I hate life

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I hate my life so much.
I hate everything, everyone. There is no beauty, no justice, nothing.
Been rejected again after an interview.
Here's what happened (and this is not the first time this happens):
I send my CV, I get a call and they tell me I'm the only candidate they have,
that my skills and experience are exactly what they're looking for,
that the interview is only a formality, you know, HR and all that need some semblance
of protocol. OK. So that's good I told myself.
After the interview I hear nothing for a week (they had told me I should expect a call within 3 days).
Then I get a call. They tell me to wait another week for an official answer.
That they called 10 other candidates for more interviews.
That's how bad I came across.
I have all the skills required in spades.
I can do the work with a blindfold.
And I know that. But I made such a bad impression with HR that they ran away like I was the f*****g plague.
I'm always rejected. The only time I was hired was this time they
told me they were so desperate for someone that they had no choice but to hire me.
Great. f**k it.
f**k it all.
God I hate people so much.
And I don't want to hate them, it does not feel good.
But being rejected all the time, so many times, too many to count, I can't not hate.
f**k everyone who finds happiness in this world, I hope they f*****g die.

I know the feeling, I had a really excellent interview at a videogame store and never got a call back.

I understand completely.

Have you ever tried going to one of those HR firms and asking why did they want nothing to do with you? Or do you pretty much know already?

I'm sorry I can't offer any more positive advice than this.

I don't understand. I was social, polite, nice and knowledgeable.
They seemed to like me, I think, but I'm probably wrong.
I did ask the people who hired me out of desperation why they didn't like me.
They told me they found me weird, not quite right, aloof, I dunno, I did not connect with them
enough, I was not to their liking. Nothing exact, just ambiguous.
They plain did not like my vibe. I dunno. *sigh*
I read so many books on body language and apply some of the techniques.
But nothing. I NEVER get the call back. In nothing I ever tried.
Except that desperate one.
Been reading alot of stuff in these parts of the forums,
and it seems a lot of you guys are feeling the exact same way as me.
Suicidal, feeling like a mistake, like some kind of freak monster people run away from.
I want to blow my brains out, and for people to not read my eulogy, just see it and look at the
picture in the paper, and then turn the page, and take another sip of their coffee,
and plain forget about me. Just like that. Quick. Pouf. And I'm nothing.
I would burn everything I own. Destroy everything I drew, wrote, composed, programmed, everything.
I don't want a trace to remain.
I don't want to just kill myself. I want to never have existed.
If I go on like this I just know I'll end up homeless, a bum, in the streets.
And it gets damn cold in Montreal in the winter.

That's the thing about us Aspies, we disturb and disgust people in ways that even they themselves can't put their finger on. It's considered unfair to discriminate based on race, religion, gender, or sexuality (since that discrimination IS unfair) but is considered perfectly fair to discriminate based on mannerisms, voice inflection, facial expression, hand position, etc. to a level of scrutiny that exceeds what we can control. They don't need to give a reason but the reasons are obvious to us thru deduction.
We Aspies have to be twice as good and fight twice as hard to earn anything that NTs get because we're perpetually fighting uphill against mistrust, prejudice, and rejection.

YES! Exactly. Being part of an invisible minority sucks. We look normal, we have no obvious physical traits that set us apart from the rest. But man, I think you nailed the feeling they get, I could never quite understand, but disturb/disgust is it. And the worst part is we do nothing to warrant such feelings. I'm honestly a nice guy! And I don't have an ugly physical appearance, I don't smell bad, I do great work. But they still look at me like I'm a pile of s**t. I remember the micro-expressions of raised upper lip and wrinkled nose, I see it in my mind's eye right now, I see it all the time. Also that half contemptuous smile. ALL THE TIME.

This is a compelling topic, heartbreaking, but more compelling than heartbreaking.

I'm wondering what your field is Cornelius. CV; huh? That's a more complex thing than a resume.

The other repliers seem to understand your experience, but frankly, I'm pretty sure I don't - exactly. It's always seemed to me that in careers wherein lots of education or deeeep knowledge are required (such as scientific research or some kinds of hard technical fields - stuff where there's a CV) the practioners are allowed to be quirky. I mean; if the guys who broke the genetic code happen to be wierd guys, who cares about that detail? They can break genetic codes.

You say you do great work, I'll take you at your word, because you don't shrink from self deprication where you think it applies.

Too bad, that; so much gut reaction, so little analysis of what goes into gut reaction.

If I were the one who rejected you due to your personal presentation, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to describe exactly, in concrete terms, what I found off-putting and why that/those particular off-putting detail(s) are important enough to the job/position to be deal breakers. As a hiring agent, I'm not sure I'd share that with the applicant. Most people don't want to hear criticism and maddening strangers can be dangerous.



Now, that's interesting. That's smart. But, I think reading is probably a weak vehicle for this type of learning. If I wanted to learn how to sight read music, for instance, given my lack of musical talent, I'd want a teacher, a patient human music teacher.

I am ever fascinated by body language, facial expression, gait and all physical movement. I'm always seeing it, analysing it, enjoying it. I'm a student of it. But, for all my study of it, I do not know my own body language. But there is a profession that teaches body language technique; acting coaches.

This is farfetched, I know, but, an acting coach for AS individuals who just want to score better in job interviews? Not to change you globally, that would be too consuming to survive; but narrowly tailored for specific important, infrequent purposes.

It's a cliche. Most scientists & engineers, even brilliant ones, are quite normal people. Few of the professors, grad students, and others I saw as a student at a high-falutin' university's physics department fit the stereotypes of eccentric geniuses. (And those that were a little eccentric were not the smartest ones.)

Few of them weren't beer-swilling louts, either, but being a little nerdy and cerebral is not the same as ASD. And they had normal social expectations, IME.

That's why I said; The other repliers seem to understand your experience, but frankly, I'm pretty sure I don't - exactly.

The adult Aspie men I know, well, they're a mixed bag; but they function in careers and I'd guess that few if any of their co-workers know that they're ASD. They're all smart and seem normal except for some odd communication deficits.

The only one I suspect performs substandardly at his job is a HS teacher who is tenured. He doesn't answer questions...er...he answers, but never the question asked. Ask a who, what, where, when, how question and he'll reply; "Yeah, that's how they did it." Or some other non-sequeter, that reinforces what he just said. He never elaborates in the area asked. That's disfunctional for a teacher. He has a master's degree in history from a prestigous college and I'm sure he knows the subject matter forward & backward, but he doesn't seem to be able to attend aurally to others and I think that's because of his particular permutation of ASD.

The others are reportedly either good or brilliant at their jobs which is believable, knowing them. But they're not teachers or professors.

That seems like a pretty cold reaction. Probably you feel I'm arrogant and unsympathetic in the way I present myself.
In fact your post in general is unfriendly and moralizing in tone.
To wit:



I detect notes of condescension and/or patronizing in your tone, I can even see your incredulous face as you're writing it.
A CV is not fancier, it's just a latin term that means the same thing as a resumé.
Curriculum Vitae. But I do include a list of my publications, maybe you consider that fancy.
I am french, and we use the term CV and not resumé, which oddly enough is a french word.
But I digress:
my field is computer and software engineering. I have a PhD in what is essentially artificial intelligence.
Where I can work, the places that need the most cutting edge AI are videogames and defense/military.
When I say I do great work I am not boasting, it is a matter of fact.
I never said I was a genius or brilliant or anything, I make things (software) that works great, that
does it job/function to a tee, and is efficient. As measured by standard performance metrics.
I don't just talk s**t about stuff I do, I do it and let it talk for itself.
BUT if I am not allowed to do it, then I have a really hard time selling myself, as you have just seen and proven.
You don't quite believe me, you're not sure if I'm just bullshitting and/or being arrogant/boastful.
I am autistic, I do not play the social pecking order game, I do NOT care to play it.
I don't tell lies to get ahead, I don't bring down others to lift myself up, I don't do any of that stuff.
I am very matter of fact when I speak of myself, and I am always open to new information
about how I am. I strive to get as clear and realistic picture of who I am as is possible.
And I strive to communicate that realistic picture as good as I can, with no fluff, just direct measurable facts.
If I say I have been tested at 169 on the IQ scale, that means just that. I wrote a test and got that result. Period.
Not as impressive as you might think though, the test is just strongly biased towards my strengths, i.e.
pattern recognition, brute computation and algorithmic thinking. My EQ (emotional quotient) is probably real low, and I am
somewhat clumsy. So it balances out. I always got As in science and math, and Cs-Bs in the social sciences, the humanities,
I could not understand what the hell the teachers wanted from me in those classes, it was not clear to me what I had to do.
But it's really hard to communicate those things, the good things (people seem more inclined to believe you when
you self-deprecate, i.e. when you tell them what you think you're weak at) without being perceived as arrogant.

I just want to work and make a living, that's all. If I can find a job that can absorb me for 8 hours a day
and gives me enough money to pay rent and buy food, that's perfect. I do not want anything more
out of life. (Maybe a girlfriend, but that's a whole other thread.)

So going back to you getting a bad vibe from me (even just in writing I somehow
triggered your unsympathetic detector), and you being NT, I wonder what did it?
The perceived arrogance probably?



Not being autistic pretty much precludes you from fully understanding (on an emotional level.)
But you can still get it on an intellectual level.



Exactly, that's a stereotype, eccentricity does not correlate with smartness.
Feynman was charming and gregarious and yet one of the most brilliant scientists ever,
Newton was brilliant as well and he was a total weirdo. I'm sure [you know/have met] charming dumb people
and weird dumb people. Not going to name any names, that's not the point, the point is
charisma or lack thereof does not correlate with smarts and skill.



I am not that impaired, I try to answer direct questions to the best of my ability, succinctly and as directly as possible.



You make a good point. Adding that information to all available evidence I now strongly believe that they just skimmed around the question, not really answering so as to not risk me getting a strong emotional reaction (whatever the emotion). It would seem to be a good strategy for them. And since at that point they were impressed with my work (direct quote from my lead), they could not afford to have me quit on them. They kept me for that whole project, even though the one in charge of the project wanted to fire me. He really did not like me (hate), but my direct supervisor told him how much they needed me. So his hands were tied.
But as soon as the project was finished and the software shipped they sort of fired me (more like an amiable offer to leave, same difference.) According to them I was too emotional. Maybe they have a point. Another thing that's hard to control is meltdowns, i.e. states of strong emotional arousal (could be anger, anxiety/fear, etc.) I have learned to control them better over the years, but they still get a hold of me pretty bad at times. So the best thing I could do is step out until I calm down, and that can sometimes take an hour or two. I tried explaining it to them, but they thought and firmly believe I was making excuses for loafing around. And they told me they could not have a double standard, if I got to take such breaks (yeah, I was just getting cake and coffee and not having panic attacks and/or anger explosions) then everyone would ask for them, bla bla bla. Yeah I understand their point of view, no need to explain. But still I have no idea what to do about that. I mean a pregnant woman would get a double standard, a chronically sick individual would as well. But not me. I look too normal. I must me a weirdo, a lazy ass spaz. So I had to stop going somewhere else to cool off, as a consequence I got into some pretty pointed arguments with some other team members. You have no idea how hard it is to control those surges of emotion [meltdowns].
And that was not only with others at my "level." I would not care if it was a boss, the company VP, anyone.
Which brings me to another thing: I treated everyone as equal, I did not observe arbitrary status, if someone had a bad idea and I knew why it was bad, I told them to their face, even if that guy was higher than me in the hierarchy, even in front of all the others. They probably hated me for that as well. Making them "lose face" in front of "subordinates." I use quotation marks because I do NOT understand and nor do I admit that those concepts have anything to do with shipping a great product. As a matter of fact they don't. They're just useful in the internal politics game, all the ladder climbing BS. 99% of the time those political tactics go AGAINST productivity and are only used to further one's greedy objectives in the social pecking order social hierarchy game. It has nothing whatsoever to do with production. *breath*

Hell I even told the company president to piss off when he was doing his yearly rounds of newyears handshakes. I was quite diplomatic, I think. He asked me if he was bothering me, I looked up at him from my work, probably my face was saying "who the hell are you?" and told him, a bit curtly I presume, in hindsight, "yes, you are bothering me, I would like to get back to work, you have broken my flow." After lunch that day, the guy next to me told me that that was the president, and I just shrugged who cares. Could have been the janitor, he broke my flow. Period.



I am somewhat aware of my own body language, but in a very crude way. I cannot apply advanced techniques.
Problem is I can't for the life of my figure out how to make someone else feel something on purpose.
Purpose being the key word, as I'm sure people feel things interacting with me, I just can't control it.
A good actor can, matter of fact it's their job. You're really onto something here.
I'm seeing a therapist (CBT) and he is helping me with all of that, but it would not be a bad idea to seek out an
acting coach. I have also read many many acting books ontop of body language and facial expression books, but
you are correct in stating that reading about something and doing something are leagues apart.
You cannot fully understand something until you have done it and figured it out for yourself, until
you have built an internal representation that is consistent with your internal structure, that is BUILT on
that internal structure. And just reading is not enough to achieve that.
I suppose that's reason for hope!
Yeah, I could probably never play a role 24/7, but all an actor has to do is get through the scene,
get through the play. It's one performance at a time. I could do that.
It sucks I have to do that to get to a place where I wont need to do that but *sigh* ... so it goes.

I realize there's a somewhat aggressive rant tone to what I'm writing right now, please do not take it personally. I do not mean to offend.

The tone and everything is fine, but your response towards your company president--I don't get why that was necessary at all.

He broke your flow, yes its hard to get back into pattern (for me sometimes impossible), but there could've been a million nicer ways to phrase what you did.

You're not explicit as to whether you were one of the people who he was shaking hands with or not, but if he was (and even if he wasn't) that wasn't what i'd call diplomatic. Unless there was more to the situation than is written here.

He was going around the company shaking hands with everyone, as was explained to me later. He does that every year, shakes hand with and wishes a happy new year to everyone. I had no idea who he was and what he was doing at the time he tapped me on the shoulder and said: "Hello, am I bothering you, you look hard at work." and I responded "yes, you are bothering me, I would like to get back to my work, you have broken my flow." Matter of fact. He asked me a question and I answered, direct. Why does it matter so much if I tell the truth at that point in time. And also why would it had been different to say the same thing to the janitor or another coworker, or to think of it, any other person working in that building who had access to my desk? Is it just OK if they're not the president or the vp or a manager? Yeah, you're right in that in wasn't diplomatic, it was blunt, but it was non-aggressive and direct and truthful. Isn't there something to be said about that?

There is. Anyway I have a problem with getting a job right now as well, so I relate to your struggle.

Cornelius, I'm not offended. Please forgive me for writing a post which sounds patronizing. I found your original post compelling and honest and not at all arrogent. Clearly, I am unable to write in the tone I intend. I'll keep trying.

What I found heartbreaking about your post is hearing someone with some chops trying so very hard and apearantly failing to simply get the work/projects he is quite good at and possibly for irrelavant reasons.

What I found compelling about your post is witnessing your honest self assessment in the area of your professional life which is painful. This sort of introspection is so rarely undertaken. Few have the courage to delve into self responcibility to the extent I am reading from you.

Yes, that is exactly how I read you from your original post.



Your reference to fear of becoming homeless in Montreal did not escape me. I have had fears about a potential heatless winter in CT. Montreal, yikes.



Uh, you were just wrong about that. I got no bad vibe, I didn't detect arrogance. But, please you don't need my sympathy. Your own honest introspection trumps sympathy (if you mean sympathy = me feeling sorry for you). If you are using the word sympathy as used in literature; a sympathetic character, meaning a character one can like or identify with; then yes, I find you sympathetic.

As to the job interview you originally posted about, the one where they were going to hire you on the strength of your CV, but it got scuttled by the interview, you seem to feel it's a weak area for you; personal presentation. You said at that interview you were nice, polite, sociable & knowledeable. But you suppose they were reacting negatively to you over something they perceved which you aren't sure what it is. Frustrating.

I wish I could interview you to see if you do something off putting. I'm sure if I detected something, I could describe it to you in concrete terms. Your profession puts you in a technical role; no? Having been in a technical role in another industry, I know that you don't need the social charm the public relations executive must exibit.

There's more, but I mustn't stay up late tonight, I've an early work day tomorrow

Don't use me as a baseline, I am autistic, so I have an impairment when it comes to detecting tone. I try, but it's hard, and that's with live conversation, so on paper it's even worse.



It is exactly that. I cannot find a place in society because of my social handicap, yet there are places where I could fit very well. It's extremely frustrating.

I'm glad you can see my point of view clear. And that I at least have some measure of success trying to convey the information I want to convey (my skills and weaknesses). And that you see the amount of hard work I do to understand myself and my relations with others.



I meant if you found me sympathetic or not, you're right about not needing pity. I always worry people hate me. For no good reason, but still. I was often beaten up in grade school just trying to make friends, just approaching groups of kids and trying to be friendly, it really stayed with me. I became very avoidant (probably to the point of personality disorder) as a consequence. And somewhat paranoid, I don't trust people and I don't trust my assessment of their motives, I always think there's something under the surface, that they will try and hurt me.
But maybe in person, in the context of a job interview (where I would be extremely nervous) you would get some other impression.



I thought all those things, that it went OK. But I am very bad at reading between the lines, and they are not going to be direct and upfront about negative feelings, they're going to play their cards close to the vest for reasons you explained above. So who knows what went on in their heads. Not me.



I would love such an opportunity, a no stakes training interview where you could and would disclose all the information people in a real interview would not. God that would help. So much. Real meat and bones experience is key, books can only bring me so far.



Yeah. At times it goes all the way down to -40 below. Don't even need to specify fahrenheit or celsius, the two scales meet at that point.



That's a whole other thread I suppose!
It's doing me some good to see that so many others also struggle like I do, makes me feel less alone.