouraged her to break up with him. But that's cause I felt men and women could actually just be friends. To be honest that's the part that I'm still having problems with.. since as far as I'm concerned she's wrong and stupid for doing what she did. And Honestly if I talk to her and she doesn't come to see that point well then.. f**k her and I'll re-iterate what I told her on the phone except moreso. I'm getting in touch with her to give her the chance to fix her mistake as much as to make myself feel less guilty about shooting my mouth off. The difference if she doesn't see her error.. well then I didn't shoot my mouth off as she deserved what I said and worse.

I want to go ahead and apologize if that came off as unduly harsh considering how helpful and considerate you've been, I just wanted to really stress that this attempt at getting in touch with her isn't any sort of attempt to get her back because She's not the sort to backtrack on something like this especially when pushed.


Thats the part that makes me so sad, for all intents and purposes my friend is dead and has been replaced by an impostor who is off having a grand time with some one who's not me and getting into all sorts of mischief.. meanwhile I'm back to where I was before.. stuck at home.. by myself.. still without and prospects and now without a friend to talk to.

I simply want to hate her so I can file her differently.. right now she's in the "Love" category.. and I need her out of it.. and so long as I keep holding on the old her that I fell in love with.. I don't think i can do that.. I have to confront the new her and see it myself not just hear it's voice on the phone. But no mistake.. I do not wish her well at all.. I'm not a pop singer.. I just don't want her to get into trouble or get hurt permanently.. emotionally I hope he puts her through the ringer..

Sweet Pea hugs

I'm glad to be of help, if even a little bit. It's a liitle like going back in time and talking to myself at age 26 when I faced a similar situation, although I don't think my situation was as bad.

And if you want to royally tell her off, more power to you. By all means, royally tell her off.

She traded something real---including your friendship---for something phoney.

Now, I personally struggle with issues of revenge vs. forgiveness, and I don't think any religion, not Christianity, not Buddhism, really addresses it well. And when people say 'you can forgive although might not forget,' what the hell is that? That's a throwaway bit of advice designed to make the advice giver feel better. Closer might be where I think it was mafioso 'Dutch' Schultz who said, 'No, you never touch an honest cop or an honest prosecutor.' Or a mafioso or dictator or even football coach who occasionally gets revenge to keep up a rep, and let's that uncertainty work in his favor.

Most likely she already feels like a sinner because our society is shot through with, you're either a Christian or a sinner. And AA and addiction counseling almost borrows this whole cloth and just uses psychological language.

If it makes any difference I was a fundamentalist Christian from the beginning of 8th grade to toward the end of 9th grade. Went through a period or periods where I thought it was important to disprove religion. These days I'll even use religion as metaphor.

It took me more than a year to even begin to feel better after being dumped by 2 friends ( at different times in my life).

Now in retrospect I understand that anyone who will break your heart, isn't worth having your heart broken over. Does that make sense?

Especially for one of them, I also realize I am MUCH better off not having that person in my life. It truly was a blessing in disguise.

I don't want to dismiss your suffering, I was actually suicidal after one friendship breakup, but, you WILL learn from it, and you WILL feel better, and you WILL meet better people on the road of life. I promise!!

It will take time, like I said, it was more than a year before I even began to feel a little better, and it was even longer before I felt I was more or less over it.

In the meantime you must take care of yourself and seek out better people. They don't have to be best friends, but be careful not to isolate yourself.

Ya know what, f**k it. I just found out that two of my supposed friends have been telling her stuff I've been saying so they can all make fun of me on facebook together.

f**k all of them.