Ashamed of Being White
19 Jan 2013, 5:20 am
I know this might be odd to say this but a lot of times I feel guilty for being white and having to take the blame for all the history that other caucasian groups have done. All the racism and such even to other whites like the Irish. I have been hassled alot for being white and it is sinking in that I am subhuman and scum and I am starting to accept that its ok to hate myself for being white at times. Although none of my ancestors partook in enslaving others I still feel guilty of the history otherwhites have done from the near extermination of aboriginal people of countries they settle in or invade to slavery and segregaton.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
19 Jan 2013, 5:44 am
AspieOtaku wrote:
I know this might be odd to say this but a lot of times I feel guilty for being white and having to take the blame for all the history that other caucasian groups have done. All the racism and such even to other whites like the Irish. I have been hassled alot for being white and it is sinking in that I am subhuman and scum and I am starting to accept that its ok to hate myself for being white at times. Although none of my ancestors partook in enslaving others I still feel guilty of the history otherwhites have done from the near extermination of aboriginal people of countries they settle in or invade to slavery and segregaton.
bleeding heart mentalities have never appealed to me. i am not responsible for what color i am and neither is anyone else. people who "fall on their sword" in an attempt to seem altruistic by sacrificing their sense of self worth in order to atone for wrongs that they never committed seem weak to me.
i have never hurt anyone of color, and i do not think i am superior to any member of another race. i do not "howl with the wolves" of my kind. i do not accept any blame for what people of my color have done to anyone else. the "whiteness" of people's skins is not the reason for any infringement on other people's rights. whiteness is not an attitude or an indication of fallible morality.
i do not feel personally responsible for any atrocities that other people have committed, and i think that your association of being white with being ruthless and heartless is just as racist as the racism that you rebel against.
it is a common sentiment by young people who are smarting against the idea of racism by whites against blacks (or moreover, white usurpation of their resources and labor) that makes them offer themselves as an almost sacrificial lamb in a kind of martyristic way that they hope other people will praise them for and also reassure them (you in this case) that they are innocent.
anyway, i am not ashamed of what i am. if i was black i would also not be ashamed.
skin color is not important to me and does not define the goodness that is within.
19 Jan 2013, 6:03 am
You're being a little silly.
Sure, white people have done a lot of horrible things, but so have all other cultures and colours.
And it's still happening everywhere - just look at the news.
Some well-known cruel 'leaders' of different backgrounds:
Hitler, Stalin, Ghengis Khan, Idi Amin, Bin Laden, Pol Pot...
Cruelty does not discriminate.
19 Jan 2013, 6:09 am
Did you, personally, commit any of those acts of cruelty you mentioned? I don't think so.
Stop feeling guilty for them. You should judge yourself only on the basis of your own actions.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
19 Jan 2013, 6:33 am
I've dealt with a lot of reverse racism at times and it seems to be acceptable behavior these days. I am supposedly privileged when I don't have any its just tearing me down and I am learning to accept it I have been holding it in so long I figured I would let it out.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
19 Jan 2013, 9:34 am
AspieOtaku wrote:
I've dealt with a lot of reverse racism at times and it seems to be acceptable behavior these days. I am supposedly privileged when I don't have any its just tearing me down and I am learning to accept it I have been holding it in so long I figured I would let it out.
You don't sound ashamed at all. You sound angry or confused. Saying that white people experience privilege is not a reflection on you as a person, and it is not a personal attack. It is the truth. You're either lacking knowledge about how this works, or willfully ignoring it. The deal is, oppression and privilege is a very complex thing, and one can simultaneously occupy many positions in the kyriarchy. That does not mean that you don't have white privilege. Or I assume, male privilege, if you're cis. But you're also not neurotypical which is decidedly unprivileged. Then we have to factor in class, sexual orientation, education level, body size, and here's a good list of other examples with links to more information http://privilege101.tumblr.com/post/598 ... n-progress
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~haydo20s/classweb/world_politics/kyriarchy.html wrote:
Kyriarchy is a term that extends patriarchy to encompass and connect to other structures of oppression and privilege, such as racism, ableism, capitalism, etc. Basically, the term kyriarchy recognizes that there are overlapping, complicated power strata. It takes intersections into account. As Lisa says, "It's about the human tendency for everyone trying to take the role of lord/master within a pyramid." I would argue that this is not necessarily a human tendency so much as a tendency that has been cultivated through the continuing creation and extension of power structures. In a global system that is about grabbing whatever power you can and keeping what you accumulate or already have, and shunting those who do not have that power, it becomes a rather inevitable tendency. However, if this pyramid of power structures, and the rat race involved, is challenged, this tendency is no longer inevitable.
These are very simplistic examples in that there are usually many more forces at work, many axes and layers of axes of power. For the purposes of this website the examples are rather stilted. When considering particular individuals, problems become more complex. When I am speaking to another person, all of my positions on different power axes come into play. For that matter, even on the same power axis, I have varying levels of privilege and oppression. For example, on the axis of ability -- I am hearing impaired, but to a particular extent in relation to others. I also struggle with various mental health related issues, and again it is important to consider the extent and my history. When I speak to a person who has schizophrenia, I have ablebodied privilege because I don't have schizophrenia. Then again, if their hearing is intact, they have ablebodied privilege over me in that respect. It is important to see kyriarchy for how complex it is, and to see that we exist on spectrums of privilege and oppression, and the points at which we exist change and vary. However, this is not an excuse for privilege. We cannot deny any or all of the privileges we have at any given point if we are to truly recognize power systems.
Lisa also goes on to say that kyriarchy is "about recognizing the power-over relationships that exist because of property, religion, security, economics, citizenship, and geography." This should give you an idea of the great variety of factors that must be taken into account when considering kyriarchy. This website sums up (in part) several very broad categories of power, but it is important to recognize the myriad other factors that constitute and overlap between the categories of patriarchy, racism, heterosexism, capitalism and ableism.
These are very simplistic examples in that there are usually many more forces at work, many axes and layers of axes of power. For the purposes of this website the examples are rather stilted. When considering particular individuals, problems become more complex. When I am speaking to another person, all of my positions on different power axes come into play. For that matter, even on the same power axis, I have varying levels of privilege and oppression. For example, on the axis of ability -- I am hearing impaired, but to a particular extent in relation to others. I also struggle with various mental health related issues, and again it is important to consider the extent and my history. When I speak to a person who has schizophrenia, I have ablebodied privilege because I don't have schizophrenia. Then again, if their hearing is intact, they have ablebodied privilege over me in that respect. It is important to see kyriarchy for how complex it is, and to see that we exist on spectrums of privilege and oppression, and the points at which we exist change and vary. However, this is not an excuse for privilege. We cannot deny any or all of the privileges we have at any given point if we are to truly recognize power systems.
Lisa also goes on to say that kyriarchy is "about recognizing the power-over relationships that exist because of property, religion, security, economics, citizenship, and geography." This should give you an idea of the great variety of factors that must be taken into account when considering kyriarchy. This website sums up (in part) several very broad categories of power, but it is important to recognize the myriad other factors that constitute and overlap between the categories of patriarchy, racism, heterosexism, capitalism and ableism.
Do you know what white privilege entails, before you dismiss it?
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html wrote:
Daily effects of white privilege
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
19 Jan 2013, 10:03 am
haha, are you serious? There is nothing to be ashamed of.
I love it when some bleeding heart pops up to tell me of my white male privilege... coming from Appalachia, from a disastrous trash family, I can really relate, oh sure. These people are so stupid.
Not to mention my disability, which caused me no end of setbacks such that I have hardly had a career up until now.
Some white people really do suck, I have to admit. But most are just trying to get by, like all the rest.
G
19 Jan 2013, 1:41 pm
you have been falling into subversion. every race has done horrible things, hell some still do. also slavery is extreamly overblown in the big picture.
only thousands owned slaves out of millions the south had free blacks. there was even a black Confederate battalion. owning slaves was a thing for the rich. the slave trade was run by jews who bought slaves from African kings who captured them.
also whites have committed the least genocides
19 Jan 2013, 2:44 pm
Sometimes I wish I could change my race but it cant be done sucks kinda being the most hated race in the world. I have to take blame for everything these days.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
19 Jan 2013, 2:58 pm
AspieOtaku wrote:
I know this might be odd to say this but a lot of times I feel guilty for being white and having to take the blame for all the history that other caucasian groups have done. All the racism and such even to other whites like the Irish. I have been hassled alot for being white and it is sinking in that I am subhuman and scum and I am starting to accept that its ok to hate myself for being white at times. Although none of my ancestors partook in enslaving others I still feel guilty of the history otherwhites have done from the near extermination of aboriginal people of countries they settle in or invade to slavery and segregaton.
Well did you play in role in any of those atrocities? If not you certainly should not blame yourself under any circumstance. Also you will find the white color of skin is not to blame for any atrocities of the past...its typically certian groups of white people. For instance The Nazis what they did hardly accounts for the behavior of Germans over all it was their twisted ideology and fascist system that lead to the holocaust not the fact their skin was white. Also those problems you mention are more an issue of things like imperialism and certian religious perspectives for instance the white settlers that came to america and then proceeded to essentially destroy the native cultures and take all the land because it was 'their god given right to have that land.' SO if anything religion is more to blame than skin color. I
Racism is suppossed to make you feel bad for being the race you are, so its no wonder it makes you feel that way...but just keep in mind it would be the racist individual with the problem not you so I would try not to pay much mind to it. You can have a problem with historical atrocities committed by those of the white race without hating yourself for being white.....since it does not mean you played any role in any of that.
_________________
We won't go back.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
19 Jan 2013, 3:01 pm
PTSmorrow wrote:
I'm utterly PROUD to be white and decidedly oppose mixing of the races and "multicultural" junk. Apartheid would be a good thing, however I didn't say that others should get inferior stuff unless they prove they don't deserve better.
Well there are many races in the world, a whole planet of mixing of the races.....so what ever will you do?
_________________
We won't go back.
19 Jan 2013, 3:02 pm
Anomiel wrote:
You don't sound ashamed at all. You sound angry or confused. Saying that white people experience privilege is not a reflection on you as a person, and it is not a personal attack. It is the truth. You're either lacking knowledge about how this works, or willfully ignoring it.
Yes, but white people aren't the only ones that experience such 'privilege'. I don't think it's actually a privilege, and I think using language like that, yes, is an attack on white people and an attempt to demonise and shame them (even if you claim it's not). It would a lot more honest to not use words like 'oppression' (which infantilises non-white people and gives them a victimhood mentality), but to deal with instances of discrimination where they exist.
I could take you to areas of Northern England where being a white person in the evenings would be a dangerous thing to be. Do they have "Asian privilege"? It's funny that bubbleheads like you don't seem interested in talking about "privilege" in general, but only when it applies to white people, because, at the end of the day, you're a racist.
I'm not particularly proud of my whiteness, but I sure as hell am not ashamed of it either. I'd expect an East Asian, South Asian, black, West Indian, African etc etc person to feel the same.
19 Jan 2013, 3:31 pm
Tequila wrote:
It's funny that bubbleheads like you don't seem interested in talking about "privilege" in general, but only when it applies to white people, because, at the end of the day, you're a racist.
You sir, are an idiot. What do you think intersectionality is about?
I'll repost:
Saying that white people experience privilege is not a reflection on you as a person, and it is not a personal attack. It is the truth. You're either lacking knowledge about how this works, or willfully ignoring it. The deal is, oppression and privilege is a very complex thing, and one can simultaneously occupy many positions in the kyriarchy. That does not mean that you don't have white privilege. Or I assume, male privilege, if you're cis. But you're also not neurotypical which is decidedly unprivileged. Then we have to factor in class, sexual orientation, education level, body size, and here's a good list of other examples with links to more information http://privilege101.tumblr.com/post/598 ... n-progress
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~haydo20s/classweb/world_politics/kyriarchy.html wrote:
Kyriarchy is a term that extends patriarchy to encompass and connect to other structures of oppression and privilege, such as racism, ableism, capitalism, etc. Basically, the term kyriarchy recognizes that there are overlapping, complicated power strata. It takes intersections into account. As Lisa says, "It's about the human tendency for everyone trying to take the role of lord/master within a pyramid." I would argue that this is not necessarily a human tendency so much as a tendency that has been cultivated through the continuing creation and extension of power structures. In a global system that is about grabbing whatever power you can and keeping what you accumulate or already have, and shunting those who do not have that power, it becomes a rather inevitable tendency. However, if this pyramid of power structures, and the rat race involved, is challenged, this tendency is no longer inevitable.
These are very simplistic examples in that there are usually many more forces at work, many axes and layers of axes of power. For the purposes of this website the examples are rather stilted. When considering particular individuals, problems become more complex. When I am speaking to another person, all of my positions on different power axes come into play. For that matter, even on the same power axis, I have varying levels of privilege and oppression. For example, on the axis of ability -- I am hearing impaired, but to a particular extent in relation to others. I also struggle with various mental health related issues, and again it is important to consider the extent and my history. When I speak to a person who has schizophrenia, I have ablebodied privilege because I don't have schizophrenia. Then again, if their hearing is intact, they have ablebodied privilege over me in that respect. It is important to see kyriarchy for how complex it is, and to see that we exist on spectrums of privilege and oppression, and the points at which we exist change and vary. However, this is not an excuse for privilege. We cannot deny any or all of the privileges we have at any given point if we are to truly recognize power systems.
Lisa also goes on to say that kyriarchy is "about recognizing the power-over relationships that exist because of property, religion, security, economics, citizenship, and geography." This should give you an idea of the great variety of factors that must be taken into account when considering kyriarchy. This website sums up (in part) several very broad categories of power, but it is important to recognize the myriad other factors that constitute and overlap between the categories of patriarchy, racism, heterosexism, capitalism and ableism.
These are very simplistic examples in that there are usually many more forces at work, many axes and layers of axes of power. For the purposes of this website the examples are rather stilted. When considering particular individuals, problems become more complex. When I am speaking to another person, all of my positions on different power axes come into play. For that matter, even on the same power axis, I have varying levels of privilege and oppression. For example, on the axis of ability -- I am hearing impaired, but to a particular extent in relation to others. I also struggle with various mental health related issues, and again it is important to consider the extent and my history. When I speak to a person who has schizophrenia, I have ablebodied privilege because I don't have schizophrenia. Then again, if their hearing is intact, they have ablebodied privilege over me in that respect. It is important to see kyriarchy for how complex it is, and to see that we exist on spectrums of privilege and oppression, and the points at which we exist change and vary. However, this is not an excuse for privilege. We cannot deny any or all of the privileges we have at any given point if we are to truly recognize power systems.
Lisa also goes on to say that kyriarchy is "about recognizing the power-over relationships that exist because of property, religion, security, economics, citizenship, and geography." This should give you an idea of the great variety of factors that must be taken into account when considering kyriarchy. This website sums up (in part) several very broad categories of power, but it is important to recognize the myriad other factors that constitute and overlap between the categories of patriarchy, racism, heterosexism, capitalism and ableism.
Do you know what white privilege entails, before you dismiss it?
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html wrote:
Daily effects of white privilege
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
19 Jan 2013, 3:43 pm
Anomiel wrote:
Tequila wrote:
It's funny that bubbleheads like you don't seem interested in talking about "privilege" in general, but only when it applies to white people, because, at the end of the day, you're a racist.
You sir, are an idiot. What do you think intersectionality is about?
I think it's about psychobabble and pretentiously using words to make yourself seem like a ludicrous enlightened priesthood.
I'm against racism, but I'm not an anti-racist (because these people are usually racists). I'm against discrimination of most - but not all, for obvious reasons - kinds.
There are and always will be problems regarding discrimination. The difference is, who are the people who continually dress themselves in hair-shirts over it and spend the entire time moaning about it, and who are those people who recognise that it exists and try to combat it as best they can without descending into victimhood?
19 Jan 2013, 4:18 pm
http://aspergersquare8.blogspot.se/2009/08/checklist-of-neurotypical-privilege-new.html wrote:
In compiling this list, we have been acutely aware that the topic of privilege is one many people find hard to digest. For anyone who has not come across the concept before, or who feels that he or she does not fully understand what it means in this context, I highly recommend reading the original McIntosh article in its entirety before beginning the list of neurotypical privilege presented here. For those who find themselves feeling defensive upon reading, you are not alone. For most of us, this is a necessary part of the process of acknowledging and understanding privilege. Here are a few basic things to remember about privilege:
Privilege is not your fault. It is an artifact of systems that favor some people over others, systems that have evolved naturally to meet the needs of the majority, but have failed to provide adequate accommodations for those outside it. For more information on understanding and confronting privilege, please see this link.
Privilege is not, in itself, a terrible thing. Having any form of privilege does not make you a bad person. Just about everyone has some form of privilege. No, that doesn’t mean it all somehow “balances out.” A person can have, for example, white privilege, male privilege, class privilege, and heterosexual privilege, while still lacking neurotypical privilege. Likewise, not all autistic people have had the same experiences; other forms of privilege can act as a cushion against many of the harsher realities endured by those who belong to multiple disenfranchised groups.
The statement that privilege exists is not an accusation or attempt to blame. It is an invitation to see your experiences and the experiences of others in a new light. It is not an admonition to change the world, but a simple tool with which to begin considering if, possibly, some changes might be worth working toward.
Privilege is not your fault. It is an artifact of systems that favor some people over others, systems that have evolved naturally to meet the needs of the majority, but have failed to provide adequate accommodations for those outside it. For more information on understanding and confronting privilege, please see this link.
Privilege is not, in itself, a terrible thing. Having any form of privilege does not make you a bad person. Just about everyone has some form of privilege. No, that doesn’t mean it all somehow “balances out.” A person can have, for example, white privilege, male privilege, class privilege, and heterosexual privilege, while still lacking neurotypical privilege. Likewise, not all autistic people have had the same experiences; other forms of privilege can act as a cushion against many of the harsher realities endured by those who belong to multiple disenfranchised groups.
The statement that privilege exists is not an accusation or attempt to blame. It is an invitation to see your experiences and the experiences of others in a new light. It is not an admonition to change the world, but a simple tool with which to begin considering if, possibly, some changes might be worth working toward.
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