"I would say you don't have Asperger's..."

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I think I have Asperger's because... the dx criteria for the many other things I researched do not fit. The adult criteria for Asperger's do fit what I experience.

Why? Do you have another dx suggestion or are you just offended that I think I have AS?

1. I'm not offended.
2. You could also have NLD or schizoaffective disorder.
3. If you really want the diagnosis, then go see another doctor.

I'm not really sure why you commented if you weren't interested in reading the whole thread...

If a close familial relative of mine was diagnosed with AS and I also had the traits and symptoms, I would be suspicious too, Draelynn. Perhaps seeing another professional could be good, one that specialises in AS and autism maybe, some of the ordinary psychs dont know what to look for.

Yesterday was a rather dry day of more family and general life background. My therapist is continually amazed at the grasp I have on my issues and the insight I've developed in dealing with them. I did tell them that I wasn't so sure that therapy had anything to offer but since I'd never been to therapy specifically for depression they strongly recommended it. So far, meds alone have turned things around dramatically. As anticipated. I'm keeping myself on a half dose because it is effective and I'm not suffering the normal side effects to the degree I used to on a full dose. So, good so far.

We got into some nitty gritty ugly details - I sailed through it like it was nothing. I did notice that for the first half hour or so I stared at her shoulder. When I caught myself I corrected and went for the pseudo eye contact. I have no idea if she noticed. She didn't comment on it. She did comment on how articulate, rational and educated I seem. I appreciate the effort - her main goal is to improve my self esteem. A positive compliment is now going to be suspect for me because I know the ulterior motive. I know it was supposed to make me feel good. A compliment for an accomplishment would serve that purpose much better. Complimenting someone on their articulation, rational thought and level of education doesn't really make much sense to me. She wouldn't insult someone for stuttering, irrational thoughts or lack of an education so the sentiment just seems hollow and contrived. Those are the kind of compliments people get when something more obviously physical isn't forthcoming... (that's sort of a joke, but not...)

lol... laughing at myself because that is incredibly jaded of me, I suppose. I've always had people try to beat it into my head... 'just learn how to take a compliment'. Apparently, I've always argued with compliments. Pointing out why the compliment wasn't deserved or at least not in full. People always assume that by doing this that I do not acknowledge the good I may have done. That's simply not so. By acknowledging what more could have been accomplished, I'm preparing myself to do better in the future. I'm not really sure why self critique is always considered negative. The good side to that is that I am always quick to point out all the people who contributed to a project and acknowledge their part. Well, I have finally learned to just say 'thank you' and keep my arguments to myself no matter how loudly they are screaming in my head.

I remember when I found out - the hard way - that other people can often times be most willing to take full credit for ideas and actions that are not their own. Another behavior I'll never understand especially in how it is often rewarded in corporate culture - how it is the mark of a "good" manager.

So, neutral session this week. kind of nervous for next week though. Not sure where she's going to go.

Draelynn, your analysis of the situation is so close to how I often see things, particularly when I need to analyse my working environment. I am becoming increasingly concerned that I more often share the views of females on this site than I do with other males. Perhaps I am an AS woman trapped in an NT man's body. - What a terrible thought. Let’s not go there... I'm mixed up enough as it is.

When I am on the receiving end of such compliments my rationale mirrors yours. It seems to be an important part of NT bonding though. NTs seem to have a need for constantly building up acquaintances self-esteem with, what often appear to me as, obvious statements that no other logical purpose. NT's appear to have an ability, which is beyond me, to be able to understand what other NTs would like to hear to make them feel good. It helps them build bonds and friendships. I am useless at this and will call a spade a spade. I do have to think very hard sometimes and stop myself from saying things that may upset someone. I find that it is often best to say nothing rather than to open my mouth and put my foot in it. I suppose that is these are two reasons why I am not very good at small talk and don't make friends too easily. These are also probable reasons why something more obviously physical hasn't been forthcoming, in my case, for a while and is unlikely to be for the foreseeable future.



I often take credit on behalf of my team for its good work. Does this make me not a good manager? I don't think it does. My team is a good hard working bunch and I am proud of all of them. I do my best to make sure that my individual staff are recognised for their efforts. I suppose that I do deserve some of the credit for their good work, for my part in providing the help, support, guidance, resources, etc. to enable them to achieve their success. I do know some not so good managers though, who are willing to take the credit for successes but pass the buck downwards when things don't go so good. If my team were to fail it is because I would have failed them.

Maybe AS women are more male like? Or, maybe, when it comes to rationale thought many Aspies reach the zenith of gender neutrality. I wouldn't fear for your masculinity just yet, BassMan.



Once you learn peoples motivations for the things they do, choosing a reaction becomes much easier. I think the turning point for me was;

A) in my early 20's I received the wake up call that 'you are not the center of the universe' - I really never had a grasp on other people having their own thoughts. I thought I did. I actually was quite vocal about people thinking what they want to think - individuality at any cost. In reality I was woefully ignorant to exactly how different peoples thoughts were from my own. I didn't realize that my literal thought processes were very different from other peoples until a handful of very demonstrative examples crossed my path. Until my 20's I don't believe I was even capable of recognising these things for what they were. A big wake up call.

B) in my 30's realizing that most people just don't share my interests - or each others - and they are still friends anyway. I cannot maintain a relationship if I do not have an interest in common with someone. Most people talk to each other about absolutely nothing and DO NOT feel it is a waste of time. They DO NOT have constant active thoughts in their head. They do not always have an interest that captures their imagination and occupies 90% of their day. Being totally engrossed in painting and having 6 hours slip away like minutes is NOT common - in fact, it creeps people out. Being 'truthful' is considered being 'blunt' - people do expect a level of social lying to form and maintain relationships. Many of the things I considered 'personality quirks' were, in fact, considered by those around me as character flaws - people thought much less of me for these things and they didn't understand that I did not understand that I was fundamentally different from them. I always saw their 'problems' with me as their problem. I had fairly solid self esteem in some respects. I came to find out that it was entirely misplaced.

Once you can identify where your thinking differs from those around you, you can learn the differences, what their expectations are and how to meet them. The difficulty may be in the realization. I know it didn't come easily for me. Once the process began it took nearly 12 years to make a full circle. I worked on my skills in pieces - as a learned each new difference. I'm sure a teacher or a guide to these things would have made it easier in some ways. But, then again, I was going through this process just as the official Asperger's dx was being introduced.

Practice works wonders. For me, pushing myself into those situations also brought more understanding and growth. That definitely wouldn't work for everyone. I'm not prone to social overloads - exhaustion, yes - but not big public shutdowns. I don't recommend this for everyone.



Manager's are expected to accept the credit for their teamwork just as they share the ridicule if they fail. Say, if your team had some huge breakthrough that a single member was responsible for spearheading - I'd give that person the credit - make sure their name was included in any accolades. Not all manager's do that - I've worked with plenty that just accept credit for ideas that were not their own. Accepting credit for general performance is one thing but taking credit for the exemplary performance of another solely for the purpose of furthering one's self is just wrong. Yet, that type of behavior is often rewarded even if the truth of it comes to light. It is also demoralizing for those under you. And plain old unfair. I have a real problem with unfair - for myself and others.

Oh my goodness, I have such trouble with taking compliments! I see right through them and always argue with them. People accuse me of having low self-esteem and a whole number of things just because I'm open to self-critique. I've gotten better at just saying "thanks" and moving on, but it's still awkward for me.

In regards to an earlier post, I too find it frustrating when people tell me that I'm lying or assume that I am just because, in my situation, they would do that. So often times people read more into my words and actions than necessary. I know that they do this and it makes me really paranoid!

I often have inappropriate emotional or facial expressions too, so that really throws them off! For example, I could be sitting there smiling and telling about some tragedy. To me, half of what goes on in my life are just events that need to be analyzed. While there are some memories that are emotional, I don't feel like I have so many "inner demons" or tragedies that need to be talked about. I'm pretty good at handling stuff on my own and most of the big issues I've already dealt with!

Off topic a bit, but it seems applicable:
I don't know how many times I've been told that I need a "real friend", one with whom I can share my emotions with... in reality, I have a much more logical approach to the whole thing. If I have an issue that I need specific help or advice with, I will reach out to people. But if I'm just gonna blab or rant, I don't see the point. I could write in a journal if I felt like it. Maybe it helps people "bond", but me giving a reporter-style version of why I'm upset isn't gonna make me any less upset. But that's also why I don't think talk therapy is all that effective for me. Maybe one day they'll come up with therapy methods that are a bit more effective when dealing with the "suspected ASD" population.

I've always been much more comfortable and fairly good at analysing my own issues and problems and finding solutions that work for me. I was an emotional wreck as a teenager with very little on the way of emotional support. I suppose I learned to do that for myself. And I take a very rational, logical approach to it all. In part, recognizing emotions and situations for what they are without the emotional intricasies that other people experience isn't common and it is why therapist exist. I find I need to talk to other people just to have a sounding board - someone to provide any additional input before I pass my final judgement on the subject I've been pondering. I do not find therapists to have any deep insights into how I think or feel. In fact, they are very often entirely off base.

Other people like to feel useful in this way though. When you share these personal revelations, they feel important and trusted because you chose them to be your confidante. I certainly do not understand or reciprocate that sentiment but I don't 'burst anyones bubble' either. If that makes them feel good, well, good for them. I don't need to rain on their parade with my verbose logic and reasoning. I simply look for someone whose opinion I respect and ask for their take on it.

So, I completely get what you're saying. Now, if I can only get my therapist to understand that.

So, med check today for the depression. I've only been taking the half dose of Celexa because of previous problems with Lexapro. I never up the dose to the full 20mg as instructed because the side effects are leveled out at the point I care to deal with. The weird thing, the 10mg dose chnaged my mood within 3 days of taking it. That is supposed to be clinically impossible. Within 5 days I was already experiencing profound apathy. From the first dose, I get the weird brain-fighting-itself sensation but after that leveled out, I felt better but didn't care about anything enough to bother doing anything. At least when I was depressed I still had interest in some things even if I couldn't them. Now having the ability to do and no desire is just maddening. I couldn't conjure a creative thought if my life depended on it right now. That scares me. My creativity is a large part of how I define myself - losing it feels like, well, being brain dead. Not that I know what brain dead feels like. But it isn't MY brain in my head at the moment. It's Spring, I love gardening - I could care less about getting outside. Add this on top of continuous headaches, stomach cramping and all the lovely sexual side effects - on just 10mg - and I got a 'wow' out of the doctor.

Since I have a self management program I follow she actually suggested I go off the meds when I'm ready. I was floored. And totally on board. I abhor taking meds.

Strangely enough, I noticed that I had a very hard time looking her in the eye. Usually I force myself to do this. While depressed it didn't really feel so difficult. But now, I barely managed fleeting eye contact without feeling like I was crawling out of my skin. And, feeling like I was crawling out of my skin, with my eyes darting around the room made me even more self conscious and I started losing my train of thought. I haven't felt this out of control in a social situation in a very long time. I'm wondering if this is also a lovely new side effect of the Celexa - an amplification of my usual difficulties or if I've been depressed long enough to forget exactly how uncomfortable those types of situations make me. I suppose once I stop the Celexa and even out my brain chemistry I'll find out.

Well, even if I'm just talking to myself I need to get this out today...

What a royal mess today. I'm wrecked and having trouble not crying at the drop of a hat. And it's all becasue my therapist was - I dunno, frustrated? - last week because when she asked when I wanted to come in again I said 'I don't know, whenever you want." She questioned my reasons for coming to therapy and most of my 45 minutes was spent discussing my reasons. I was a bit shocked, I was defensive, I was hurt and above all I was confused to the core.

It was strongly recommended that I go to therapy for depression. It was told at intake that I can't possibly know all my issues and therapy is to help sort them out and deal with them. I know all my issues. Clearly and distinctly. I have tried many different methods to handle different situations to find the ones that work. I've been in therapy for two months and my therapist says 'it seems like you've identified all of your issues so why are you here?'. That was what I said at the beginning but the intake therapist, the psychiatrist and the therapist all denied it. Every timeshe suggests something I could try to change my situation I tell her my reasons why it won't work. I've tried most of what she suggests already. She tells me I'm making excuses.

She wants to know what I want to get out of therapy. I have no idea. What is therapy supposed to do? It was so strongly recommended so I assumed that at some point she would tell me what the deal was. I've just been answering her questions, waiting for the point. I never realized that there wasn't a point. What am I supposed to expect from therapy? Is the act of talking alone considered therapy? If so, I am not not capable of 'getting it' - that makes no sense to me. I'm simply regurgitating all the things I've already worked out for myself. I don't get it and that scares me. There is something big here I'm missing. I'm very used to being able to figure these things out but I'm just not seeing it.

I understand she was mad when I said' whenever you want'. I clearly extrapolated why - therapy is supposed to be about me, not her. I'm not there to help her... I get it. But I didn't mean it like that. I understand HOW it works. I'm out of work ATM. My time is free - I could take an appointment at any time in her schedule. That was all I meant. I even explained that but it's almost like I didn't even say the words. My explanation made no difference, it had no effect. We spent 45 minutes discussing my excuses and my inflexibility and my reluctance to try something different... I do not understand and she does not seem to comprehend what those words means. How many ways are there to say "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND'? How can I be any more clear?

And why have most people in my life done the exact same thing? Why are my reasons always called excuses? Clearly I do not understand the definition of excuse then - it must mean something other than what I think it means.

The only common thing in all of this is me. It HAS to be me.

Okay - I haven't felt this low about myself in a very long time. I'm pretty sure therapy isn't supposed to do that. And I'll spend the entire day trying to figure out what the hell happened.

draelynn: I don't suppose there is anything that any of us can say to help you over your hurt. I don't know about your situation and your particular issues, but I do understand how you feel.

((Hugs))

I know this probably won't be a helpful response, but I just wanted to say that I can relate. I tried therapy for a good half-year and I really didn't see what the big deal was. I think the point is that you go in to talk about your problems and that magically allows you to understand and cope with them better. I believe that therapy is based on the idea that, if you only have someone that cares and will listen to you, then it'll all be okay. The problem, though, is that it makes a lot of assumptions and, quite honestly, I don't think it works for everyone. As you already mentioned, you are quite capable of identifying, analyzing, and coping with your problems on your own.

What I'd suggest is that you speak with the therapist and ask her to explain her methodology and what she has been trained to do.

My boyfriend went in for treatment for ADHD and essentially gave his therapist an ultimatum... if he didn't see a point to the therapy or didn't understand why certain information was being asked, he was gonna stop coming altogether. So, what he did was that he got his therapist to spend an entire session on how and why therapy is supposed to help.

I don't know if that would work for you, or if you are required to go, but it might be worth a try.

If not, then you just need to accept that therapy (read: traditional talk therapy) might just not be for you. Are there any types of therapy you can consider?

bassman, syrella - thank you both for the kind words.

Being that I was so confused today, I did what I always do when I find myself grossly ignorant it a situation - I researched it. That is really all there is to talk therapy - talk about your problems and discuss ways to change your situation. I'm just kind of flabbergasted. People go to college for this? I just assumed as a trained professional that a therapist would be using some deeper methodology. That's one of my fatal flaws. I always assume more of people and situations than is actually there. I always believe that people think more, feel more, are smarter and more involved and interested than they really are. I've always assumed an educated person knows so much more than they ever really do.

I know better rationally but in practice, I'm still an idiot.

I'm fairly certain this reaction I had and am still having is a concrete sign that this type of therapy isn't for me. And now that I know that it really has no point, I will definitely not let myself be talked into it yet again. I'll go next week and give her the report on my reaction. I would like an explanation as to why she was almost confrontational today.

It's getting much clearer that there really is no help for me. If people cannot infer my meaning and intentions from even the most basic of words, communication is pointless.

The funny thing - she recommended I get off the computer and into a support group to 'connect' with real people. And they she goes on to use our 'connection' as an example. What connection? I talk to her for 45 minutes per week. What connection?

I just don't get it. And I doubt I ever will.

Holy--that fits me to a T. O_O

Yeah but you gotta realize that with the AS, most of the time, they don't know how you act at home or in public. A lot of people are like that with me. My mom could tell them I am autistic and I know people are thinking, "but she doesn't look autistic..." and that's because most people think autism can only be classic. If there are mild to moderate forums, they get less attention and more people don't realize that people can be on any end of the spectrum.

So for a mild form of autism, the person, even professionals, always make this mistake. If they don't see you enough to make that diagnosis, they are bound to say you don't have it. I was lucky because I was diagnosed around nine or so. They ran countless tests and found I had it. So there was nothing for them to sit there and deny when the evidence is right there in plain sight.

Gosh! You are so like me on certain things. I have a similar view of therapists. I am seeing a therapist jointly with my wife (NT) at the moment and, while I think much like you, my wife is benefitting greatly to such an extent that my quality of life has improved as a result. Having said that, our therapist is on the spectrum and knows where I am coming from and is able to advise my wife about why I behave and reason as I do in certain situations, which is more than I can. There is no help for us in Hong Kong so we are communicating with her in the UK through Skype. If you wish, I could PM her contact details.

As you know, I have only recently discovered my own AS. I am learning that I can take perceive some situations as confrontational that are not intended to be. I often feel told off in general conversation, for no apparent reason. I am trying to come to grips with this. I don't experience this in the work place and I don't understand what is different.

I often rationalise through things after they have occured and end up feeling like an idiot. I have come to the conclusion that I can't reason through things well in real time I can jump to the wrong conclusion based on partial or incorrect information that is readily picked up without problem by NTs. Again, I do not have this problem in the workplace, where I can refer to written records before comming to a conclusion. I am working on addressing the domestic situation by asking questions rather than making, what ought to be, simple assumptions. Sometimes I get clarification, sometimes I get scolded for being an idiot, for not understanding the obvious. (but that may just be me thinking that things are confrontational).