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AlexandertheSolitary
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04 Mar 2007, 10:37 pm

Unknown wrote:
Have you tried YELLING to get through their thick heads?


That might give them a headache or make them deaf. And you do not know that their heads are like that, only that they are somewhat inflexible on one issue.


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AlexandertheSolitary
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04 Mar 2007, 10:39 pm

Tequila wrote:
I very much doubt he has but then again stranger things have happened...

Look, I saw your comments regarding TV programmes in the other thread. If he can be persuaded I think going down the route of gently trying to persuade him (and perhaps by making reference to his own religion) that you do not wish to go to church as it is not your beliefs. Don't get angry or shouty with him. If he needs time to think about it, give him that time. If he persists or isn't the sort to back down you will have to rethink your strategy. Easier said than done I know but you can always try it.

And for the record, I'm agnostic leaning towards but not totally atheist.


Could you explain your title, "leader of the Orange Church," Tequila?


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AlexandertheSolitary
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04 Mar 2007, 11:06 pm

Juggernaut wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Juggernaut wrote:
What if you told them you want to try different churches? maybe they will realize that if they make you go to a church you don't like you will be certain to leave out of bitterness at 18, but if you try some other churches out and like them, you might decide to keep going (Since you've already decided on the Catholic church). They will think maybe you won't stay catholic but at least you will be more likely to go to church. (even if you don't)

The advantage of using this reasoning to them, that you might keep going if you find one you like, is that there are a lot of protestant churches with good music, even rock music, and they are more casual. So at least it may not be as boring. You can stop going when you turn 18 but at least you might not be as bored.


Not uniformly true with regard to the Catholic/Protestant divide, and rock music can be worse than traditional hymns; it is a matter of taste (with regard to music genre, not other religious matters. These are matters of conviction. Maybe music can be as well). Also a Protestant church could have really upbeat modern music and be downright fundamentalist (or "evangelical") in its preaching. Conversely one of my fellow students studying theology who is much older than me prefers a High Church (sometimes actually called "Anglo-Catholic") Anglican service but has really liberal, at times radical views on social issues - she is very outspoken on the issue of the persecution of homosexuals, for example. She can be comparatively orthodox on say, sacramental theology of baptism.

What are the specific issues that you have with the Catholic Church (prepare for a long reply) Tinky? You have said that you are not "very religious," what precisely do you believe? I am not trying to proselytise you, just curious. Perhaps if you could articulate your position firmly to your parents they might be prepared to see reason.


I realize this. I brought up the idea though because if his cricism is with a catholic church, maybe he would like a different church better and so his parents could still be happy he is going and he doesn't have to put up with a church he doesnt like. In regards to rock music, even if he is not a christian, at least he will be entertained. Of course the purpose of church is not entertainment, but if one is at the end of their rope, better that than something they hate.


Tinky would be entertained only if she liked rock music. Do you, Tinky? Also if you did not share the beliefs but DID enjoy rock and roll, why would you not go where you could get the music without the Christian content. Certainly agnostics are generally welcome, though...


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BazzaMcKenzie
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05 Mar 2007, 1:59 am

tinky wrote:
the problem with new churches is all the new people and new things. i don't like the people at my church as it is. we know so many people from the church i go to now

Ah yes. For a moment I forgot why you were here (at WP) :lol:


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Starr
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05 Mar 2007, 4:56 am

I think the 'wear them down' approach might be worth a try. You're aiming at appearing more adult than anyone else who might be making you go to church.
Don't try to tackle them when the're together, they'll only back each other up. Choose the one who's most likely to listen to reason first, and work on him/her. Calmly explain that you can't make a reasoned evaluation of how you feel about Christianity while it's being forced on you. Keep on and on about it, quietly but persistently, telling them that you're an independent person and are now old enough to make up your own mind about it. If they insist that you go, tell them that coercion is actually turning you off the church altogether. That might work. Good luck with it.



Tequila
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05 Mar 2007, 6:13 am

AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Could you explain your title, "leader of the Orange Church," Tequila?


I class Churches on here to be distinct from real life churches.

(Basically, I'm really agnostic but am just doing the Orange church for a bit of a laugh.)

:)



AlexandertheSolitary
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08 Mar 2007, 12:43 am

Starr wrote:
I think the 'wear them down' approach might be worth a try. You're aiming at appearing more adult than anyone else who might be making you go to church.
Don't try to tackle them when the're together, they'll only back each other up. Choose the one who's most likely to listen to reason first, and work on him/her. Calmly explain that you can't make a reasoned evaluation of how you feel about Christianity while it's being forced on you. Keep on and on about it, quietly but persistently, telling them that you're an independent person and are now old enough to make up your own mind about it. If they insist that you go, tell them that coercion is actually turning you off the church altogether. That might work. Good luck with it.


Good advice!


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AlexandertheSolitary
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08 Mar 2007, 12:44 am

Tequila wrote:
AlexandertheSolitary wrote:
Could you explain your title, "leader of the Orange Church," Tequila?


I class Churches on here to be distinct from real life churches.

(Basically, I'm really agnostic but am just doing the Orange church for a bit of a laugh.)

:)


I suppose I really knew this, but wanted it clarified.


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10 Mar 2007, 1:23 am

Step back a bit. It is not like you are saying it causes overloads. I hear no direct harm. Dad is trying to do his best for you, and seems reasonable, yell at him he yells back, he does not hit you or lock you in the celler for a week.

Not wanting to go to church is fairly universal at your age. The parent's child starts getting their own identity, but is still a dependant. It takes a few years to change from a child to a free standing adult.

I do not think religion is the issue, but family stability. It is in your best interest to have a stable family. If dad wanted to go fishing every sunday morning, and you tired of it, I would say, it is what you can do to make him happy, an hour a week, so do it. The old man has given his life to give you food, clothing, shelter, education, and a moral framework.

If you are 15 it is 150 hours of community service spread over three years. It maintains the family bond, and your father's sense that he did things right. In a few years you will be an adult, but we lie about that, 18 is not all. You will be free to make your own choices, and they will still be your family for many years to come. He has raised a daughter for five three year periods, one more to go, and you are here on WP, so he did have to work harder than most.

You seem an observent and high functioning aspie, you will transition into life well, there is still that four years at the university. There is even hope your sister will develop better tastes in music and entertainment, we can only hope.

Part of growing up is adding to family stability, mom defers to dad because everything has worked so far.
Churches have interesting roof framing, well done interiors, and you can spend your time observing and learning. Someday when you are fully mature, your parents will become dependant, things reverse. you will have a life, they have one church community. See things as they are, it is already time for you to care for others, the price of growing up.

My girl just turned 18, university in the fall, she treats me well, and we both feel we did well. Now that she can vote, we are closer than ever. She can do anything she wants, so she gave me a hug and said, "You were always there for me." We won.



tinky
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10 Mar 2007, 1:54 am

it still doesn't change the fact that i get pretty depressed before going to church...


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11 Mar 2007, 2:25 am

If you did not get depressed and bored, how would we know you were a teenager?



BazzaMcKenzie
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13 Apr 2007, 2:15 am

Hi Tinky,

have things improved?

(PS - what do you think of this avatar ? )


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