Verbal Communications Differences and Difficulties Sticky

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We are looking into getting an alphasmart for UbbyUbbyUbby because his handwriting is poor and causes him great anxiety. He types his homework and they let him type as much as possible at school but access to their computer is limited.

As always LabPet you're the voice of wisdom. As I keep saying .... when you've finished your studies you need to write a book about autism!

Helen

I just checked out the link and saw your Dana. It was good to see a photo of it.

In Australia we are lucky to get a carer's allowance ... any parent of a child with Asperger's gets this allowance. We receive $90 per fortnight, plus an annual bonus payment of $1000.

It means we don't have to stress about buying him equipment he needs.

I'll have to take my husband and UbbyUbbyUbby shopping soon for an alphasmart for school.

Helen

Wow, thank you Helen - that's just too nice.

About UbbyUbbyUbby; I had/have lousy handwriting too. The great part about AlphaSmart is this problem, with the anxiety, is subtracted. I guess learning good handwriting is important and I've improved, but communication is the ultimate goal. AlphaSmart has keyboards just for grade-schoolers (& special needs) since computers are fragile/expensive and not always accessible. A DANA or NEO can withstand a lot! I've dropped mine and it's still fine.

Thank you for the update.

Wow! a special silent forum. This is cool. I don't know if I qualify as partially mute or not. I have a horrible time expressing myself verbally quite often. Most days either I can manage to get enough out that the other person can at least kind of understand or I just shrug and say sorry. Other days I talk better, not perfect, but enough to get by. I don't have any fancy equipment to help me (I wish I did). All I have are phrase cards that I make in my spare time...just simple things that I cannot always get out in a conversation, and I also have an erase board that I take every where with me. Lol. I love my board.

I discussed it with him and he is very worried about having a keyboard. I guess it's the anxiety of something new. I'll take him to the shops to have a look, but I won't force it on him ... he'll let me know when he's ready.

I've told him LabPet has one which perked up his interested a bit!

All his teachers have been really relaxed about his poor handwriting. They've all said that most communication is done via typing/computers so handwriting is not that big an issue.

His handwriting has improved a lot this year in that you can actually read what he's written .... but it's still quite bad.

Helen

I also use phrase cards, mostly for bus journeys where it is not possible to buy a travelcard in advance. Sometimes to show till operators before they do a slight double-take then ignore me.

On an unrelated topic, I would like to ask a question:

Why do people sing?

This has always completely baffled me.

Do you sing? If so, why?

I can understand the concept of singing as a way of pledging solidarity with a group, for instance, in a national anthem. At school it was necessary to sing during assemblies, mostly hymns and folk songs. Once a teacher remarked upon my singing into my sleeve, which was ridiculous, since I only held my sleeve to my face to disguise the very fact that I was not singing at all.

Also, why do people walk around humming things? Contrary to popular belief I do not want everyone to live in a world of silence. Yet I do not understand why people choose to sing things. Sometimes not even insightful lyrics, just 'diddly diddly'.

All answers welcome.

ViatorRose: I shall write more later (interesting question...) but as a quick answer for now - I don't know!

I have, at times, been chastised for this - I do not sing. At all. Ever. Just don't and it never occurs to me. My mother had a beautiful singing voice (as I understand) and, in actuality, my voice is nice but I just don't speak, or in limited quantities. I have no speech impediments. I do have prosody of speech which means that my intonation sounds out of cadence and I 'stop and start' awkwardly.

I don't know why others sing and why this seems spontaneous or natural for them. Just wouldn't occur to me to do so. I do love music! And I like to listen to singing but I have no need to. Odd.....

Good question....maybe others know?

And I don't think this is an unrelated topic!

Just wanted to drop in here and say hi, I often think of the "silent forum" folks

That is all ....

I have a totally different view on this.

I sing, always did so as a child even before I started answering and talking to others by normal standards. I cannot explain why though. I've thought about a possible explanation for the last few days, but I cannot come up with one.

When I was a really young kid, below 5 years, I didn't talk a lot (though I could), ignored strangers and their attempts to talk to me. Talking felt indefinitely hard (as was understanding anyway). But I already sang a lot. I sang in the presence of others, I sometimes didn't mind people joining in, too.

Of course, people probably thought I wanted to annoy them for not answering "What are you doing?" when I played but singing along with sings other children that age could not yet sing.

Singing is spontaneous and natural for me. Talking is an effort, pronunciation and finding words are complicated to me, but singing is not - I sing on key, the words I sing come out clear for once and it's easy to sing them.

I couldn't stand just listening to the singing of others at all until 1997 or 1998 though. (That's when I first heard my first musical.)

To me, talking and singing are fundamentally different on how they work.

Just, totally different. I accidentally (not on purpose) just somehow saved the text of several whole musicals in my brain, of countless songs, yet getting told 3-5 sentences - I immediately decode and visualise them and the original words are all lost and I can't remember them.



I hum too. There's a simple explanation to that at least - I hum (loudly) to handle tension, anger or fear.

Sora - you're really talented! I agree, singing does not equate to speaking. Much like writing does not equate to speaking. About what you wrote: Just reminds me of a parallel phenomenon that certain individuals who stutter, even severely, can be remarkable singers! Just not the same function. Interesting. Singing is a really great way to remember information (such as the alphabet song). I read that most people (Western society) actually mentally rehearse the Alphabet Song, which is 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star,' when they must recall the alphabet, like looking up an entry in the phone book.

I don't know why I don't sing - just never have. Never really occured to me to do so, but I LOVE music! I am very rhythmic and 'stimmy,' especially in the lab. Individual differences, I suppose.

Hi Saffy!

Smelena: This may seem strange, but I LOVE invisible ink. This reminds me of UbbyUbbyUbby and his handwriting, even reticence to speak. The reason I mention is sometimes I DO have something to say, but I cannot. Invisible ink, which is like writing 'in secret' helped me say what I needed to without revealing my privacy (plus it's fun). When I was little, and even NOW, I can sometimes whisper something to another but NOT say it aloud! Writing feels 'safe.' Speaking is very tenuous. I can cry because I know, if I do speak, what I say can be either misinterpreted or judged, which makes speaking that much harder. This is one reason I like the security of having a DANA - takes away that 'unknown' factor.

Sora, this just occured to me whilst writing: I saw a little autistic girl on YouTube who is mostly mute who chants! She's amazing and I cannot know why she chants; maybe like singing or humming for her. I've observed some LFA who 'talk aloud' to themselves but I suspect they are mentally rehearsing what they're to say, which what I sometimes must do too. Practice, practice.

This one is kind of funny: I was writing a note, in lieu of speaking, to the Lab Coordinator this week. I was writing on my DANA and almost fell down the stairs whilst writing - oops! Don't write and walk at the same time.....sigh.

Just to add: I hope Anbuend, Age1600, and KingdomOfRats can post here too - you three are amongst my WP favorites (& NVs)! Hi to you from the Lab Pet.

Anbuend: I never forgot what you once wrote (still laugh hard when recalling this!) about using a facilitating speaking device (such as DANA) and one you know saying it's actually a Ouija Board - hah hah. Just have to confess, I mentioned this to my advisor, who has a great sense of humor, and he thought that association was funny too. He does understand some issues with being NV and autism. He said he's learned a lot from knowing me. Not too many HFA (none, more specifically) in my academic program!

Yup! Also, there is actually a technique called "melodic intonation therapy" used for people with Broca's aphasia. For people with Broca's, speech output is effortful, slow, nonfluent, and often limited to 1-2 word utterances, while comprehension is much better. Speech fluency often improves when the person speaks the words with exaggerated, sing-song intonation. The idea is to increase involvement of the undamaged right hemisphere in the person's speech, since prosody is mainly handled by the right hemisphere.

I know this was mentioned a couple of pages back, but on the subject of language not being controlled solely by the left hemisphere:

I actually had a (right-handed no less) patient whose entire left hemisphere had been removed after a severe stroke (it's called a hemispherectomy). In addition to his right arm being paralyzed and his right leg being weak, he had Broca's aphasia (NOT global aphasia, in which both production and comprehension are severely affected). So he actually still had some speech and decent comprehension, and he could write as well (in fact he could often write words that he couldn't say), all with no left hemisphere at all. Very cool.

Well, I can't speak for all SLPs in the US, but I just got my Masters in speech language pathology in August, so my educational experience is very recent. I actually had a full course in AAC (augmentative and alternative communication) in grad school, but that may be because one of the leading AAC researchers in the country was a professor in my department. Apparently most SLPs don't actually have a full course on this- maybe just one lecture. We learned assessment and intervention procedures in-depth, and one of our projects was to design an AAC system for someone. As you can imagine, that project was a lot of work! I worked with my friend to create an AAC system for a 9 year old NV autistic boy she knew back home. He had been having some difficult with PECS (a standardized picture exchange system), so we used real photos of people, things, and events in his life. We created a big binder of velcroed, laminated vocabulary cards for him, and also some smaller set-ups, like an AAC placemat for trips to restaurants, and a couple of other smaller strips for use in specific situations. My friend worked with the kid whenever she was home from school, so she was able to teach the mom how to use the system (I live far away unfortunately and never met them). Apparently our system was much more successful than the PECS they had been using!

Also, during my last semester in grad school I completed a 5 month internship in a school for kids with special needs- mostly autism but also some MR. Most of the kids on my caseload were NV autistic, and AAC was a big part of working with them. We used a mixture of different communication methods with them- signing, PECS, digital photos, voice-output devices, etc. If the kid wanted to sign "bubbles" one minute, and point to a picture of "popcorn" the next, that was fine. We encouraged speech if the kid seemed inclined to imitate speech sounds or was babbling, or in some other way indicating that they might be ready for some speech, but speech was never emphasized over communication.

HUGS FOR SILENCE!! ! lol. I should make that into a card. *runs off for a marker and blank card*

Thank you Alaspi

roadracer: I know about the limits of expense with regard to facilitated speech devices, but just out AlphaSmart online (International too). They have a DANA and a NEO writing device that works great (I have one) and there quite affordable and very durable! I use mine everyday at the University/laboratory and elsewhere (it's compact). You do write well but, just in case, AlphaSmart devices do have spell-check, plus other features such as scheduling calendar, calculator, etc. You might like! And, as Age1600 suggested, if you do get an 'official' diagnosis you may be able to get financial (and other) assistance for this sort of thing. Actually, I did post this link on a few pages above in this very Forum. You asked about what sort of doctor - if you need a diagnosis try a trusted PsyD or psychiatrist. Do you have a general doctor? He/she can suggest one that can help.

LostInSpace: Thank you for your contributions - quite interesting. Somewhere above in this Forum I posted an online link about Language w/ regard to Sleep. You might be interested in this link since those with Autism are notorious for sleep disorders which is correlated to Language too. At the Neuroscience Conference I just attended I was fortunate to attend Dr. Rizzolatti's lecture. He discovered Mirror Neurons decades ago and his infamous research is compelling and changed how autism is viewed. The Mirror Neuron Theory of Autism is very illuminating. About your patient who had undergone a hemispherectomy (yikes, that's tragic); how inspiring that he was able to compensate! The brain has remarkable plasticity and you are at the forefront of helping those who've had TBI, and others.

I have a very high genetic predisposition to autism and the 'muteness' gene is prevalent......for me, this is certainly a factor. I acclimate well. Also, I CAN speak (I did when I was with Sedaka and Paladin!) but writing is better for me. Speaking verbally seems to take all my strength. I do teach 2 Chemistry lab sessions BUT I have this nearly entirely rehearsed, like a script. And I have most everything written too. Still, after my teaching day (concurrent with my academic program and research, for my funding), I'm quite exhausted. Speaking feels very taxing.

Age1600: I do use hand signals often, even if not 'formal' sign! Those with whom I work (other Neuroscientists) have quickly learned to 'read' me, which is remarkable (and very considerate of them too). In fact, they've sort-of 'adopted' some of my gestures. Such as, if I need the time, I tap the back of my left wrist (I don't wear a watch) - they 'know' this means, "What is the time?" I even know formal sign for Serotonin and Dopamine. Thank you for the link too.

About those who self-injury...I'm sorry. I've done this some too and it's a downward spiral (ie: cutting). But one technique I've done that works is to list (and post in a prominent place, if necessary) are quick/fun alternatives. For instance, I LOVE to stack. So I have a basket of colored blocks and when I feel 'melty' I STACK and this calms me. And, yes, a chew toy does work, such as those for toddlers. You can try squeeze-balls or clay to manipulate. If you can learn to divert those impulses you can make new habits. Even coloring (markers or crayons) works!

ViatorRose - yes, the swing thingy does look fun; I love swingsets. For exercise I have a mini-trampoline and it's FUN. I play music (loud!) and hop/jump. I LOVE my weighted blanket and this does make me feel better too.

Hi, Labpet. I read the article, but I don't see where it talks about how sleep is related to language- just where it talks about the stages of sleep, and where it talks about language areas in the brain.

I did google "rem latency autism" though, and I came across this article abstract, which states:



which is interesting, considering that is pretty much exactly what my sleep study from last year said (though I have NLD, not autism). Along with mild sleep apnea, I also have abnormal sleep architecture, with a mildly elevated number of arousals and "markedly prolonged" REM latency (331 minutes) and reduced REM percentage. I'm going looking now for more articles on language and sleep.