Son driving me nuts

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I'm defending her because I believe that this isn't a pattern of behavior. I don't believe she's abusive. I think that she just snapped and lost it and anybody can do that at any time. I think that she has no confidence in her decisions or opinions and without her husband or other family to support her she ends up going one way one day and another way the next because she doesn't really know what she's supposed to do, when she's supposed to do it and how to do it to begin with when it comes to disciplining a child or getting her life straightened out and in order in other areas. On the one hand she doesn't want to be like her parents but on the other she sees how her husband just lets him do what he wants and she worries about that too. I think she sees the kid backtalking and being obnoxious to her at times and not minding etc and doesn't know whether or not to feel that it's her fault or her husbands fault or whose fault it is. I think she doesn't know how to fix it and along with everything else going on in her life that she doesn't know how to fix and can't get help to find out how, it got to be too much and that one incident was the last straw and she snapped.

Someone snapping doesn't have to be a one time only thing, some people have tensions and such build up over time so much that they end up snapping once every few months or years, etc. If you have read her previous posts you'll see that she has tried and tried to get help for many of her problems but she can't because of many different reasons. It always seems to be something when it comes down to getting the help, either it's not the right kind or the therapist doesn't click with her or there is a different problem with it, etc. Sure, some of the problems could be just in her mind or she may be overreacting to small difficulties and blowing things out of proportion sometimes, but along with whatever real difficulties she's having trying to get help the results are still the same - she can't get the help she needs, for whatever reason. It's enough to make you just give up on every finding any help. So she comes here to talk about her problems, where people are supposed to be somewhat similar to her in the fact that not all of us do well communicating (sort of like you and the judge, ya know?) yet nobody takes that into account they only take into account the fact that she smacked her kid. Screw all the rest of it, she smacked him so it must be abuse! One thing I've noticed about WP, even though it's a great forum and the people are for the most part terrific, this place is extremely quick to label anything and everything bullying or abuse. Even people who don't consider themselves victims will sometimes fall right into that mindset that everybody on the spectrum or with any kind of anything different is some victim. Except when they do something that the rest of the group doesn't like and then they are a bully or an abuser.

I understand where you are coming from, but I also understand where Namaste is coming from too and I honestly think you don't. If you have never been to that point of desperation and confusion and hopelessness and such then you just don't know how it feels to hang on by a thread for so long and then just lose it. Not every time a person snaps or loses it is going to be the same thing. She may snap and just cry for a day or two, or she may decide to not speak to her family, or she may just withdraw and stay in bed and do nothing but lay in the dark, or she may be the rudest b*tch on the face of the earth to anybody and everybody for weeks on end, or she may drink, or spend up the money shopping, or attempt suicide, or smack somebody. My point is that snapping isn't always the same, it's not the same for everybody, and losing it can make a person do or say things they wouldn't normally do. Also, someone who is abusive doesn't usually feel this bad about it. Another thing to remember is that what a person snaps about, the last straw incident, may have nothing whatsoever to do with the main stressors or tension in the persons life.

She wants to be happy, she's tried to be happy. She's tried everything she can think of to make things in her life work out right, but nothing has seemed to work for her. Now her kids getting older and being obnoxious to her and not minding and that's always a worry cause you never know how that will effect them as adults. Is his disobedience and his dads permissiveness at this age going to mean that in 15 years she's gonna be sitting at a table across from him in the visiting room where he's wearing an orange jumpsuit and waiting 20 years for parole? Is he going to end up hating her for not making him do better in school or learn self control and self discipline? What is he going to blame her for and will he ever see that she's trying to do whats best for him while his dad is trying to do what makes him happy for the minute and is easiest? All those things (I imagine) could be going through her head plus problems with work, family, her marriage, etc. So yeah, I think I understand her really well.

I know exactly what desperation will drive you to and it's not pretty. The absolute last thing someone needs when they get to that point is folks calling them names and labeling them as something they aren't. They don't need people judging without knowing the full story or her intent or feelings. They need somebody to tell them that they aren't alone, that these problems are manageable, that help is out there and is possible to find, that they aren't a bad person, that they are worth helping. They need somebody to help them get their priorities organized and help them start trying to find help and to be supportive and encouraging when they do something little like just getting through a day without giving in to total despair. They basically need somebody who cares enough to try to understand and to hold their hand while they try to take the first steps to making a better life for themselves.

That's why I'm defending her. If I didn't think this was the case with her, I'd be telling her off quicker than a greased hog. I admit that I could be wrong, easily, but I don't think I am. Even if I am, I don't think a little compassion would hurt anything. I know when I needed it, it was damn hard to come by because I was extremely unpleasant. I'd rather take a chance on being wrong and being a caring person toward her than to add to her problems by becoming just another person who looks down on her.

So, that's it, in a nutshell.

I'm trying REALLY hard not to be harsh... but also address the real issue, acknowledge the real problem, and start taking actions to resolve them.

This is hard for a lot of people because it's so much easier to look in the mirror and say, "I don't need to change - it's someone else's fault!"
Until about 5 years ago, I did that a lot without even realizing it...

OK, so is the real problem to you that she smacked her son or is the real problem what caused her to smack her son? If I'm correct in my assessment of whats going on in her head, then the next time she snaps she might just drive her car into a tree or cut her wrists or something, and going to child abuse therapy won't do a single thing about the reason she snapped. It won't prevent her from snapping again and hurting herself or something else.

I'm thinking that her blowing up like that was caused by something else, that it was simply a side effect of a bigger problem, not something that is the problem. As I said, I could be wrong, but I see this incident as something that happened because of a bigger problem and it was just the last straw. Labeling herself a child abuser and going to whatever kind of therapy they send them to would be about as effective in solving anything for her as would going to AA after going out once and getting so drunk you pass out. It wouldn't address the problem and it would probably add to her stress level and her terrible self image.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask Namaste.

Namaste, is this kind of thing something that happens a lot? Do you smack your kid often (not as in spanking or something, but get so mad you just pop him a good one)? Do you throw things at your husband or maybe hit him with things? If so, how often do you do it?

Now, once we get the answer we can see whether or not there is a child abuse problem or if she just blew up over that when she was actually upset over other things.

Unless of course her saying no she doesn't do it means that of course she does it all the time because we all know that child abusers lie about it.

I honestly don't think she's abusive. I think this was just her snapping. Have you or anyone else here who is jumping on the Mommie Dearest bandwagon ever snapped and done something you regret? Did you label yourself because of that and only worry about never doing that again or did you try and fix the underlying problem?

The underlying problem is the real problem. It's also usually a combination of the persons fault, other peoples faults, circumstances beyond anyone's control, etc.

What exactly would you like to see her do? Turn herself in to the cops or the Indian equivilant of DHR? Go to the hospital and insist on being admitted to the psych dept for therapy to help her never smack her kid again or throw something at her husband? Go to a therapist for help about the blow up and her underlying problem? Hint, I think if she had access to what she felt was valid psych help she would have already gotten it - I'm not she doesn't have access to it, I'm saying that from her posts in the past it seems that she feels she doesn't have access to it and really needs encouragement or assistence in finding the help and following through with the therapy.

Of course she needs help. She's been needing help. I don't think she has any objection to seeing a therapist, at least that's not the impression I get. Sometimes snapping can be the catalyst for change, maybe this will get her into a shrink and make her husband see that she needs one and make him help her find one and actually get her in there to see him. Of course she will have to do the work itself with therapy, but sometimes just getting there is half the battle.

I'm saying don't just decide that the entire problem is that one incident. I never said that nothing was her fault or that she didn't need to change. I'm saying that you shouldn't pin the abuser label on somebody without knowing full well that they are one.

Now, Namaste if you will just answer my questions please, I would appreciate it.

She didn't stop at smacking him - she strangled him! Hands around throat and squeezing!

That's not just anger - that's blind rage out of control. What if she just happened to be holding a kitchen knife at the time of that moment of red rage?

Murders happen that way. It's not premeditated, but it can certainly be avoided if you admit there's a problem and start controlling that rage...

It sounds like you're the crazy person. Do you really think tat is normal behaviour, strangling your son and throwing plates at your husband?

You sound like that you are at the end the end of your rope and that you need some time apart from them. Maybe some time to sort yourself out. Your husband also needs to make a few changes, like being more involved with the son and in the marriage, but so far it seems that you have a lot of baggage to deal with. I'm no expert, but I grew up in an abusive household and the best thing for a violent person to do is to separate themselves from the people they hurt until things blow over.

But if you can't change your ways, get a divorce, allow him to have custody of the child and get yourself a psychiatric assessment or something.

Edit: By the way, stop using your culture as an excuse. Culture is no excuse for child abuse. End of story.

Oh Please you have never heard of abuse
I have read hundreds of worst abuse stories here on Wrongplanet
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt193914.html

And in India i have never seen parents abusing their kids
But mostly on sites abroad i have read extensive abuse cases
How about Darlene Quimet who writes about sexual abuse she endured from her parents
In western countries people marry ten times and their boyfriends end up raping the kids
Its such a common story there

Ok i am not getting updates from this thread....so i didnt check it out earlier.
And today when i checked it out there were so many updates...
My son is going out of control nowadays. I took him to a therapist last week who asked for extensive amount of money to counsel him i couldnt afford so i went in search of a counsellor who did one sitting and mentioned that she cannot travel this far....so i had to discontinue the theraphy
My husband is also fedup with the sons behaviour and is asking me to fix up a therapist for him
He keeps on backanswering and arguing....when recently he stole a large amount of money i didnt say anything
My husband reprimanded him and i was quite all the while.
So answer is i dont smack my kid often...i dont throw things at my husband
I have seen my mother in law say abusive things to my father in law on daily basis....unlike that i barely fight with my husband.

Yesterday i was having a talk with my colleague
Who told me that her son is backanswering, rude and adamant
So she sent him off to a boarding school.

Whereas my other colleague has a daughter
She packed her daughter off to boarding school...just because she was watching TV serials the whole time

Comparatively my son is far far worse off....he has stolen money from home, he speaks lies often
he disobeys and whole day watches cartoon...
Inspite of all this i have tolerated him and one day i hit him because he was really disobedient.

I dont need to leave them and go anywhere...
they need help
My husband needs a marriage counsellor

Why in this thread everyone seems to be sympathsing with this women
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt169215.html

My husband is worst then this, he doesnt take any interest in family affairs
He barely communicates with me
He replies to me in monosyllables
And 2 days ago it was our new year
i went to market brought all the groceries
it was late at night the market is in a shady area
there were criminals and thiefs
my husband didnt even bother to call and find out whether i am dead or alive.
Do you even know what all i encountered on my way to the market
The bus was crowded and as i sat there a man with some long protruding near his private parts
was standing next to me he was pointing that thing near me
And when a women came and stood near that man he started touching the private
parts and making sounds...
I got up and changed the seat.
When my destination came i got down and walked...
i couldnt find the way..so i walked through the deserted road
there were some teens offering money to beggar asking her
to accompany them for sex
they suddenly saw me coming and imagine my plight
walking through that deserted street
I somehow lowered my head and walked off quickly

Even after buying grocery i couldnt manage to get a public transport
to reach back home...
And my husband could easily pick me on his two wheeler
But he didnt bother
So in that dark of night....i was walking alone and after 15 mins
managed to get a public transport

All the while my husband was busy watching the match on TV

Next day i started at 10am and till 1pm i was making the new year feast
My husband went out and took a stroll and ate something heavy
he threw half of the feast in the dustbin....just because his stomach was full

Imagine getting such a husband.
I should throw plates at him daily

And in your western countries they divorce for flimsiest of reasons
After every 6 month they divorce
Atleast i am not doing that........atleast i am only throwing plates

And i will continue to throw unless they dont improve.

Unlike you who have kicked out your husbands with a divorce paper

I am better off.........and i think you are attacking me...
just because of some racism

If I may add my two cents...

I honestly don't see any racism going on here.

Honestly, blaming doesnt help anyone. Namastes posts showed her being sad, overworked, rustrated and done for months...

Telling that nothigns depends on the country or the culture also doesnt help. Because why is she completely done? Because being forced by cultural habbits to marry, when she didnt want to marry, being forced by cultural habbits to get a child, when she didnt want to have a child, specially not with a husband she doent want to have. And blaming her now sucks. In a thread in the womens forum that is months old, she already wrote, that she dont want to have anymore children, because even the one she has is to much for her.

So who of you, who are blaming now, helped her, when she asked for help that could have prevented the situation. I didnt write, because of the cultural differences, I didnt know what to tell. But blaming her, after she already wrote weeks ago that she needed help, and noone gave her a finger including me sucks,

Instead of picking on what is wrong, which helps noone, neither Namaste, nor her husband, nor her son, but in the opposite is more likely to put more stress on namaste, leading to more anger against her family, we shiuld focus on finding solutions. To help Namaste, her sun and her husband.

The thing is: What options do you have in india? In my country it was easy, no love to the husband, no love from the husband either....no sense for marriage helpers, when none of the both affected have a interest into the marriage anyway. So is there the option for a divorce for you? If not, what causes the impossibility? Financial causes, family causes, law causes...? Or if an officieal divorce is impossible are there possibilities to move back to your family, so that you can live separated from your husband?

What options do you have for your son? So you already wrote months ago, that he is sometimes too much for you, and you feel overwhelmed by exhaustion. So are there possibilities to share the education for him? Do you think his father is anyway capable of looking for a child for more then some hours? Are there family members, that could help you to take care of him?

I agree that any form of therapy would be a help for you. Not to comfort others, but to comfort you. The problem is, do you have the possiblity for a therapy, are there doctors you can visit, can you affort it...?

The other thing is: A therapist will tell you that you are sad because of living a life, you never wanted to live. So in europe the therapist would simply tell you to divorce yourself from your husband and to find a good place for your son in your family. What brings us back to the questions what possibilites you have.

I agree with the other posters, that I wouldnt have thrown a plate upon my husband and strangled my son. Simply because I wouldnt have needed to, because of me having the possibility to leave this kind of life, as I already would have.

There is no use in blaming, and there is no use in excusing. And actually noone gets a plate on his head or is strangled, so we have time to focus on finding solutions. And I wouldnt call it racism, but to ignore different cultures of living and different problems is definitely ignorance. As you can read in my history, I am not used to weapons in any way, but if you know about india and the way woman are treated, I never would drive alone in a bus without a kind of weapon, be it a real weapon or pepper spray or whatever. And I really, really hate weapons.

If there is no racism then why i am being asked where I am from??
How does the country of my origin matter??

I could be a savage from jungles of africa or i could be the most civilised lindsay lohan abusing drugs, alcohol, changing my sexual preference every other weekend

In soviet Russia, you no throw plate. Plate throws you.

When we visit a therapist the therapist is supposed to listen to us without any judgement
Because if you judge you are never able to help
Usually they ask for the childhood, past and upbringing

Ok here everyone blamed me without understanding where i come from
Thats being judgemental.

I remember a time in my childhood when i was suffering from chicken pox
and was just sitting and studying in the corner
When my father barged into the room, took a pair of slippers and started hitting me on the face
the slippers ultimately hit my nose, the blood vessels broke, there was blood all over my dress, my hands,
my face.
He kept on shouting that i ate snacks from the plate and started hitting me
He didnt give me a chance to explain that i never ate anything from there
I was just reading from my book,
Later on it was found out that my brother had eaten.

Another time i remember when i was cooking some maggi for myself
My father got angry he took a broom and started hitting me on my back
I kept on crying and wailing in pain and he shouted why i was cooking maggi
at 10pm in the night when i should be eating the rice and going of to sleep
the beatings resulted in swollen back

Another time my brother beat me with dog chain and gave me bad words like fcuk u
the reason for all that because i arranged his cupboard
All his clothes were falling down and whenever i had to open the cupboard
the clothes would fall off...i thought by arranging the cupboard it will be helpful for him
The result scratches across my body due to beating with dog chain.

In comparsion to all this i raised my hand on my son after intervening with him for more then half an hour
He didnt relent he kept on back answering so i spanked him
When my husband intervened and started supporting him
i lost control.....my husband said you are responsible for all this
In that anger i threw the plate.

So before you go to judge others just try to understand where they come from

And yes wrongplanet is not a safe place to express your problems
Simply because you could be judged left and right
without being listened to

I remember there was a suicide counsellor visiting our NGO
He said that whenever we get suicide calls we never ask them how are
you going to attempt suicide, are you going to use a rope or are you going to
jump from the building?

Instead he said that we always divert their mind from the problem
and ask them to focus on something good in their life

Wrongplanet is not a safe place to discuss the gravest of your family issues
because it blows out of proportion by some unscrupulous people

Thank you Oliveoilmom for putting across my thoughts in such a nice vocabulary and expressive way
which i couldnt due to lack of better knowledge of English and probably due to alexithymia

I come from totally abusive background and was beaten literally black and blue every other day. More then marriage and kids i needed intensive theraphy and counselling for which i approached many therapist but nothing came out of it...probably due to lack of better medical facilities or due to the background i come from nobody wanted to deal with such deep rooted issues. Believe me when i say of lack of better medical facilities here.

I was married off at age of 24 to a man i didnt like...he looked quite extrovert and his side of family are very extroverted and funloving with loads of extra martial affairs, drinking, womanising and other issues.
At age of 25 I had a kid in my lap with nobody to support me mentally, emotionally i was alone whole day raising a kid i was barely able to hold myself together. Coupled with excessive financial problems and my husband blowing away all the money.
Friends left me because they didnt want to associate with someone who came from such background. Relatives were jealous how i was able to hold onto things.

Divorce is not common here. I dont have anyone else to go to my family my mother is NPD, my brother voilent and sis in law manipulative.
Due to my bad childhood and other issues i am not able to hold onto jobs i cant make myself finanical secure. Though i have a job now but i do have stress issues.
But i do plan to move to another city after couple of years and live separately and probably put my son in a boarding school. Not now my husband wont relent now.

Father is the one spoiling him, turning him against me, teaching him wrong behaviour...the child should be kept away from the father.
And putting him in boarding school would be the best solution

Yes in other countries they do ask to separate incase they find the relationship is going nowhere or stress is too much. But in India its not the case. Even if husband is alcoholic and beating up on daily basis the women doesnt leave her husband.

I would have still thrown the plate and faked the strangling to bring control in the behaviour of this spoiled people
They dont see the point in behaving morally and ethically
I used to do all the household chore as a child and do my work on my own
But in my sons case we have to keep chasing him to get the work done.