I lost my pastor

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I lost my pastor at the end of last June. He didn't die, but he let my church and moved several states away to be pastor at another church. He was a father figure to me. More of a father figure to me than my biological father ever was, and I loved him. He was kind and funny and gave such wonderful big bear hugs. He did all the things that a father is supposed to do. He supported me in times when I was worried about things, he celebrated with me when I had good news, he comforted me when I was upset, and he gave me gentle guidance and advice (even though sometimes it wasn't the advice I wanted to hear). I miss him so much.

In September, we got a new interim minister (only going to be there for a couple of years before we get our new settled minister). She has made all kinds of changes to the service, and has done so in a way that it has been constant change ever since she arrived. I have Asperger's Syndrome, so you can imagine that that kind of thing is very hard for me, and I have been under a lot of stress because of it. I have developed sleep problems and have started having to take herbal remedies (the Bach flower remedies) and getting more exercise to help me deal with the stress, and there are times that I'm still on edge. but that's not the only thing that bothers me about her. She also runs roughshod over everyone and if she wants something to be a certain way it's going to be that way. If someone does speak out against her, or if someone voices a view that she thinks is "wrong" she will defend herself or put down the other person's view from the pulpit. One time she even (probably accidentally since I haven't told her about my AS...my pastor knew, and the rest of the congregation, so unless he wrote it down somewhere and she saw it that way, she doesn't know) made a comment that was discriminatory of people on the Autism Spectrum. she was sermonizing about the Deadly sin of Sloth and bean talking about people she called 'uber sloths'. She defined these people as people who resist change and support the status quo. Uh...hello? That is exactly what someone on the Autism Spectrum does, and it's hard wired into them so they can't help or change it. So she basically said that all people on the Autism Spectrum were sinners! Coming from a minister of a church where everyone is supposedly accepted, and a minister who is a lesbian, this was doubly offensive. She makes snarky comments if she sees someone doing something that she doesn't approve of. Her prayers are long and showy and she often pauses during her sermons for dramatic effect. Not only that, but she takes every opportunity to be the center of attention. Thursday night was my church's Maundy Thursday service and what happens at the end is the sanctuary is completely dark and the acolyte (person who lights the candles for services) comes down the aisle and lights a single candle (I've done it the past two years and I did it again last night). It is usually this grand and powerful climax of the end of the service, supposed to signify the hope of Easter. Last night the interim minister did things that my pastor never did after the sanctuary was completely dark but before I came down the aisle which made my walk down the aisle more of an afterthought than a climax. When we got home I was FURIOUS! She had stolen the moment for herself when it rightfully belonged to me (Mom said that the moment was supposed to belong to the light, but I personally don't see how moments can belong to inanimate objects. In my head, moments always belong to people so the moment belonged to the acolyte and therefore, in this case, to me). Mom had often said that she was doing what she did for herself, but Thursday night I saw it for the first time.

Friday morning I was an absolute emotional wreck. I was still furious about what the interim minister did last night, and I missed my pastor more than ever. I just wanted the interim minister to just go away, and I thought we would be so much better off without her. I cried off and on for almost two hours, and again around noon that same day. I didn't feel right all day (but I was still able to function for the most part) and by the late afternoon I was exhausted. At some point during the day, and I have no idea where this came from but I am very glad it did, I did a Google search for autism and grief and found kfisherx's thread on here where she shared a link to a page that provided information about autism and grief. I read the information and had a complete epiphany. I had been feeling like I was regressing in terms of the skills I have learned to help me cope with my Asperger's, as well as having to deal with the stress from (what I assumed) all the constant changes that the interim minister was making. Turns out, most of the stress I was feeling was probably more related to grieving over the loss of my pastor than it was over all of the changes that were happening...but the changes that were happening definitely did contribute to the problem. So I was basically dealing with a double whammy here.

Before I knew about the role grief had played in everything, I did try to talk to a friend of mine at church about how I didn't like what the interim minister was doing (and also to explain about the discrimination I had seen). He, unfortunately, had been one of the people who was on the committee who chose her so when he wrote back he was polite and thoughtful, but he did defend her. I've been having off and on 'Grrrr!' moments at him because of this. Now that I understand how big of a role grief is playing (at least in my stress level) I'm toying with the idea of giving him an update. I still don't like the woman and consider her to be a pompous, arrogant, annoying hypocritical jackass, but at least I don't blame her completely for the major spike in my stress level like I used to. I also plan to tell her about my AS and about the specific challenges that come along with it so that she will know about it and hopefully that will avoid any more discriminatory comments in the sermon. I'm going to involve my psychologist in that discussion because she would be able to explain it much better than I would.

Your post caught my attention. Like you, I have a certain affinity to select men. I am a very shy Aspie but there are certain men, father figure types, with whom I am comfortable and somehow complete. You've written well and I do know of your situation, sans specifics, of course. A few years ago I had a mentor/professor that was to me like your pastor was to you - he was instrumental to me academically and also one whom I trusted. Now, I have a PhD supervisor and others....but they're not him.

estrellaSMC, I know it's hard but you must accept that this new female pastor is not, and never will, up to his standards. You don't have to like her! I've learned that you can get a lot out of an event (in your case, your church service) at the same time as disliking one whom is influential. No one will ever replace your pastor. There's a saying, 'rise above it.' You'll need to do this now. Do not dwell on her! You know what, I don't like her either. But let's move on from there. Remember that your church service is not about the pastor, not really about the congregation so much, but instead about you and about God. If you are under adult age then you might be stuck with attending that same church, due to family obligations, etc. And I understand. If not, you might consider attending another church with a different structure.

Do not dwell on another's lacking because it will, I promise, exhaust you. I've met certain females (no names mentioned here) that are excruciating. I've gone over their 'wrongness' multitudes of times, wondering why they cannot think! You know what, estrellaSMC? It didn't do me any good. In fact, it just tore me up inside. You'll not change her, I promise. Rage can be like 'spinning your wheels'. There are such things as 'emotional vampires' and you've found one. I believe Aspies are especially prone to these emotional vampires, they'll prey on you if you let them. So don't. If you find yourself thinking about her failings, you must use your conscious mind to deter yourself, even distract yourself, so you do not reinforce the habit. Instead, find another outlet, like a special interest.

Or, maybe you could find a mentor, like at school or in your neighbourhood. Remember that your previous pastor-friend brought out innate qualities in you - qualities and traits that you still have and can accentuate. Do this now. Embellish on those! Polish them. Use them. Asperger's is unique and so are you - hone your own talents.

P.S. As an aside that may be of interest to you, because there are parallels, did you know that Dr. Temple Grandin had a father-figure mentor? She did. In fact, I believe she dedicated a book to him, Mr. Carlisle (sp?). He was her high school science teacher and, with him, she thrived. I bet someday you'll be dedicating your published book, or your PhD thesis, or whatever, to your pastor. And he'll be so proud of what you've accomplished! Remember that you have many many years to reach your goals so be patient with yourself - because he would. You will find your own path.

Just to add (apologies for the double post here!) - You explained it cogently and perfectly well! Instead, let me give you some advice. Go in another direction. Explaining (trust, I've done plenty of this in my life) can be futile. Instead, read my previous post to you. This is a hard step, I know. And one I still grapple with! Like you, I can be formidable. Now, estrellaSMC, direct your strength, your power, in your direction toward who and what you want to be. (Not 'fixing' a broken woman).

A technique. I don't do karate, but a basic premise, as I understand, is to direct the natural flow of the punch instead of deflecting it or stopping it. Right now, this is what you're trying to do and it's like trying to stop a freight train. Stated another way, have you ever been in a car that's braked really way too fast? And your soft drink and books fly across the floorboard? Could you stop that? Well, maybe. You could try to catch it (I've done that) and you might avert the spill, sort-of. Instead, let it fly. Then move on. Keep driving. You have places to go.

Grief is a process and sometimes it can open new channels. You have a lot to fill and a lot to fulfill, if you know what I mean.


Now it's Easter Holiday. Isn't Easter a time of new beginnings, where a new life, or a new form of life, takes shape? This what you must do right now. Or, maybe you've just aged a whole decade or so this weekend.

Last edited by LabPet on 07 Apr 2012, 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

I knew that she would not be as good as my previous pastor in terms of how she ran the services, preached sermons, gave advice...basically performed her ministerial duties...before she came in. I expected it. What I didn't expect was that she would have such a nasty personality and the constant change. I have never been able to control my feelings like you talk about, and it really upsets me when someone mentions it, so please don't. I am an adult, but I tried churches in the area in the past when I first moved here and the church I'm at now is the only one I felt comfortable at. My church isn't overly religious...we even had an atheist worshipping with us for a while! I have never said anything to the interim minister about my feelings about her, so unless my friend blabbed she doesn't know.

I feel like you're lecturing me, and I don't like it. I did not make this post to be lectured. I was looking for understanding and sympathy for what I'm going through.

Honestly, I did not mean to lecture you, really. I guess a lot of what you wrote, or maybe how you wrote it, reminds me somewhat of myself. Because I've done it. I believe you in that...well, she doesn't like you. I guess it's just that I've learned, maybe the hard way, that there are people like that. I do sympathise with you, but, at the same time, you seem an incredibly strong being and you probably don't need sympathy. I guess instead, support - that I know you miss your pastor friend. Or, stated another way, I see this is tearing you up inside. I do feel for you and I know what that kind of hurt is. And why I was re-directing you, in a direct way.

I understand, but I don't see how she could not like me. I don't mean that in an arrogant 'everybody-likes-me' way, because I know there are people who don't like me. I'm just surprised that she would be one of them since, because of my own feelings for her, I have mostly avoided having any interaction with her. So, I'm curious: what in my original post made you think she doesn't like me?

I guess I did not mean for this to be so...confusing. I am sorry for your loss though.

Anyhow, to answer your last question: Look, I don't know and wouldn't want to guess at the specifics - out of my realm. Instead, from what you've written, I think it's safe to say that you and she do not have a good rapport. It is likely your feelings for her are mutual. But, most importantly, and what I was trying to express, letting her get to you will be counterproductive. You've already suffered a loss and with dignity. In my opinion, I wouldn't let her tear you up inside. Instead, concentrate on your own strengths and enjoy the church that matters.

I guess I figured you had seen something I hadn't. Even us Aspies with our missing social cues, I have found, sometimes see or sense things other people don't see or sense...even neurotypicals. One time I had a suspicion that someone was gay. I didn't say anything about my suspicion, but a few months or so later I found out that I had been right. As I have already said, however, I have had extremely little luck with controlling my feelings (I was only able to succeed once and that was after months of preparation before I saw the person I wanted to change my feelings towards again. I don't think that I could do it with someone who I see pretty much every week). Also unfortunately, she seems to have a very strong 'look at me!' sense about her and a loud voice, so she's hard to ignore. but yesterday in church I may have found that I'm not alone. We always do something called 'the Floral Cross' on Easter where we cover this huge wooden cross with flowers. Of course, the interim minister put her own spin on it...which didn't exactly work. In the past we have done it two ways. The first was where we would all go up during the service and put our flowers in the cross. The other was that the putting flowers in the cross would happen before the service started and then the cross would be carried up front, usually by this at least six-foot really strong guy who's a member of the church along with his family. Yesterday we all went up, but we did it in a different way than we had done it with my pastor. With him, it was crowded and slow but there was a certain amount of order to it. Last week, the interim basically turned us loose, saying we could come up 'as the Spirit moved us'. Anyway, at one point there was a bit of a traffic jam. Mom, I, and an older lady who sits in front of us were all waiting at the back of the sanctuary to clear so we could get back to our seats. The older lady turned to us and said 'things sure have changed around here' Mom agreed and I added 'I don't do well with change' and the lady said 'yeah, I don't either.' Then she added 'its not traditional.' Now, I'm almost positive that she's neurotypical, but it still made me feel good to hear her say that. And I don't know if it was that or some of the other things that happened at church that morning or if nothing at all affected it, but for some reason yesterday a lot of my stress was eased.

Psalm 4:4. I've read that Psalm a lot lately, and yeah...

Anyway, I've had somewhat of the same happen. Not a change in church leadership, but either the church changed over time, or I realized what was going on, and eventually left. It was a nondenominational Protestant church, and it was the first church I went to for a longwhile, having been raised fundie Baptist. It was really sad, as I'd invested a lot into that church, and to leave it was very tough.

I guess the biggest thing was the youth pastor really. He really constantly gave me crap personally about my "Aspie" characteristics. It was actually going there I realized the reality of my NVLD diagnosis, and my big differences between me and everyone else, especially among people my age. That youth pastor, though, he literally would preach about how introversion is bad and stuff like that. I tried as hard as I could be to be, well, as this board calls it, NT, and it didn't work. Eventually what it culminated down to, our youth group was called "Connect" and I ended up missing a few weeks of youth group. He asked why, I told him I felt like I didn't connect with the other youth there, and I might be at fault, but it's just the way I am. He then responded back with "I thought the Kingdom of God was about how you can serve others, not about how you can be served." So that was the straw that broke the camel's back in our really tense and ridiculous relationship.

It wasn't just that, the whole church structure was basically super "NT" in structure if that makes any sense. One time the youth pastor like, admonished me for not wanting to go out drinking on my 21st birthday with other people from the youth group, when I told him I'd probably have a drink at home alone. You were basically considered bad if you didn't "hang out" with other people from church regularly. That, and they were really evangelistic, which there's nothing wrong with it at all. All Christians should be evangelical, ie, they should not be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But, my old church imo took it to a weird level, where they advocated basically becoming friends with people for the sake of trying to get them into the church, and forming social networks, to get people into church. This I obviously failed miserably at, and had no idea why. It made me feel like a huge failure, really. Alot, too, was, the church due to it's structure was my main social group. It was the first place I felt like, a sense of belonging in and whatnot, group identity, that fun stuff. So it was hard letting go of it for that reason, too. When I left, I lost almost all my social group.

I ended up going to my local Eastern Orthodox Church. Theologically, it matched up most to what I believed anyway, that and it gave me sorta something to just stick with, whereas at my old church, while actually theologically being close to Orthodox, they were sorta wanting to constantly reinvent the wheel. But besides theologically, it's just a much more spiritually beneficial environment. I think at my old church (and this is something I think your pastor/your church is trying to figure out as well) people confuse their feelings for spirituality. The other thing too, it's just a...quieter? environment? Most of the people are older, I get along better with older people, and honestly most Orthodox converts are pretty nerdy, I'd even suspect AS in some people in my church.

That all said, you know, you are right in questioning your new pastor and her motives. This likely will be a learning experience for you. I guess a big thing I recommend is talking with your pastor, and politely voicing your concerns. She might be blissfully unaware that what she's doing is wrong/offensive to people. Jesus gave kinda specific advice for this:

Again, don't like, be disrespectful to her, but at the same time, yeah... This is gonna be tough for you, though, whatever you decide to do. For me, I figured I couldn't stay where I was, and yeah... But, when it's all said and done, you can't be bitter toward her. Again, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." These things are hard, as being fallible humans we are, it's not just one sided, even in my case, I wasn't perfect in the way I dealt with my youth pastor.

Again though, Church is about worshiping God, though. Just remember that's what church is for. Not for socializing (or fellowship in Christianese,) not for making you feel good, not to solve your problems, but to worship God. It's not about you, it's not about your pastor, it's about God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Good luck and God bless. Sorry for the long wall of text post.