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MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 5:23 pm

i'm sick of everything and everyone.
i keep obsessing over the oil leak that's happening right now because i have fears that they won't be able to stop the leak for the next two months and the oil would get all the way to the ocean. i've always been very sensitive to things that happen to the environment, and anything people do to damage it hurts me inside.
i have some personal issues, as well.
i can't stand the fact that other people look at me and see something different to who i am on the inside. when i try to communicate what i'm feeling inside, people misinterpret me and turn away from me. i thought i've made a good friendship with this one girl i've met through the internet and met her in real life once. i've had her on facebook for a while, and everything was fine, until she blocked me suddenly after she graduated and moved from toronto.
i realize that she might have done it because she doesn't want to have the burden of contacting too many people in toronto, and only wants to keep the important ones. however, i cannot read her mind. unless she explains to me what has happened, i have no way of figuring out what was wrong. and i start blaming it on myself, that i did something wrong. that i came across in the wrong way again.
things like this really hurt me. because even after 10 years, i will remember it as though it has happened yesterday. it really deters my ability to function. i can spend hours obsessing over things like this, instead of doing my homework.
also, after things like this happen, i lose more and more of my feelings for people. i have been an extreme empath as a kid, but after many rejections, i've become much more emotionally rigid.
i simply can't trust people anymore.
i walk down the street and i can feel everything that's happening around me. i see the truth behind everything. i see fakeness, i see selfishness, i see that most people live their life in a state of ignorance. they're so consumed in their own comfort, their own social circle, their lack of ability to think deeper into things.
and it breaks my heart. how can anyone be happy in a society full of lies, deceit, discrimination, and disconcern for the environment?


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hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 6:38 pm

I am depressed as well. When people start to look for deep meanings in things, they tend to malfunction. It's better to just keep functioning without worrying about the big picture. In my opinion, we need to fix people before the environment. If you can go to a psychologist, it might make you a little happier and able to function in the future.

Looking for truth is overrated, because it's just so hard to find, and when you realize that you don't know it, living becomes meaningless, as do suffering and death. And then, what is accomplished? Go back to being blind, before it's too late.

The pervasive selfishness you see in everything is called life, and it is good. Live.

More practically....try to make people happier, when you can.



Amber-Miasma
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30 May 2010, 6:48 pm

I hear you, the oil spill is a horrible thing and I don't know whether they'll be able to plug it up before it destroys great chunks of marine life, but that's corporations for you. I do know that whatever mankind, in its infinite disregard for the natural world, throws at this planet, at our mother nature, that she'll always bounce back. I strongly believe that this planet will be thriving long, long after mankind is dead and gone - I mean, she's been hit by meteors, iceages and god only knows what else. I don't think a little stupidity and greed is going to finish her off.

Your social concern is a little harder for me to work my way around, it's never happened to me so I can't really give my thoughts from an experiential point of view. I have been in her shoes before though I'm ashamed to admit, I cut contact from quite a few people I considered friends because I felt the chapter of my life they had been involved in was over, geographically and philosophically. I do regret that decision. She may eventually too.

People build realities on top of realities, the little worlds you mentioned are for these people their entire life. They're just as valid as your reality, or anyone's reality. It's not ignorance - they simply don't view other paths with much value, or dare I say, understanding. Maybe if they really understood the paths that lie right in front of their faces they'd think differently instead of swallowing the reality society offers them. However this is a bystanders point of view, I'm no mind reader but from where I am this explanation seems adequate.

Chew through that or don't, I just hope it made sense, better if it helps, I've often been accused of not making much sense or rambling on.



MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 7:02 pm

hrmpk wrote:
More practically....try to make people happier, when you can.
i try to do that, but i don't think i ever succeed. i can't really make that emotional connection that people make with others, by means of which they seem to radiate emotion to each other and thus somehow influence each others' emotional state. i can only do it through ways that seem logical to me, ways that i can relate to. like replying to their messages as well as i can. sometimes i don't even have the energy to reciprocate in a message, though. in real life, i'm even worse at reciprocating. what else can i do to make people happy? i give as much respect to people as i possibly can. i try to accept respect their views of things, but at the same time, i can't lie to myself. if i disagree, i have to openly disagree, and that might be hurting their feelings.

i want to be able to influence people's attitudes, make them understand some things that they don't. however, in order to do that, i have to adapt myself to their ways to a certain extent. however, i'm afraid that by doing that, i will lose some of my own original thinking, something that some people praise and respect in me. so it's a paradox.

i feel like there's a wall between me and other people. and with every rejection, i become more and more scared of another one.


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MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 7:15 pm

Amber-Miasma wrote:
I hear you, the oil spill is a horrible thing and I don't know whether they'll be able to plug it up before it destroys great chunks of marine life, but that's corporations for you. I do know that whatever mankind, in its infinite disregard for the natural world, throws at this planet, at our mother nature, that she'll always bounce back. I strongly believe that this planet will be thriving long, long after mankind is dead and gone - I mean, she's been hit by meteors, iceages and god only knows what else. I don't think a little stupidity and greed is going to finish her off.

Your social concern is a little harder for me to work my way around, it's never happened to me so I can't really give my thoughts from an experiential point of view. I have been in her shoes before though I'm ashamed to admit, I cut contact from quite a few people I considered friends because I felt the chapter of my life they had been involved in was over, geographically and philosophically. I do regret that decision. She may eventually too.

People build realities on top of realities, the little worlds you mentioned are for these people their entire life. They're just as valid as your reality, or anyone's reality. It's not ignorance - they simply don't view other paths with much value, or dare I say, understanding. Maybe if they really understood the paths that lie right in front of their faces they'd think differently instead of swallowing the reality society offers them. However this is a bystanders point of view, I'm no mind reader but from where I am this explanation seems adequate.

Chew through that or don't, I just hope it made sense, better if it helps, I've often been accused of not making much sense or rambling on.
i see. so maybe she's had that reason to cut contact with me. but i've felt that she had absolutely nothing against me. i need to find a reason why she wasn't worth my time, and the only things i see in her are the good things. that's why it keeps bothering me. i see only the good in her. there's no basis upon which i can reject her, in my mind.

and the worst thing is, i feel as though if I cut contact with her, I wouldn't feel so horrible. these sudden rejections really hurt people's feelings. that's why there needs to be a consensus, a resolution.

as for the oil leak, maybe it's the open endedness of the situation, the unpredictability, that's bugging me. i don't know if the planet can withstand so many people. we live in an increasingly toxic environment, something's happening to the climate that could be our fault. and people are causing the destruction, not the animals. they also deserve a chance to live, reproduce, and have a healthy life for their offspring. do they deserve the consequences of what we are doing to the planet, as a human race? no. and among people, the cancer rate is rising, with the most prevailing cause being lung cancer. whenever i go out and walk down the street, i can smell the car exhaust and the shared smoke, and i always think about this.

I can't stop thinking. i can't live a shallow, self absorbed life, just the thought of a life like that makes me want to puke. it's extremely repelling to me.


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hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 7:34 pm

Gotta say, this sounds like avoidant personality disorder.

And btw us depressed people lie to ourselves all the time, by definition. It's called "cognitive dissonance" or something.

I know you hate yourself. I don't hate you at all.



MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 7:42 pm

hrmpk wrote:
Gotta say, this sounds like avoidant personality disorder.

And btw us depressed people lie to ourselves all the time, by definition. It's called "cognitive dissonance" or something.

I know you hate yourself. I don't hate you at all.
i don't avoid social interaction. in fact, i crave it. because that's the only time i feel like i'm making a difference in other people's lives. but then when i have to be on my own again, i can't get past my feelings to do anything for myself. it's difficult. i undergo a withdrawal phase after every social encounter, just like with drugs.


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hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 7:57 pm

MathGirl wrote:
hrmpk wrote:
Gotta say, this sounds like avoidant personality disorder.

And btw us depressed people lie to ourselves all the time, by definition. It's called "cognitive dissonance" or something.

I know you hate yourself. I don't hate you at all.
i don't avoid social interaction. in fact, i crave it. because that's the only time i feel like i'm making a difference in other people's lives. but then when i have to be on my own again, i can't get past my feelings to do anything for myself. it's difficult. i undergo a withdrawal phase after every social encounter, just like with drugs.


Loneliness is what separates avoidant from schizoid, so I still think you have avoidant in the mix. You'll have to get over some of your self-hatred just to seek treatment. I know loneliness very well. I've never had friends. But I don't think I've ever helped anyone by hiding from them.



MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 8:00 pm

hrmpk wrote:
MathGirl wrote:
hrmpk wrote:
Gotta say, this sounds like avoidant personality disorder.

And btw us depressed people lie to ourselves all the time, by definition. It's called "cognitive dissonance" or something.

I know you hate yourself. I don't hate you at all.
i don't avoid social interaction. in fact, i crave it. because that's the only time i feel like i'm making a difference in other people's lives. but then when i have to be on my own again, i can't get past my feelings to do anything for myself. it's difficult. i undergo a withdrawal phase after every social encounter, just like with drugs.
Loneliness is what separates avoidant from schizoid, so I still think you have avoidant in the mix. You'll have to get over some of your self-hatred just to seek treatment. I know loneliness very well. I've never had friends. But I don't think I've ever helped anyone by hiding from them.
how can i hate myself if i don't even have an adequate concept of self?
i just have these emotions inside of me, and i can't control them. i keep perseverating, and it's keeping me from the things i have to do. i can't concentrate. my mind just keeps going and going about certain things and can't adjust itself to something extraneous.
i've just spent 3 hours perseverating. it does make me feel better in the long run, but it consumes a lot of my time just to get myself going with the things i need to do. i tell people that i'm busy, but the truth is, part of the time is spent on controlling my thoughts/emotions rather than doing actual work.
in terms of my perception of people, this disposition toward people is something i've acquired over the years. i don't think it's a disorder, as it doesn't make my life worse. i would say, on average, i'm the happiest when i'm around a group of people who know me very well and whom i consequently trust. but i either should stick with these people, or should spend all of my time socializing so that my obsessive thoughts are suppressed. but is it possible to always be around people? no. i have schoolwork to do, which is independent work. exams are coming up, and i have to finish up many things, but i can't suppress my constantly flowing, subject focused thoughts.


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Last edited by MathGirl on 30 May 2010, 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 8:11 pm

Quote:
how can i hate myself if i don't even have an adequate concept of self?


For example, many people with borderline personality disorder are depressed and hate themselves.

Gosh psychologists were stupid though...these categories overlap waaay too much.

I'm sorry, I'm really no good at expressing myself with words. Suffice it to say, I care about you.

May I ask you to describe what you mean when you say that you don't "have an adequate concept of self"?



MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 8:20 pm

hrmpk wrote:
Quote:
how can i hate myself if i don't even have an adequate concept of self?


For example, many people with borderline personality disorder are depressed and hate themselves.

Gosh psychologists were stupid though...these categories overlap waaay too much.

I'm sorry, I'm really no good at expressing myself with words. Suffice it to say, I care about you.

May I ask you to describe what you mean when you say that you don't "have an adequate concept of self"?
i always think of myself in third person. i don't know how to describe it, either. i know that i'm feeling something and i keep thinking about stuff, but i don't have an awareness of myself as a whole. it's just my thoughts that i perceive, not myself as a whole.

i'm glad you care about me. but for those who suddenly stop caring about me, i wonder why in particular. people only tend to say good things about me, which is not useful at all. besides, these things are general. for example, people say that i'm organized and insightful, which does not offer me hints as to any specific situations.

an NT told me stuff that describes my asperger traits. but i wonder if there's anything that i could improve on beyond my asperger traits, because the girl i'm talking about has asperger's, too. so there must be something else about me that is repelling, beyond my asperger's.


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hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 8:43 pm

I often see my body as a foreign object that has nothing to do with me. The same for my family, school, country, etc. that most people establish their identity with. I'm not sure what it means, really. In itself, I don't mind it, because I feel more objective.

A lot of the rejection we perceive is probably much less intentional than it seems. In my case, I will probably eventually forget about you, simply because I'm human. I also might become afraid that what I'm saying is going to hurt you, and withdraw. It isn't because of who you are or my opinion of you. We expect criticism so much that we reject honest compliments. From what I see, one of the biggest improvements you could make is simply to accept yourself. In my opinion, the best advice is usually what you least want to hear. I imagine you want scathing criticism of everything you do. You do that to yourself more than enough.



MathGirl
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30 May 2010, 8:49 pm

hrmpk wrote:
In my opinion, the best advice is usually what you least want to hear. I imagine you want scathing criticism of everything you do. You do that to yourself more than enough.
The thing is, I am not sure of the validity of my own criticisms. I think other people can understand me a lot more than I do. They see a side of me that I can only know of through what they tell me about it. I want to be able to come across as more genuine. I don't think I do. People don't know as much as I would like them to about the side of me I can perceive and can control. How I come across on the outside, I cannot perceive and control that a lot, and that's what people see. I don't know how much I come across as I would like to come across. I have no idea what I look like from others' perspective. And everyone's perspective would differ to an extent. I feel like I need a very wide range of people's perspectives so that I can draw useful conclusions.


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30 May 2010, 9:02 pm

MathGirl wrote:
hrmpk wrote:
In my opinion, the best advice is usually what you least want to hear. I imagine you want scathing criticism of everything you do. You do that to yourself more than enough.
The thing is, I am not sure of the validity of my own criticisms. I think other people can understand me a lot more than I do. They see a side of me that I can only know of through what they tell me about it. I want to be able to come across as more genuine. I don't think I do. People don't know as much about me as I would like them to know.


Most people are idiots. I believe you are capable of teaching yourself how to act and mindread to some extent, not because you're superhuman, but because you care.

It is painful, but recording yourself can make huge improvements.



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30 May 2010, 9:16 pm

hrmpk wrote:
MathGirl wrote:
hrmpk wrote:
In my opinion, the best advice is usually what you least want to hear. I imagine you want scathing criticism of everything you do. You do that to yourself more than enough.
The thing is, I am not sure of the validity of my own criticisms. I think other people can understand me a lot more than I do. They see a side of me that I can only know of through what they tell me about it. I want to be able to come across as more genuine. I don't think I do. People don't know as much about me as I would like them to know.
Most people are idiots. I believe you are capable of teaching yourself how to act and mindread to some extent, not because you're superhuman, but because you care.

It is painful, but recording yourself can make huge improvements.
However, it is other people whom I'm influencing. As I said, I cannot live this life for myself only.

I've recorded myself before, and all it really shows is how I come across externally (which is quite autistic, but people do seem to accept my Asperger's traits). I need to figure out what people think of the way I act in relation to them. As I said, I think there's something beyond my Asperger's traits that people don't like about me. And I suspect it has something to do with the way I convey myself strictly based on the decisions I make. If I get more hints as to what it is, I would be able to adjust the way I behave around people.

I wish I could videotape myself interacting with others while not knowing that I'm being taped. Because being aware of it changes everything. I do feel that other people are the better judges of that, though, because I don't really have any reactions when I watch other people interact. I can observe them, but I don't have any judgement of their actions.


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hrmpk
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30 May 2010, 9:56 pm

What makes you think there's a problem beyond AS?

My mother worries about everything all the time, to the extent that it is annoying. Don't forget to worry about worrying xD