Suicide

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Is a logical, well thought-out decision to commit suicide any more valid than a brash, emotional one? (not in terms of the act, but the reason(s) for carrying it out)

i don't see how suicide could be logical. it would be based on emotional feelings of despair. Even if it were logical, it would be bad logic. You're going to die eventually. You only have one life. why end it?

I think it's a very mature, reasonable decision. A suicidal person decides he can't handle what the world is giving him, and chooses an escape path, rather than suffering in misery. Sadly, the American society treats suicide like a crime; I've even had a doctor threaten to have me put away in a mental institution if I ever mentioned suicide again. I think there should be more social tolerance or even support of suicide. When a person is truly miserable, the worst thing anyone can do is make him suffer (read: live) through it. Since the Soma drug, like the one in Brave New World, hasn't been invented yet, suicide is the only way out of misery some people see.

I am not advocating or promoting suicide. I think anyone considering it should try therapy and/or strong anti-depressants first, before making the final decision. However, if a person does want to go through with it, he should not be stigmatized.

(I used the pronoun "he" in my post because I'm male; in reality, this can apply to men or women.)

Last edited by Aspie1 on 04 Nov 2006, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry, I accidentally double-posted, and couldn't delete this.

I think it's better to try every other option before choosing suicide. You have nothing left to lose, so you can try anything you can think of.

When my father was alive I kept wishing for death, but that was because I didn't think I was capable of running away. I he came back from the dead now, I would just move out to another country.

I was feeling very suicidal a couple of years ago but I knew I couldn´t go through with it because of my family. I wouldn´t say committing suicide is logical but if a person is truly miserable and in a great deal of pain I wouldn´t blame that person if he or she did it. However suicide is truly the LAST resort !

If you're thinking about doing it, don't. This place wouldn't be the same without you. Take a nap, go for a walk or watch TV to get your mind off it. If that doesn't help, I urge you to get help.

My Grandfather killed himself.

No-one knows why, but I think he was scared of growing old and losing his dignity.

And at the time, I thought, yeah.. fair enough. It's your right to make that choice.

And then I saw the effect his death had on my Grandmother over the next couple of years..... He shouldn't have abandoned her like that. It was selfish, and it ruined her life.

Guys, a word of warning, this is a long rant - I needed to get it out there. Take the time to read it entirely if you are so inclined, I would like some comments. Thankyou.

Perhaps indirectly I'm thinking about suicide, or rather, I'm thinking about thinking about it. But the logic is fast becoming clearer to me.

When I consider life, my life and everyone elses, I tend to notice a pattern: For every second we exist we take something from the world around us. The equilibrium achieved by all other flora and fauna on this planet can be thought of as a self-sustaining circle of life. This is where humans are a problem; they drain and destroy the finite resources of this planet, our only home and means of survival, and then spread. Is this a form of indirect, insidious suicide? I saw on the news yesterday that by 2043 it is predicted that all commercial fish will be gone due to overfishing. Rainforests are being cut down faster than they're growing. Where is the logic behind these actions? The innate greediness of human nature overrides what we would call 'common sense', and yet we do not stop even when we recognise it is not in our best long-term interests.

People are truly never satisfied with their own present situation and always want more - better, faster, more efficient, more comfortable and so on. Nobody is content and it is highly destructive. And yet, without hope and desire for greater and better things is life even worth living? I have thought about this alot. I believe in evolution, that we have risen from the 'lesser' animals by nature's will and time's hand. But if evolution is a natural thing, and it is in our nature to cause destruction in serving our own biological needs, then is nature itself suicidal? Is the natural process illogical? We seem to be repaying the planet by destroying it.

We are so used to living in a comfortable lifestyle that we can't even make a few changes in order to help our own planet. People don't recycle, use public transportation, they buy huge, environment polluting cars where smaller ones would do equally as well (quick question: which is worse, the person who creates the car or the person who buys it?) and so on.

Sure, we spend billions a year trying to improve the environment, help others and so on, but think of why we do this: to fix the damage we ourselves have caused in the first place. America spends $4 billion on the Iraq War every week when millions lie starving. But, getting at another point, I ask whose fault is the war? Or any other ideological clash. I personally trace it back to religion - the religious extremists attacked our 'western way of life' because they saw it as immoral and 'incorrect'. But is what they did wrong? They are doing things that they believe is right in the utmost; they are doing it for love of their perfect God and hope to die as matyrs to live in the glory of heaven. If you believed with all your heart that what you were doing is right and true, then is it wrong?

I believe that the Gods that man has envisioned and act as the middle men for are nothing but another tool used for control - and take a look at the history of the Church. Killing and persecuting those who didn't believe and forcing beliefs upon them, opposing the progress of science, spreading the hate of (directly and indirectly), and speaking out against homosexuals, and denouncing such common-sense things as using condoms, when this world is overpopulated enough already. And this is only Catholocism, think about other religions. Many of them persecute and reduce women to a position of lower than man - inequality is rampant. I do admit that alot of the morals they teach are good, but do we really need a God behind them to scare us into obedience? Perhaps so, as I also believe that control is maintained through fear, not love.

Think of religion again. Do you think people love an invisible God more than they fear going to a place to be tortured in excruciating agony for an eternity? I doubt this. And think of law. There are always people leeching off honour systems, and I doubt a society would be able to function if there wasn't the threat of force from police.

Do we even get a choice of what we believe? Can the child really offer any resistence to relgious bombardment from their parents? It is effectively brainwashing when they are at their most feeble. Who doesn't believe their parents? nearly all children will always see what they say as 'right', especially at that age. Think about Santa and the Easter Bunny. I know I believed in that ridiculousness when my parents told me, and in Santa's case this was another form of control - getting kids to behave well, lest they lose out on some presents. People are puppets.

Perhaps eliminating the human race is the answer? The earth would shrug off the ill effects of the human race in a few millenia and the balance would again be restored, us being nothing more than an irritating parasite that outstayed its welcome.

For one without religion or some hope beyond death that living through life can afford us, I ask what is the point of living, especially when continued existence is nothing but selfishness and destruction? I don't like this world or the people in it, so what's the point? I am so tired.

Yeah by you keep on living you are adding to the misery in the world but what if you
do unknown_Process_x that does alot to improve things for the world? Your smarter than
the average guy so do not give me the BS that you have nothing to offer. I have plans to do things to make a difference. So I'm hanging around. Anyway since I started prozac I have not had one thought of suicide.

As an atheist, I'll answer this part of the question. What is the point of living? To have fun. There are things I like doing, and things that I want to do that I haven't done yet. As for the idea of killing yourself because humans are a drain on the ecosystem (which is really what your argument boils down to), removing one human from the equation is the proverbial drop in the bucket. Your presence or absence is not going to make one whit of difference, so removing yourself via suicide would ultimately be a futile and meaningless gesture.

If you don't like the world, do something to try to change it. Every little bit helps. Me, for instance, I don't own a car -- I walk to work, a walk of 1.2 km (3/4 of a mile) each way. At the very least it serves as a positive example. Suicide would have the opposite effect on other people.

And as for not liking the people in it, hey, neither do I.

I don't see it as nature commiting suicide, we're more like a cancer, a part of the system that went wrong and is now killing the rest. About the fish, are you really gonna miss them that much? What was they're own purpose in the first place?



That's true. I have researched the history of religions too and it's all about making the people submissive once the citys became to large to control.



That's why the world needs you, needs us, we aspies give a different point of view on every issue, people like us have changed the world before. I think it's pretty clear that if we ruled the world there would be no wars anymore.



I think nature has no purpose on itself. Our species' purpose is to survive, but since that one is pretty secured by now, we have no better thing to do than enjoy life. Do whatever you like the most. I like to walk alone in a forest with my Ipod singing out loud

As someone who has considered suicide on a number of occasions, i must admit that i recognise your point, or rather your lack of a point.
What is the point of the human race?
We kill ourselves(no pun intended) by draining the planets resources (note: i did not say the planet is ours because, frankly, we don't deserve it) and we kill others species in the process.
However, some of the things that are bad for the enviroment are good for us. The modern society is, if we shut down all the power plants now, many people would suffer and die.
Unfortunately, humans, by nature, are greedy we always want the best for ourselves and the people we love, this is also one of our redeeming qualities.
Humans have the capacity to care, even if they don't do anything about it.
If we hear that there has been another natural disaster (which, thanks to Climate Change we probably caused) even if we think "Not again" we still hope that things work out for those affected.
Even though i do not know you, i worry, for even if you are thinking about suicide in a logical and hypothetical way, i know how tempting and compelling it is to put theory to practise.
Think of this; if there was someone suffering, someone you didn't know, and you could alleviate or end their suffering, would you?
I suppose i'm trying to say that the point of the human race, like probably many other species is our existence. We care that we exist and we try to make our existence better, if not for the rest of the world, then at least for those we care about.
Or to be more precise, we're doing the right thing the wrong way.

I completely agree with you, Xenon, even though I'm Jewish by religion. According to Judaism, we don't know what lies in the afterlife. I'm sure it's pleasant place, but we don't know for sure what it's like. After all, no one ever came back to tell the living people about it. So when people go, they're pretty much heading off into a comfortable unknown (according to Jewish beliefs, at least). This world and this life we're living are what's known. Explore it, enjoy it, and cherish it in the way you know best.

If the last sentence sounded too abstract, here are some tips to help.
Avoid negative people; they're the ones who make life seem bad.
Be nice to others. Their have only one life, just like you. Don't make it worse than it already might be.
Read the Torah (or Old Testament), the New Testament, Koran, Vedas, Book of Mormon, Darwin's Origin of Species, or whatever else inspires you. Just don't try to get others to accept your beliefs.
Don't ever deny yourself an chance to enjoy yourself. Example: if you have a craving for some lobster, go ahead and buy it, since the $12 you spend won't make a difference in the long run.
Take care of yourself. This includes hygene, eating healthy, exercising, and not working too long. Life may be short, but there's no need to make it any shorter.
God may provide you with guidance and inspiration, but only you are responsible for how you live your life.

Very well said, Aspie1!! !

I am not encouraging or discouraging suicide. I think it is ultimately the decision of the individual. But I hear all this crap about "if you committ suicide your selfish". That way of thinking is, in itself, selfish. Basically your telling someone "so what if your life is miserable, stay around to make us people happy". So basically, we're supposed to live for other people?
I mean, it's MY life, **I** am in control of it, **I** feel the sting, **I** have to live with the stigma, and it is MY pain. If at some point i decide to blow my head off, people should just be happy I'm no longer suffering, rather than being selfish and carrying on "what could I have done differently to make him choose life?".
The purpose of life should be to have a good time, have fun. But for some people this isn't possible. A life of misery or worse than no life at all.
Modern religion (particularly Catholicism, and varying denominations of christianity and islam) is ass backwards and instills perilous values into society, by denying things such as self ownership, sexual intimacy/love.... And, theyr half-@$$ed justification to doing this is often rooted in very selfish, rat-raced, and often heirarchical ideologies.
I'm not gonna say when I'll committ suicide, because it's like an up and down emotional roller coaster (only the downs are heavier than the ups), every time I get ready to do it I end up getting dragged back in on some blind hope things will get better than I get let down. Here lately this cycle has been slowing down signifigantly (if you've noticed I haven't been online very much lately).... So, do not be surprised if I committ suicide any time soon. I am considering buying a bag of morphine and cutting my wrists in my sleep.