Empathy

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Last edited by adromedanblackhole on 11 Oct 2020, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am confused. Which rule are you saying I broke?

Ah no worries not worth discussing specifics here just a gentle reminder of the nature of this forum

Last edited by adromedanblackhole on 11 Oct 2020, 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I have contempt for the organisation/structure of allistic society.
It is a feeling that I suspect is not in the "empathy" zone.

I have given up on searching out the atrocities of this life system.
Generally, I just don't want to know, any longer.
If nothing can be done, what is the point of embracing sadness/despair?
It is logical/rational not to do so, Mr Spock, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, of course.
I have no empathy for the people responsible for gang-stalking me for over 20 years because of my dissociative disorder.

Education, rather than intimidation, manipulation, humiliation, and segregation.
Now was that so hard, you fothermuckers?

Have I ever told anyone that the human psyche is a toxic abomination?

Hey so:
What motivates a person to post on The Haven as opposed to other forums? They are looking for validation, they are emotionally distressed, they want to be heard and understood

They are not looking for:
Unsolicited advice
A cerebral discussion of research
The thread to move in a direction away from their original post, without anyone acknowledging them

The emotional state is of a person who is putting themselves out to the wider site saying, "I'm hurting, someone please care"

I'm just reading other threads in this forum where people are being so gentle and kind to the original poster and generally acting as though they read what the OP said originally and care how that person feels.

Last edited by adromedanblackhole on 11 Oct 2020, 11:16 pm, edited 7 times in total.

I feel the same. This is why I just want to form my own various webs of people who are like me and more or less tune out the rest of the world

I had the impression, previously, you were on top of the situation.

I can't tell if you're mocking me

I know you are an angry person like me.
I just thought you dealt with it, like me.
I am older than you, so...<shrug>

I am usually pretty good at sussing these things out. <shrug>

I don't want to be an angry person and that is kind of insensitive of you to say that. I can come across as an angry person because it's the norm that when I "put myself out there" for comfort or validation what I get back is a passive, yeah no one cares or worse an opportunity for people to take shots. I can list countless examples. It's exhausting. It's also humiliating to come to a forum specifically designed for people looking for comfort and receiving a general sentiment of "yeah that's nice let's talk about something else"

I actually thought I was empathising with you. Seriously.
I thought you would appreciate that. Seriously.
I can see you as a friend who has gone through some tough times like I have. Seriously.

So, do you accept my friendship, or would you like me to refrain from posting to you, in the future?
I am extremely emotionally disciplined and will comply with your wishes.
History, with my listening to you, is on my side.

Theory of mind is just guessing how someone else feels based on how we'd feel in the situation.

NTs and autistic people feel differently about things in general. I really feel like this is no more a stereotype than 'tall people are more likely to bump their heads while short people are more likely to not be able to reach everything'.

So NTs think they're amazing at guessing and empathy etc. When really, it's just cos they're a majority.

They're not particularly good at knowing how we're going to feel about something.

We're better at knowing how each other will feel about things.

This is why I appreciate NTs who reach out for my perspective when wanting to help other autistic people. I might not be perfect and get it all right, but I'm more likely to have good theory of mind regarding autistic people than they are.

Theory of mind and empathy are literally the same thing but semantically different things. Being good at guessing how someone else is feeling doesn't mean you care any more than someone who doesn't know and gets told.

Esp in general for autistic people as we are often made to feel like not being good at guessing makes us 'bad' somehow. We often learn to internalise that as guilt.

The best NTs don't do that. But bullies do. And arrogant people who think 'if everyone thought like me the world would be a better place, I need to fix people who think differently' which unfortunately is a position that society can allow some NTs to hold when it comes to autistic people.

I get the sense that autistic people are less homogenous but maybe that's because I'm autistic that I feel that way?

The Oxford Medical Dictionary defines empathy only as the ability to understand the thoughts and emotions of another person.  That does not mean that you know what another person is thinking or feeling, it only means that you may have some understanding of those thoughts and feelings, whatever they may be, but only after they have been expressed.

Knowledge and understanding are two entirely different things.

Consistent and unambiguous use of terms is essential for effective communication. It is, therefore, unfortunate that those who write most often on empathy should be guilty of redefining terms simply to suit their own purposes.

Understanding the thoughts and emotions of others demands knowledge as well as conscious cognitive effort. People benefit from personally knowing others -- understanding their attitudes, background, and circumstances.  People must know other's experiences, and this is acquired by learning their history.  Finally, to know a someone's experiences is valuable.  This was the aim of an education exercise undertaken recently in which resident physicians were processed through acute emergency department admissions at a North American hospital as if they were anonymous patients, thereby (hopefully) gaining the perspective of a patient.  The outcome was a visibly enhanced display of empathy among residents toward their patients, with some resident physicians reporting that the study changed their approach to patient care.

So the old maxim that one should not judge another until one has walked in their shoes has validity -- you simply cannot truly understand another person's thoughts and emotions unless you have already experienced what they have gone through yourself.  Sure, you may be able to assume that what they have gone through was traumatic for them and act accordingly, but this is not empathy -- it is pretense -- a person doing so is just play-acting the role of an empathetic observer.  Even worse is when a person claims that their (alleged) "psychic" abilities give them special insight to another other's mental processes; not only is the person (possibly) fooling those others, but they are also fooling themselves.

It is only through enduring the same experiences that we learn how to truly empathize with others.

Find myself Strongly agreeing with this post .

Why do you keep asking us to read the rules? Are we doing something wrong?