black mold

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So, I dropped something on my bathroom floor yesterday and when I bent down to pick it up, I noticed I have what appears to be black mold growing under my toilet. (About a year ago, my ceiling fan broke in my bathroom and I asked my landlord to fix it, but she wouldn’t. There is also no window for ventilation in the room. I keep the place very clean, but it has been rather damp and humid in there).

Also, a year and a half ago, a large plumbing leak in the wall between my bathroom and bedroom got bad enough to cause a big, open hole in the garage ceiling downstairs and the water damage was never dealt with properly. (My landlord’s friend just replaced the leaking pipe, then put cardboard over the hole! As far as I know, none of the insulation or anything was replaced). So, I now even wonder if there could be mold in my walls that I don’t know about.

I've been having a lot of unexplained health problems over the last year and am also wondering if exposure to this could be what has been making me so sick. I've been tested for a number of conditions and, so far, everything has come back negative, but I'm continuing to get sicker.

Since I know there are a number of dark-colored molds and not all of them are too harmful, I'd like to get testing done to see if I have a problem with one of the types that actually is. I will probably need to have it done at my expense at this point, since I can never get my landlord to fix anything or take any problems with the property seriously. And, if I wind up having to break my lease, I need to have the reason documented.

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the life cycle of mold and whether mold that is underneath a wallcovering would be able to cause problems. I've noticed that my health problems worsen when there is a fluctuation in moisture or temperature levels and was wondering if these things also cause mold to release spores or MVOC's. Basically, I'm curious if certain conditions might affect the accuracy of the testing before I pay to have it done.

If any of you guys have dealt with mold issues or have advice, I am all ears! Thanks.

 Bleach it.
If you can't make it white mold at least make it grey mold... much safer.




Black mold



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My areas of concern, though, are a porous ceramic surface on the underside of the toilet and the water-damaged areas inside two walls and flooring. If it was on a small area of some kind of non-porous surface that might work, but I'm afraid it won't here. I just want to find out if I actually have a strain of black mold and move if I do.

I was hoping someone might know a little about the testing process, but, if not, that is okay. A coworker of mine knows a guy who runs a business that tests for hazardous stuff like this in residential settings and has a call into him, but I'm just stressed out about this and was hoping to learn more in the meantime while I am waiting to hear back. Also curious to hear if anyone has personal experience with this and what health issues they might have dealt with as a result.

As it happens, I am also having a mold problem in my apartment at the moment.

Since there was a leak that caused serioius water damage, it is very likely that there is mold in your walls. Bleach won't help. It will kill the surface mold but it will just come back after a few days; it will not stop you from being exposed to mold spores in the air since the mold will still be in the walls.

You need to get out of there ASAP as long-term exposure to mold can cause extremely serious health problems. Search for "haunted by mold nytimes" for example (I do not have enough posts to be able to provide a direct link). The mold is probably also a violation of the sanitary code and you can force your landlord to fix it by having the city inspect your apartment and showing them the mold and water damage. They will order the landlord to fix it within a certain amount of time. Search for the inspectional services office (or equivalent) for your city and contact them to schedule an inspection.

Mold removal often requires major renovations to be completely removed. You will likely have to stay out of the apartment for a few weeks while the mold is removed. However, landlords have certain obligations in terms of making the apartments they rent suitable for human habitation (in particular by ensuring that there are no violations of the sanitary code) and are likely responsible for providing you with other accommodations while renovations are in progress to remove the mold. You should research the relevant landlord tenant laws in your state in order to learn your landlord's responsibilities. It may also be useful to consult a landlord-tenant lawyer.

Since you are experiencing health problems that may be due to the mold and your landlord has failed to properly fix the issue for so long, she may be liable for damages. Even if you do not wish to start a lawsuit, you can likely force significant concessions from your landlord by having a lawyer threaten to sue (or just threatening this yourself). This could include paying for a place for you to stay or your moving expenses if you decide to leave and find an apartment without mold that has a more responsible landlord.

This might seem like an overreaction but mold can be a very serious problem and it is clear that your landlord is reluctant to properly address the problem. You need to address this issue ASAP before your health is further jeopardized.

Good luck.

^^Thanks. And, no, that doesn't seem like overreacting to me at all.

My coworker's friend who owns the mold testing and remediation company is going to be giving me a good price on the testing, but I spoke with them today and the problem is that they need to have a letter from my landlord giving permission to perform the testing. It is apparently a liability issue for them not to have this.

Since my landlord is an 85 yr-old woman who speaks limited English and is never willing to have anything done to the place, getting her to write a letter is going to be difficult for more than one reason. I am not sure where this leaves me. I am going to attempt to draft a basic letter tonight and ask her to sign it. Not sure what else I can do.

I've been getting a lot sicker the last few weeks and really need to have this checked out.

And, by the way, good luck with your own mold issue, Qubit!

Testing the mold may be useful in order to document the presence of the mold and water damage; however, in terms of whether you can stay there, it is somewhat irrelevant. All types of mold can be a health hazard in sufficient concentrations. The term "toxic mold" was invented by the media and is inaccurate. You really need to get out of there ASAP until the mold issue is resolved since it is already making you sick. Long-term mold exposure can cause serious permanent health problems. It really isn't worth the risk.

Your landlord may not like it but she has legal obligations that she cannot ignore without facing the consequences. If she is unwilling to resolve the issue your options are compelling her to do so by having the city inspect the premises or initiating legal action against her. Obvioiusly, it isn't a desirable option but there isn't much choice other than living with the mold and allowing it to further damage your health.

I tried speaking with my landlord about this and did so very nicely, but she put me on the phone with her daughter in law, who got quite nasty with me and told me none of the previous tenants had issues, so it must just be me and they were not willing to do testing because it would "open a whole can of worms." She then continued to say it would be in my best interest to find a new place to live.

So, now I don't know what to do, but I'd like to get what that woman, who is not even on my lease, said in writing. I'm fearful they will try to come after me with financial penalties for breaking my lease, unless I have that. To make matters worse, my LL's whole extended family is coming up from Puerto Rico to visit for a week, so it will be all 15 of them and me on the property all week, so I'm scared to deal with them and, after the phone conversation this evening, hope I don't get harassed.

I also went in to see another specialist today, a hematology/oncology person, and had a voicemail from her telling me that some of the blood tests they drew this afternoon were too low, she is concerned and I need to call her tomorrow. I have no idea what that means, but know I feel like hell, and am not up to the stress of trying to deal with this whole legal mess, find another place to live ASAP and move myself. And, if I can't find a place right away, I don't have people I can easily stay with and, since I'm apparently really stupid, I don't have renter's insurance.

Plus, without knowing if there are toxic substances in my home or not because I'm being barred from doing testing, I don't know what is safe to take with me and what needs to be replaced. It's a mess. I was hoping to not be home much tomorrow, so I could get out of this environment and avoid dealing with my LL's son tomorrow, but I'm so upset I've been unable to sleep and have been awake over 24 hours, so I guess I won't be making it into work. The stress of this last year has just taken it's toll and this is seeming like the final breaking point for me.

Mod's, I know this has veered pretty far off from being a discussion about the science of mold or something. Feel free to move it to The Haven, if appropriate. Probably is appropriate given that my whole life's falling apart here and I honestly wish I was dead.

[Moved from Computers, Math, Science, and Technology to The Haven]

I hope things improve for you very soon.

First, document everything. Pictures, letters received & sent, return receipts, a log of phone calls with who was spoken to and what was discussed...

In PA, having neither a window or a working vent fan in a bathroom is by itself a code violation. You can report this to your local (city/town/county/) building code inspection department. They will send notice to your landlord and she will have to correct this or be fined. Mention the water leak to them, too. The same department may deal with all aspects of rental properties, or they may refer you to another dept. (like Health & Safety). Either way, they may want to enter the building to see the damage and "repair". While you're talking to them, ask if they test for mold if they suspect it. Its worth asking and even if they don't, they may know how to get it done inexpensively. And tell them about the mold you can see. Take photos of everything visible before attempting to bleach it away.

You aren't going to be able to do anything to clean up mold that is in the walls. If there is a mold problem, most likely the affected walls, ceiling, etc., will have to be removed and replaced with new studs, wallboard, plywood, etc. Doing all that is your landlord's headache, not yours.

There are do it yourself mold test kits available online and in some stores (home depot has one, or search amazon for 'mold test kit') I don't know how accurate any of them are, but they might tell you something, like no mold found, or lots of bad molds found. Then you have some kind of information, instead of not knowing anything.

Last, have you looked for a tenants rights organization near you? They may be able to give you specific guidance and legal advice. Sometimes these orgs get lawyers to donate their time or have brochures with legal info. If your apartment is uninhabitable due to mold, a tenant org may help you know what your legal options are.

Yes, ironically enough I used to serve on their board, but my area of expertise was the ADA as it pertains to housing because of the line of work I'm in. With this whole situation, though, I am out of my depth a little. They are down to a one-man show, due to budget cuts, and I can't get in touch with that guy. He may be on vacation or something, which sucks greatly for me.

I also got in touch with my local township's commercial zoning person and they said they don't have a program to inspect rental units and it is considered a civil matter between me and my landlord. That doesn't seem quite right to me, though, and I'm wondering if maybe I was given misinformation. I might try to look into that a little more.

Call the local county bar association, they may be able to point you in the right direction on a pro bono basis.

What you described is absolute BS.

If you don't want to deal with the legal issues with your landlord, you could try asking them if they are willing to let you out of your lease. They may be glad to see you go if you have been arguing a lot with them about the mold problem. You could also inform them that if they do not, you will have the city inspect the place (which you should do anyway) and/or exercise legal options. This may be an effective threat even if you do not intend to follow through. Definitely document as much as you can and tell them that you have evidence of the conditions. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't sound like this situation can be resolved without conflict. If they agree, make sure they give you some kind of written confirmation and you can prove that they agreed to it.

Getting out of your lease lets your landlord off the hook in terms of satisfying her legal obligations but it may be easier and less stressful for you. If you want a record of what your landlord said, you could also check if recording the telephone conversation is legal where you live. In many states, only one party needs to consent for the conversation to be recorded. Be careful though; there are stiff penalties in some places where it is not allowed.

Finally, you can always just leave. Even if you have a lease they can usually only charge you rent until they find someone else to rent to. You might not even be legally required to pay rent at all in this situation given the health hazard and code violations.

I don't think there is really a consensus on if it is safe to bring your things with you when you move out. Personally, I plan to bring my stuff from my apartment with me but it's hard to say if that is the right choice.

Ugh, we ended up moving primarily because of reoccurring mold. The landlord kept repatching the roof, and it kept leaking in the same spot each season. Hope you get your situation cleared up soon.

Last edited by MjrMajorMajor on 14 Jun 2013, 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I hate landlords. My last one was a real SOB, the property manager too. These are what I refer to as slumlords, because they don't give a crap about things wrong with their properties. Don't worry, there's a special hell for all of these kind of people, trust me. Karma will come back to bite them in the ass, trust me.

In Pennsylvania, all parties to a conversation must consent to it being recorded. I looked this up a few years ago when it would have been useful.

And now back to the OP:

Possible angles:

Contact the code enforcement or building dept. about the lack of either a fan or a window in the bathroom. Some of these departments are absolutely rabid, and could forbid the use of the bathroom until it meets code, forcing your landlord to fix the fan, or they can't rent the apartment.

Send your landlord written notice, via certified mail with return receipt, giving her a deadline to remedy the bathroom fan or you do it yourself and deduct the cost from your rent. This does nothing about any mold in the walls, but it will help reduce the moisture in that room.

Contact the county health dept. to see what would be required for them to declare the apt. a health hazard & uninhabitable. That would get you out of the lease, but would take time and may require you to have testing done. Short of an independent agency declaring it uninhabitable, it will indeed become a court case where you will have to prove the harmful condition of the premises.

The best scenario may be what another poster mentioned: see if the landlord will agree to early termination of the lease.

No matter what, I think you'll have to fight to get your security deposit back. Be prepared to either give it up or go to small claims court against the landlord when you move out.

Best of luck.

So, here's an update. I met with my landlord one-on-one and told her I was having health problems and wanted to move to be closer to family and that I would give her 60 days' notice. (That is completely true and I thought it would be a better route to go for getting out of the lease than discussing all the repair issues again, which would put her on the defensive). She was amicable, said she was sorry to see me go because I'd been a good tenant, but that I needed to do what I needed to do.

We chatted for a while and when I got up to leave, I asked her again if she was okay with the terms we'd just discussed and she said it was fine and that it was my decision. I said I'd just wanted to make sure we were on the same page, though, and arriving at an arrangement that was okay for both of us because of the lease. She replied, "Well, that expired a long time ago."

Evidently, she did not understand the lease she had me sign or that it has an automatic renewal clause. I just nodded and left, but now I'm really stressed out because I have this fear in the back of my mind her family might look into it further and try to come after me legally later on for leaving early.

Ugh. It certainly doesn't seem right that I should have to explain the terms of her lease to her, especially after having both her (amicably) and her family (not so amicably) tell me I should/could move, but I still am really anxious about all of this and wish I could get this permission from her to leave in writing without further complicating the situation, which is the last thing I want to do now. She even mentioned returning my security deposit.

Everyone I've spoken with about all of this giving my conflicting advice and that's just adding to my stress.