Church Goers - I don't get it.

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First off, I'm not trying to attack anyone with this post. This isn't about religion. It's about church goers and the way I think as an Aspie. I'm trying to understand their behaviors. I know some of you can help me.

Now, a little background on my experiences with church. When I was a baby, my mom, who was married to my father at the time, took me to the Catholic church to be baptized and they turned her away. It took a few tries to get me baptized. Elementary was hell for multiple reasons, because apparently I didn't go to the right church in town and that church wasn't even very welcoming. It was filled with judgmental people. In early high school, my mother and I went to a service and the father used my divorced brother as an example during the divorce themed service in front of everyone (Embarassing!). So, I quit going. I didn't need church to believe in God.

In college, I decided to give church another try, because a friend assured me that his Baptist church was very welcoming. The church was weird. I didn't get their rituals (I had to "feel" the spirit moving). So, I politely said I wouldn't go and he stopped hanging out with me. That same year, my roommate started a huge fight with me. In counseling with the residential adviser, she revealed her issue was that I wasn't worshiping God correctly (I kept things very religiously neutral in the dorm room, but I had refused to go to her church which was a lot like the Catholic church). I also had my boyfriend's mother talk him out of dating me, because I wasn't Catholic enough. Add to that all the "Good" Christians, including my grandparents who called me a "Devil Baby" and my father who is downright evil, that have hurt me in some way...Needless to say, I feel like I've been shunned by the church all my life and I feel like so many Christians are hypocrites (just honestly saying how I feel). I thought Christians were supposed to come from a place of love, but I don't see that. I see judgement. "You don't go to Church? Oh, tsk-tsk."

Then, on top of all that, I see all the historical discrepancies of the religion and think about how human beings were the ones that wrote the bible...governing bodies made their own changes and left out scripture to suit their ways, often denying women their human rights...How can anyone be certain this is what human beings are supposed to believe? Yet, I don't see church goers being open to the fact that it might not all be correct.

People are always trying to pressure me into going to their church. Especially now that I'm in the South. But I'm skeptical. They push so hard, it almost makes me think they're trying to meet a quota. I'm spiritual. I believe in God, but I don't have a designated religion.

Do any of you understand where I'm coming from?

Absolutely, and here is the bottom line about all of that:

"Clean and undefiled religion before the Elohim and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world."
(James 1:27)

Rather than actually meeting people at their actual points of need, most Christians today are just a bunch of snoots.

Yes. NTs often sacrifice thier beliefs and good sense for solidarity. You're not one of them.

WOW that was so wrong for the priest to embarrass you like that. Our priests never talk about people like that in his homilies. The church that my parents and I go to we have gone since 1988. Nothing bad or unloving about it. I never encountered people shunning other people. I did go to another Catholic church near my house few times but it didn't feel that loving and the priests weren't that great, but that is just my opinion. This Catholic church you went to sounds like an unloving church. No one should judge someone else at church. We are all different. I know that some Christian religions don't really like lesbians and gays in their church but they aren't doing anyone harm. Episcopalian churches are more welcoming to lesbians and gays. I don't know the answer to that. My uncle on my mom's side is a Methodist minister.

I think you will find there are numerous churches for free thinkers such as yourself.
The Unitarians come to mind. There concept of God is left up to the individual. It's not like the so called "organized" religions that state you must believe A., B., C., etc to be one of us. I personally am a Spiritualist which has alot of the same beliefs as Unitarianism.

There are churches full of people who are not like that. I had a lot of problems with exclusion and alienation from the Roman Catholic Church. It was very frustrating because I knew the theology and the dogma and I knew they weren't performing according to the Vatican's dictate. I ended up converting to Episcopal and have found a proper Christian home.

I made a lot of Catholic acquaintances angry by converting because I said things like, "I found God in the Episcopal Church." and "God led my family to the Episcopal Church." because simply cannot believe that any bread and wine could be consecrated and transubstantiated in any hands that weren't Roman Catholic (or Orthodox Greek and the precious few the RCC cooperates with). They got outright nasty. I stopped communicating with them. One person still messages me randomly through Livejournal to apologize and talk. It's been YEARS. I never talk back so I don't know why he keeps doing it... but whatever.

It's really important to remember that Scripture guarantees that you are always acceptable for God, even if you're not acceptable for people. No amount of snobbishness can change that.

Cardinal Ratzinger (now known as Pope Benedict XVI) stated in an interview, now a published book "Salt Of The Earth", that there as many paths to God as there are people. He said this in a context of whether or not pagans (non-christians/non-jews/non-muslims in that context) can find salvation with Jesus. It's about finding your own path. And, honestly, your path may not even be Christian. That's for you to discover. Just know that there are good church people out there who get it and no matter what, your faith is nobody's business but yours with God.

I understand exactly how you feel. I've had bad experiences with churches, Christians, you name it.

Most Christians are hypocrites. (Far too often, I find myself in that category... )* Amusingly enough, the Bible actually says we are all sinners; none of us is better than anyone else. But that's one of those things most people prefer to ignore... The difference between what most churches say the Bible says and what it really says would be amusing, if it weren't so tragic.

Even the church I go to now - which I actually look forward to attending, overall - has aspects I struggle with. The difference is that the pastors of this church admit they're human. They use themselves as examples of the ways we can all go wrong. I respect that enough to struggle through the things I find difficult. I walked in there the first time because someone more or less challenged me to try it out, and I heard things there that shifted my whole view of the world, and of who God is. I kept hearing things that made sense but shook up my view of the world, so I kept going back. But I'm not suggesting you "should" go - even if you happened to live in the area - because I don't know if it would work for you. In fact, as much as I'm glad in hindsight that I did start going, it wouldn't have worked out for me if I hadn't been in just the right frame of mind.

So even now that I'm a "regular churchgoer", at least half of me is shocked to find myself in that position. And I certainly can't say it makes me any better than someone who isn't - it is just something I've chosen to do, because I've found this particular place that works for me. If you haven't found one that works for you, why should you go? And, in my admittedly biased opinion, if the priest or pastor or minister or whatever they choose to be called can't bring themselves to point at themselves when they want an example of people screwing up, they probably aren't worth paying attention to.

*Amusing story: At the church where I go now, the pastor once gave a message on how we were all just like the Pharisees - and I was so outraged my instinct was to jump up and say, "Hey, I'm a lot of things, but I'm not as bad as the Pharisees!" Fortunately, it took me just long enough the irony had time to hit, so I didn't actually do it...

Last edited by theWanderer on 21 Apr 2011, 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I gave up on churches a long time ago. I got sick of getting my feelings hurt, or being accepted at first and then ostracized later. IMO, church is just another place for NTs to play their weird games of acceptance and rejection. I got sexually harassed at one church, and when I mentioned it, I was roundly disbelieved, accused of making trouble, and ostracized. I never "felt the spirit," and I found the people and practices of the Catholic church to be cold and uncaring. Once, when I was suicidal, I called the church and asked to speak to a priest. I told him of my troubles, and his response was to assure me that suicide was a sin and that I would surely burn in hell if I killed myself.
I follow a spiritual path now, and do not allow myself to be seduced into any more religions. I am genuinely happy for those who find happiness in organized religion and church ritual. But just leave me out of it, please.

Not all people of the Catholic church are cold and uncaring. I'm Catholic, but I am an uncaring person. There are bad people and good people in every religious faith. There are good priests and bad priests, just like bad ministers and good ministers. We have two priests at our church and they are both different, but both are very caring. I would call them or email them and I get response. I did mention suicide before and neither priest said to me that I will burn in hell. Perhaps this priest you talked to isn't so caring compared to my priests. We have had priests in the past at this church that weren't that caring. But the two current priests we have now are very caring. The only thing about the church is that the homilies can sometimes be too hard for me to understand. I have gone to other churches (Protestant, Methodist)

I'd be really offended by how wrong that is. That's not the Catholic belief on suicide. (1) we don't know for sure what sends people to hell, if anything at all. All judgment is for the Lord, not people, who knows what happens when there is a final judgment. (2) suicidal people are not in their right mind and people not in their right mind are not held accountable for mortal sins.

That being said, I'd call a suicide/crisis hotline before I'd call my rector. I'd ask my rector later for prayers but would not expect her to counsel me through a crisis. I'm sorry your former priest let you down and I'm glad you got away from those people.

I personally believe that Religion is too powerful and has too much power over people'es lives...

If you enjoy reading the bible and believe in god and all the usual stuff WITHOUT going to Church, I'd say you have just as much respect as Church Goers...

What I get annoyed at the most is some Religious people abusing the power...my RE Teacher was a total b****....she basically sweet talked my mum and the school to get me to play at her wedding (I was supposed to go to camp), but when I returned a Steel Pan late (I play in a Steel Orchestra and this was ONLY a day), she threatened me stating that I should "Get the pan and deliver it"....ON MY f*****g EXAM DAY! I told her straight (politely though) and I get that? Hmmm....practise what you preach...she used me for her own gain and tells me what to do when she doesn't get it....so yeah...I ignored her when I went back to the school to talk to a few teachers (some I like...some I don't) as she KNEW I wanted to go Camping...and she should have been more understanding about giving the Pan back (it was a freaking day late....).

So yeah...I believe some people abuse the power of religion...I respect it...but I also fear it because of what it can do...I want to do what's right and avoid the wrong because I "WANT" to...not because some stories say about what happens if you don't....

In the end, religion causes harm as well as good for the people who devote to it to such an extent that they have to force views on others and break a few rules in the Bible themselves....so it's mostly the people inside religion that make it look bad...the rest of it is fine without anyone involved to preach.

I was raised Roman Catholic but turned away from it for a variety of reasons. I have no faith in organized religion because I see little true faith in any of them.

May I suggest looking into a Quaker Fellowship? They are not a religion in and of themselves but rather, embrace the concepts put forth in the US Constitiution quite literally. The Quakers, who escaped religious persecution in Europe, founded their meeting halls here. The 'sunday mass' is more a collection of people, all welcomed to worship whatever higher power they beleive in in the way they see fit. They are more about true religious tolerance and a more pure expression of ones faith rather than sticking to a rigid dogma or pushing their expectations and creedos on anyone. I'm in the NE so we have many Quaker Fellowships - Pennsylvania was founded by Quakers after all. But there are many nice quiet unobtrusive Quakers across the country.

They may be able to help guide you to something that feels right.

Thanks everyone. My boss asked me to go to his Church on Sunday for Easter. It's a big church, very popular around here. While it appears to be a very forward looking Church. I still don't feel entirely comfortable going. I looked at their web site. They're non-denominational, but still have basic principles I don't believe in. So, I think I'll pass.

Megachurches intimidate me and seem too impersonal. They work for some people, they bring in a lot of money, and they do seem to perform a lot of outreach with that money. My daughter's paternal grandmother attends Willowcreek Community Church in Barrington, Illinois. I can say that on a public website because if you've ever been there or would ever go there, you'd realize I could describe her to the finest detail and even post a picture of her and you'd NEVER locate her there! The place is huuuuuuge! She and her whole family love that place. I'm not comfortable there. Impersonal crowds aren't my thing.

My church has about 200-300 members, counting the snowbirds and people who cannot physically come to church (we have eucharist ministers who visit people with communion). I know a lot of the people and a lot of the people know me. I did call Barb "Liz" for a few weeks until I realized her name was Barb, but that's the crap I do to people. Thankfully, they all like me and just overlook my quirks and shortcomings. Some of them like me for me, including my quirks and shortcomings. It's just a nice environment.

Hearing from people that there are good churches out there full of great people doesn't really help when you've experienced the exact opposite. I can understand not even wanting to give another group of people a chance. The Quakers sound like a really wonderful idea. If I wasn't Episcopal, I'd be Quaker because I really dig their acceptance of people as people.

I used to have nightmares, where I was trapped in the huge cathedral and I couldn't get out. Cold white walls, arched windows with gorgeous stained glass, but no people. I would climb stairs, go up and down hallways and passages, find myself up in the choir box or down in a basement, but I could never get out. These dreams would terrify me.

Wow. They sound like aweful people. Consider yourself smarter and better than they are, because it's true. Shame on that church father for singleing out your family like that for show! That's a very wrong thing to do. I don't see how an excuse could justify that. That other person also wasn't very nice, or your friend. They were selfish. (shows how smart they are already. Well, they aren't.) Then there's your grandparents. Triple ouch. Why do people have to be so hard?

Anyhow, I to have grown up with a religion. General fundamentalism on the Old king James version bible. Sadly, the groups are more an issue than their bible is. I've seen most Christians read passages, and then go to church so some preacher or elder can rationalise it for them. They will make the wierest parts of it look prettier, or sometimes different than what it's really interpreted. For example, the word 'circle' being taught as meaning a ball instead. The leaders of the congregations would literaly tell their audience that "oh yes it does discribe a round planet", when it simply doesn't! Alot of them will then look at other groups, thinking they are more lost and foolish than they are. I find alot of fundamentalist Christians saying that they seriously believe a person will read the bible and believe the whole thing. As far as they care, you're smart if you are with them, and patheticly stupid if you know better.

Last edited by LiendaBalla on 22 Apr 2011, 12:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.