How to handle dispute with neighbour?

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I live on the second floor of a three floor condo/apartment block, built in the 1970s. Four years ago, the neighbour directly upstairs decided to remove his original carpets and replace them with floorboards.

After removing the carpet and it being bare concrete, I could hear every singe footstep. I was studying at home for my graduate degree final exams at the time and was too stressed to deal with it all. I got my mother, who has limited English ability, to speak on my behalf. She claimed she extracted a deal whereby the owner noted he did not realise that there would be additional noise and that he would be happy to remove the floorboards if there was noise. He later returned after installation and when only my mother was home - got the installer to walk on the floorboard upstairs while he was beside my mother (who also has poor hearing) and then claimed it was "all ok" as there was "no noise".

I later returned home and could trace every footstep that the upstairs neighbour made. That said, it was a welcome relief from the bare concrete.

I got my mother to go back to him and ask him to reintroduce carpet. He refused to do so, noting that he would be happy to reintroduce carpet if he ever "moves out". He agreed to place some rugs around the place to reduce the noise.

The noise continued so I ended up having an extended meltdown after becoming very fustrated by the whole situation. I offered to pay for the cost of carpet. My mother returned to him with the offer and again to ask that the carpet be replaced - he refused on the grounds that his wife had become used to the look of floorboards.

I later complained to the executive committee and building management - I was told that I should not raise it in formal meetings as it would "devalue" the building as new purchasers would be alerted to the problem upon reading meeting minutes (which are public information). I was then told it is an "old building" and was told I need to "get along with others".

The owner later talked to me some months later after he saw me in the garage - they all sense that I have various mental illnesses - and noted that he "wears soft boots" to minimise noise. He noted it is his wife who uses slippers that causes the noise. He mentioned that he tells her to not walk in slippers but sometimes she doesnt listen.

I dont like sitting in the lounge room as it is directly below the floorboards - it drives me crazy when I hear the footsteps. My psychiatrist claims I have sensitive hearing and that I might be being unreasonable.

My view is that it is an old building and he should have installed floorboards in the first place as a result. It angers me when they try to twist the argument and suggest it is an old building and thus suggest I am being unreasonable about noise transmission.

My thinking is just to hire a team of lawyers and sue them all - finally getting a result after all this "being nice" garbage which has led nowhere. That said, I might loose the case which then might validate his position and he might not even bother with the soft boots anymore....my thinking is to approach him directly rather than getting my mother to do it again since I know she is not good at talking......but I really dont want to talk to him.....I know he gets annoyed when I lodge complaints against him without having talked to him first....

What can I do?

I'd talk to a lawyer to find out the legal options. At the very least, the lawyer should be able to write a letter to the neighbor that might convince him to put in carpet.

The problem with owning there is that they can do what they want to to their apartment as long as it's allowed in the contract. If you were renting, then the landlord could handle the dispute. You may very well have very sensitive hearing. There's nothing wrong with that, but if your hearing is more sensitive than most people's, I don't think a court would find in your favor if you took it that far. They would probably go on what an average person could hear. That doesn't mean it doesn't bother you though, nor does it fix the situation.

Also, if they own theirs, then they do have the right to change the flooring as long as they aren't doing something like putting in a dance floor so they can wear tap shoes all the time to hear the cool clickety noises from them. I guess I'm saying that he didn't cross the line into disturbing the peace, even though he did disturb your peace.

I'd suggest two things. The first is a white noise machine or a fan, if you like that sort of thing. It can really drown other sounds out. If that works for you, then the problem is solved, because I don't think there is any way to force him to put carpet back in an apartment that he owns.

The second is to write a letter explaining your condition and your problem with the floor. Let him know that you are not trying to be overly nitpicky, that while it may not bother most people, it does seriously bother you and it is interfering with your ability to live and enjoy your life at home. If you explain that you are not trying to be a pain or whiney, that you would gladly pay for carpets or even a room size area rug, he may reconsider. Maybe get your hearing tested and if it's more sensitive than others, show him the test results and also get your psych to write a letter explaining your need for quiet.

Whatever you do, do not demand that he put the carpet back because if you do that, he never will. I would bring it up at a meeting, I don't care what they say about the value of the building. If it's not loud to anyone but you, it won't be a problem in the resale value, etc. If it is obviously loud enough to be a problem, then pressure from the other occupants may cause him to put the carpet back. If it's loud enough to be a problem to other people, and they don't want it brought up because it would lower the value, they won't like what he's doing very much and he will get the flack from everybody. That might work too.

Good luck, and I'd seriously try the white noise machine first, and try talking to him, being nice to him about it no matter how mad you are, and explaining the situation to him and asking him to please reconsider or see if he can suggest a compromise.

I read about a similar situation that arose in the UK where someone removed the carpet from their flat. A court ended up ordering the neighbor to reinstall carpet.

If I remember that case correctly, there was a requirement in the building for all apartments to have carpets for that very reason.

I just read your post and I might have an idea. Like the other alluded to, you do have every right to be sensitive about your inescapable living situation. I mean, you could move but should not have to. Or swap flats with your neighbours. Another option.......

Instead, could you revamp your ceiling? Maybe your neighbourhood council would pitch in, given the unique situation. Contractors can totally sound proof and insulate your ceiling. Like in sound theatres. I understand insulating styrofoam is an excellent sound barrier! Hope you get some peace & quiet soon so you can study for your exams.

I was looking for this particular story and found another one about someone in London who took their neighbor to court over the removal of the carpet and lost. The lawyer fees were over 140,000 pounds.

Thanks for the replies! I felt a bit more positive about finally getting to a resolution.

Yes, I currently dont even go to the living room because I get upset upon hearing the footsteps. It is a 2 bedroom apartment. I sit in the study room all day. If I am in the living room, I run a white noise generator or turn on the airconditioner. That said, I can still hear the footsteps with the airconditioning on. The white noise generator, when set to maximum volume, muffles the footsteps.

I happen to live in New South Wales, a state in Australia. I ended up starting some Google research again and found a good legal information site - http://www.slideshare.net/teyslawyers/i ... erings-faq

My apartment block has the by-law mentioned in the file. It states that “an owner of a lot must ensure that all floor space within the lot is covered or otherwise treated to an extent sufficient to prevent the transmission from the floor space of noise likely to disturb the peaceful enjoyment of the owner or occupier of another lot.” The by-law does not apply to floor space comprising a kitchen, laundry, lavatory or bathroom.

There are also some cases mentioned:
- http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/ ... 2/832.html
- http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/ ... /1164.html
- http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/ ... 1/139.html
- http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/ ... 0/220.html

My concern is that the change happened 4 years ago - hence the question will become why has it taken so long for you to complain. My intended response is I have been been complaining for 4 years and been trying to mediate!

It seems that all is that required is just a letter stating my objection, a letter from someone else stating they agree that it is noisy - that is all it takes. The neighbour can then make a written submission. There is no in-person hearing. A written decision is made.

The decision then can be appealed at a in-person hearing if desired. The in-person hearing can then be appealed to the NSW District Court.

One thing that had come up in my earlier research is exactly what you pointed out OliveOilMum - I need to demonstrate that a "reasonable" "average" person has an issue with the noise. Any mention of being aspie with sensitive hearing will lead to accusations that the "average" person would not have an issue....

I would suggest that you invite some people over and ask them to listen to the footsteps and to tell them that they find them bothersome as well. Pay them to say it if you have to. It's not that bad of a thing to do. Nowhere near as bad as slowly going insane from a constant water torture type thing with the steps overhead constantly.

Try and get another neighbor or two on your side for this. The downside of that is that you will have to be sociable with them to get them to like you and take your side. Fake it. It'll be worth it in the end.

I also second what LabPet said about the ceiling. Call some contractors and find out what your options are.

Oooh! I just thought of something. Look in the phone book for some companies that do soundproofing. Talk to them and see if you can find something you can do in your place that isn't too expensive. It might be cheaper to soundproof your ceiling than it would be to pay to get them wall to wall carpeting installed. It would also increase the value of your apartment too, I'd think, so you recoup it when you sell.

Your average dum-dum is obsessed with "keeping up with the Joneses"... that means granite countertops and "hardwood floors" (In quotes, because even looking like real wood is enough to impress most of 'em.)

Dum-dums also plop their feet heavy... Unless they start wearing slippers, you're stuck with it. May want to consider moving...

I prefer Saltillo Tile floors.

Thanks again for the support OliceOilMom and BlueMax.

I have consulted the local court officers and also started talking to a lawyer. It seems far easier than I thought - all I need to do is just get 2-3 people to write a letter in support of my application saying something like 'when I sit inside his apartment I can hear the footsteps and I agree it is very annoying' plus attach my statement noting he never had approval to install the floorboards in the first place and I have continually objected.

I have already gone down the ceiling route - I obtained the services of acoustic consultants who all thought I was quite ill after I started talking about how I enjoyed total silence "like a tomb". In short, they told me it will cost $40,000 and it would be illegal because my ceiling was 2.1m and the legal minimum is 2.1m. I cant lower the ceiling. They further told me that I sounded obsessive and perfectionistic - that I would never be happy with anything other than perfect silence and their services could only reduce noise, not completely eliminate it. As such, they did not want to work with me as I sounded like a difficult customer who would give them headaches.

I then thought about selling - but after agents commission, government taxes on selling a property, government taxes on buying a property, etc - it comes up $40,000 again.

It is much cheaper to just spend $1,000 on a lawyer and offer to give the neighbour $2,000 to just fix the problem immediately. My idea is that we say - I will give you $2,000 if you fix it immediately. If you do not fix it, I will no longer offer the money and I will force him to remove it at his own cost through additional legal avenues - which will result in a mounting legal bill for him. I think this is the most effective approach - I know he will not like having to remove the floorboard - but if I can convince him he will soon have no option but to do so plus if he does it quickly he can do it for free then he might accept?

My worry is that I have to sit through a face to face mediation with him. I am thinking of just sending my lawyer so I dont need to deal with it. That said, it could start getting expensive....my thinking is hey whatever it costs it will be far less than $40,000.....at most it will be $5,000....

When you get lawyers involved, there's no such thing as, "At most, it will cost X". There's a good chance they'll suck every penny out of you and still leave you with the problem of the people upstairs having a giant bass drum of a floor and mallets for feet. If you're taking action against them, they'll only retaliate by stomping harder knowing it pisses you off.

I don't see a way to win this one... unless you can make friends and convince 'em to wear slippers?

Next time, either get a detached home or the top floor. Easy for me to say, a condo is all I could afford and I'd be in the same boat as you!

We changed our floors because of our dogs. The carpets were ruined and I was not living in a place that smelled of dog pee anymore. We got laminate floors instead. Real wood would have been more expensive, but the upkeep would have been more in terms of labor. I know this because our last house had hardwood floors. I'm a floor waxer. They looked beautiful but I'm never doing that again. Laminate looks great, doesn't cost that much, and is indestructable and unstainable it seems. It's perfect for me.