Maybe it's time to call it quits.

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Be a withdrawn nonverbal ghost online too. I don't see much point in that.

You have a big heart, Ezra, and it shows even when you're being a PITA. I don't see you as a PITA, I see you as a "gadfly" - you want people to THINK, not just react or parrot cliches. I never see malice behind anything you post. I've seen you get annoyed, and smack people, but I have never seen you be mean to a stranger for the sake of meanness and enjoy it. That is the difference, that is why you're not a troll.

I cannot imagine WP without EzraS. I don't WANT to imagine WP without you.

Please don't pull the plug here. It's horrible that even in an Aspie sanctuary there are unwritten rules and you've run afoul of them sometimes. We should be able to work through this together as a group, that's partly what the Haven is for, that's what WP is for in its best moments.

I'm sorry I'm posting on this thread so long after you started it. Hope you're still hanging around and read this. Hope it helps. Please feel free to PM me, Ez, we can talk about social signals and stuff, if you think it can help. I'd be very glad to help - although God knows, I have put my foot in it here often enough myself.

Warm grandma hugs,

Esme

P.S. you posted just before me, I'm glad you're still here.

Last edited by Esmerelda Weatherwax on 16 Jan 2018, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ezra....in debates, people use what are called "rhetorical tactics."

They don't really believe that you are "not credible."

Truth be told, people like Ezra, Kraichgauer, Goldfish21, etc are tame versions of what I'd really like to be on WP. WP, however, is such a giant censorship board that I've even left a few times because of their policies.

I wish there was a day, or just a few hours, where we'd be free to express exactly how we felt, without repercussions, about world situations or each other on here, ala "The Purge." That would be sweet.

Maybe my workaround for that is to use cryptic language like Fnord. He's insulting as f*ck but got away with it for years.

Kraftie, do you think a thread about rhetoric, tactics, and fallacies would be useful here at WP? I've watched a lot of wrangling and I think it might be... that's not as much of a "side issue" for this thread as it may appear, it could be very helpful to a lot of us. (Edit in: I'm getting "bad gateway" errors lately, have to drop out & come back, obnoxious. But I think I'll see if I can find such a thread; if it already exists, could be worth reviving.)

I think it would be useful. Perhaps even the subject of a "sticky."

Yes. We should lay out all these sorts of things: rhetorical techniques, fallacies of logic, etc. Frequently, they create a divergence from the "truth," rather than an evolution towards the "truth." "Logic" is not the "be-all, end all." "Logic" can exist in the absence of critical thinking and reason.

All these tactics are used in abundance within the PPR subforum, especially---though I've seen it in other subforums as well.

I believe what should be emphasized is that debate frequently becomes more about "ego," and "saving face," than a "search for the truth." In the vast majority of cases, a person is not truly insulted: the insult IS the rhetorical technique, so one shouldn't take rhetorically-derived attacks personally.

Most of these techniques are derived from a Greek model of formal debate. It was especially prevalent during medieval to Enlightenment days, in classes on "logic" and "rhetoric." And, most definitely, in politics.

They are used today in "debate societies," and in more informal settings, such as that found on WP. And, of course, in politics.

I seriously doubt that I would really get any of that and I don't see as I would want to. Can't people just talk to each other without all that? No wonder this has been so difficult for me all these years. I didn't realize that's how people operate on a regular basis.

Last edited by EzraS on 16 Jan 2018, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I feel exactly the same way as you do. Any argument or debate is sometimes locked before it has a chance to begin. And the thread in the womens’ section about changing the rules further will make it worse. This place has become so boring with the same regurgitated topics. Heck, this place is going to end up like Aspie Village with a clique.

They can, Ezra, and they do, but normally that happens when they're really close - and have learned to trust each other - and their defenses are down. It's very intimate, and it takes time to get there.

If it helps any, that drives me absolutely nuts too. I can be very tactful when I'm at top mental speed but it's exhausting, it's like spending an entire day speaking a foreign language that I'm not fluent in and therefore have to think about every sentence. When I'm worried or upset, I don't think clearly about tact. Then I can be a real jerk, always unintended... I did that to you, recently, and still feel bad about it, that's the kind of thing I mean.

This stuff CAN be learned. Every successfully "masking" female Aspie is proof that it can be.

Edit in: and the happily married aspies here are also proof that it can be learned... male and female. MissChess, Kraichgauer, others . There's just so little support for adult Aspies that it's hard to figure out where to start.

(Just in case the site chokes when I try to post this now I'm saving a copy to an open .txt file.)

Last edited by Esmerelda Weatherwax on 16 Jan 2018, 12:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I've never had a problem with the mods except for when I've given people a piece of my mind for trashing me.

I enjoy reading your posts.

OK, well, good for you.

Did I piss you off? That figures. Apparently I excel at that.

I said that because I hadn’t even mentioned the mods in this thread, and it felt like you wanted to disagree with me anyway. I really do mean what I said to redrobin, this place is so boring these days.

When you talked about threads getting locked I figured you were talking about mods. I was just sharing my own experiences with them seeing as how this thread was supposed to be about my personal struggle.

EzraS,

I think online interaction isn't for everyone. People can be very toxic without much consequence, and some have difficulty avoiding those interactions. If you think you're not a good fit for it, then it's good that you recognize this.

But I truly hope that you don't lock yourself away from society completely. You might be able to hide in your room right now, but someday your parents (and the rest of your family) won't be with you, and you'll have to be able to take care of yourself. And if you don't go to school and don't get a job, you won't be able to keep yourself stable.

You've clearly been through a lot of bad experiences both on and off this site, and I want you to know that I wish the best for you. You're among my favorite people here.

As for the bigger issues that have come up in this thread, I haven't been on WP for very long, so I don't think I'm qualified to say anything. But I hope this site gets better, because I like using it. People like us need these sorts of outlets.