Hey Folks (I think I just lost my mother)

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I need someone to listen, even if no one really responds to what I've got to say. First off, don't worry, this isn't some suicide thing, but I am feeling very sad and depressed, because of a thing that I've done that is an unforgivable sin to me: I made my mother angry with me to the point she even called me 'sick'.

Granted, it was kinda my fault; allow me to explain. What started off as a simple conversation about admitting my weaknesses and personality flaws, turned into a conversation about how my father has been nothing but mean to me all my life (or at least, that how I felt about it when moi was a kid). I told her that my anger towards my dad has stemmed pretty much from the fact that he shoved me down once when I was 11 (and probably for something I rightfully deserved), and that I've wished him to die ever since.

Yeah, I pretty much told a wife that I've been wishing for her husband to die for almost 30 years, because I have a severe gift of never being able to let anything go. NOT a very wise thing to do. (efuam)

She reacted the way I expected her to react: she said on no uncertain terms that I'm sick in the head, that I need SERIOUS psychiatric help, and that this kind of talk made her angry, and I don't blame her one bit for it. Even though she calmed down after only a few minutes when I apologized, saying that I do love my father, I just have a hard time letting go,...I just can't shake that awful feeling in my gut that she's going to hold this against me for the rest of my life. I firmly believe that a sick f**k like me doesn't deserve to have such a loving and tolerant set of parents like I've had. S--t, even one of my own child psychologists had the balls to say in his notes, upon his first meeting with me, that "Jeff is an extremely disturbed child, and that any other set of parents would've given him up for adoption ages ago."

So...out of my own guilty conscience, I'm gonna fall back to an old standard of mine: try to PAY my way to her love, but giving her some of my check money tomorrow; if she doesn't want to accept it, I'll burn it. It's as simple as that. I wanna feel like I've lost something to make myself feel better about making her upset. That's my self-abasement for you. I've had it all my life, and it's not gonna go away any time soon.

What's you guyses take on all this? Don't be shy...if you think I need help, then don't be afraid to say so.

Fluttershy11, aka Jeffrey

Your Dad should never have shoved you. It's not OK to hit people unless in self-defense.

I held a grudge against my bio mom for years,till just recently.I'm not mad and don't hate her anymore.The question is,do you think you need help?What have you got to lose with therapy?Instead of bringing her money,can you think of something she needs?Are there some chores you can do for her?Favorite candy,flowers,or food?That is more personal than money.

Well, I don't wanna go into too much detail, for fear of getting the anger again, but all I'll say is that I did kind of had it coming, pushing his hand away when he was trying to console me.

I don't live at the old homestead anymore, I have my own apartment. And she can always buy what she needs with the cash that I'll give her.

(hey...ftc.) all because I can't erase posts completely.

The therapist and your parents have got it wrong.
For you father to have physically assaulted you - that's what shoving is, is wrong.
For you to have gone so far in believing anything you could do would deserve that proves how much your parents have screwed you up.
For your mother to have said you are ill and need serious therapy; well that would be because she can't face the fact that the way she and your dad treated you made you what you are today.
They're blaming their inadequacy as parents on you, and making you feel like you have a problem.
I copped that from my family for most of my life.
It's only since I've been with my second wife that I've realised just how toxic my family are.

You don't have a choice who your parents are, how they treat you, or what kind of mental condition or neurological condition you have.
You do have the right to say enough is enough, and if like me (and it sounds like my story) you have lived through psychological abuse, emotional blackmail, and physical assault, you do have the right to cut your family off.
Likewise if that feels too harsh, you do have the right to bring up your concerns with them, without them abusing you in return.
First option would be to invite them to a therapy session with you, so you can have an independent or otherwise uninvolved person as a referee as you try to bring this up for discussion.
You may find that cutting contact is the only solution that will work long term, but it really sounds like the baggage you have it the baggage your parents gave you, that they don't want to admit being responsible for.
I know it's hard, and your parents are your parents for life, but if they are not as compassionate, understanding, and mature as you are, you really have to consider if it's worth all the bother being involved with them at all.

My take on this is the same as that of benh72.

So basically you are not getting validation for your very valid feelings.

I have had this happen over and over again with my parents.

I have found that a lot of my problem with not being able to let go of certain things stems from the fact that my feelings were never validated by those who were suppose to care for and protect me. I also realize that it's not likely that they ever will validate my feelings, which is the hard part. I have noticed that people, especially parents, are really defensive about their own behaviors and how it affects others. It's a selfish act IMO. I know I have personally been guilty of it as well.

I learned not too long ago that forgiveness is important, not for the other person, but for myself. Forgiving someone doesn't mean I forget, that I am okay with how everything played out, or that I allow it to happen again. It just means I allow myself not to worry with it anymore. It's much easier said than done and it's something we have to constantly work on.

Something that sticks out here is that your reactions to things seem to go to extremes.

While it may be wrong for your father to have shoved you, was this behavior extreme enough to warrant an anger held for 30 years?

While you might have spoken angrily about your father to your mother, is that such a terrible thing that she should refuse to associate with you?

I get the impression that you are interpreting events in a "worst case scenario" way which might be adding to your stress. The problem here is that if you do this, it can become a self fulfilling prophesy where you cause the very thing you are trying to prevent. For example, my mother has a bad fear of rejection so she tends to be jealous of any friends I have and tends to point out their flaws to me. This doesn't make me want to interact with her more. It actually tends to drive me away. The result is I end up rejecting my mother; doing exactly the thing she is afraid of.

I'm wondering if perhaps you are creating exactly the problems you are afraid of by interpreting them as more extreme events than they actually might be. Ok, your father shoved you. It was wrong. But was it so terrible that it outweighs any good in him? Maybe he did far more than shove you. Maybe there are other things that need to be addressed. I only know the information that you provide. But it is important to try to see events with as sense of balance and perspective.

No one behaves perfectly. We all make mistakes. You do. Your father does. And so does your mother. If your relationship is toxic, then you have to get away from it. But it sounds like you don't want to lose the relationship with your mother. It seems to me that the best way to repair the situation is to back off from your extreme interpretations of events and try to look at your parents as imperfect people who care about you and would be willing to meet you half way. It sounds like there is emotional damage on both sides and it may take some time to rebuild trust, but if you want a good relationship with anyone, it requires humility, a sense of perspective, and sometimes a lot of hard work.

Good luck.

Last edited by jagatai on 09 Aug 2013, 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

this

I will agree with the need for forgiveness too. My situation was far more severe than that described by the OP. From the time I was eight years old, I heard every day, among other things, from my mother that I was her "cross to bear in life", I wasn't worth a damn, never would be, and that she was going to throw me out of her house. I heard every day from my father that I "wasn't normal" and a "loser". It's why I left my parents when I was sixteen never to return.

Though my parents are dead now, the rest of my family continued to treat me this way, and I haven't spoken to them in almost ten years. I have forgiven them, which means I've let the anger and indignation go. But forgiving them does NOT mean I will go back for more. I have too much respect for myself for that.

I think the blame can be more equally shared than you seem to think. I'm not going to stand here and say that you were completely innocent - saying you want anyone to die can be rather disturbing for the person hearing you say that. That said, what should have been a moment of opening up and communicating turned instead into one of blame and self-doubt, which is where your fault ceases. Here are the things that you said that make me feel there's problems on the other end as well.

I will say, shoving 30 years ago is probably something you should try to work through. But if it's part of a larger pattern (and it sounds like it is) it's understandable to still have problems with your family.

That doesn't mean you had it coming. That just means someone was trying to touch you when you didn't want to be touched and you reacted accordingly.



First of all, ignore this. Psychologists are just as fallible as the rest of us, and some of them say very stupid, inaccurate, and stigma-inducing things when it comes to autism (especially 30+ years ago...even 15 years ago a psychologist was still telling my mother she was a refrigerator mother). The fact that you still remember this is rather disturbing, actually. It indicates that either (a) you were able to read at the time and your parents gave you his notes, knowing full well what they said and you took it as being true and indicative of your lack of worth or (b) that someone has 'held this over your head', so to speak, by which I mean that your parents have reminded you of this fact since then, thereby showing you that they are "good parents" simply for dealing with you (there are much more requirements to being a good parent than that), reminding you that you've been deemed "extremely disturbed," and carrying with it the implicit threat that they can give you away, Neither of these choices sound very good (although a sounds a million times less bad than b).

I do think you need help, no matter whether you regard this as your fault or theirs, because it's pretty obvious to see that the way you regard yourself has been seriously warped by your environment, and also quite clear that you haven't worked through some anger from your childhood, and I think you may need an impartial outside observer to help you work through this. Take that money you were going to burn/give to your mother and spend it on counseling instead. You can tell her you've done so - since this is something she indicated she wished you to do, she'll probably be just as placated by this as she would have if you'd given her the money yourself, and it's likely to be far more productive.

Just make sure you get the counseling from the right source. Like I said, a lot of psychologists (and counselors) can and do say some stupid things - they're human, just like anyone else. Is there a list anywhere here on WP of psychologists that do a good job of dealing with AS people? (Not parents getting kids diagnosed - I'm referring to what people on the spectrum think of their own counseling). If there is, use it to find a good psychologist to go to in your area. (If there isn't, one should be made.) Barring that, age may be a good quick rule to help you find a psychologist who is more likely to be up to date and less likely to hold old-fashioned, stigma inducing views of autism. It may not be completely accurate, but it's better than nothing.

Good luck!

The psychologist you had as a kid is/was a complete and total f***head, and probably contributed a great deal to the problems you have now. "Any other parents would have given him up for adoption long ago" pretty much tells me that that individual should have lost his/her license long before you came on the scene.

See, something I've learned, is that if you view yourself as f**ked-up and broken, then you can't forgive or forget or get over anything that anyone else has ever said or done to you.

Letting things go is a learned skill-- one I'm still working on learning. That thing about autism and neuroplasticity is true-- I think we respond more, and for longer, to the kicks and blows of life. That makes it harder to let go of things, because they make a bigger impression than anyone thought they would or meant for them to. I know I'm 35 and still remember, and base decisions on, the way my cousins treated me when we were little kids. They've forgotten that I was ever the ret*d kick-me dog that had to earn being allowed to hang around by licking their boots; nowadays they act like they think I'm a pillar of humanity and they'd probably think I was making it up if I ever brought up the past.

Something else I have found is that seeing yourself as broken makes it a lot harder to let the nasty things people say and do go. My in-laws are just downright nasty people-- my father-in-law is a bully and my mother-in-law has lived with him for 40 years. They're self-serving and foul. I take the nasty, manipulative things they say to heart, base decisions on them, and end up having a love-hate relationship with them that is full of approval-seeking and resentment; my hubby shrugs the things that come out of their mouths off, goes about his business, and doesn't understand why I can't do the same.

Well, I find that, when I see myself as an OK human being, I have compassion for the nasty attitudes that come out of their mouths and we get on OK. Life goes on. When I see myself as broken, I get upset about it all and hate and resent them (up to and including wishing them horrible, lingering deaths-- which my FIL is getting right now from congestive heart failure, and which my MIL will probably get in the next decade from COPD, and which doesn't make me feel better in the least). Liking yourself, at least a little bit, is pretty much key to resiliency.

Which is something that a therapist that knows his/her AS from a hole in the ground can help you with in relatively short order.

Shoving someone for pushing a consoling hand away-- hey, that's not too cool. My dad slapped me once-- and I did have it coming. I was about 8 or 9; we were standing in the parking lot at Pizza Hut. He corrected my spelling and I called him a f*****g ret*d and spit at him. THAT probably merited a slap-- or anyway it was understandable that he just lost it.

Losing it over your kid-- your autistic kid, at that-- pushing your hand away implies that your dad has some pretty deep issues with rejection. NOT your problem.

Well losing it is a human trait. Everyone has issues-- we try to be aware of and considerate of others' issues, but compensating for and/or fixing them ain't our job. You fix/deal with your own, other people fix/deal with their own, forgiveness is what we try to learn to do when issues rub up against each other and civility fails. It happens. It happens in NT/NT interactions too; someday I hope you can cut yourself the break of forgiving it.

I doubt your Mom hates you. She's not going to forget it, but I don't think she's going to chuck you out of her life over it. If she does-- she's got some issues she needs help with, and that's not your fault.

I think most people wish someone dead at some point in time. I know I have, and I sure hear a lot about it. Most people just only mention it to people who aren't involved, late at night, when they're piss-ass drunk. So you're not unique in that respect.

Looking for validation about your issues with your parents, from your parents, probably isn't the best idea. They are not equipped to give it, because they have their own issues with raising you and how they parented (everybody screws it up at some point-- I mean think, nobody can be perfect for 18 years straight, not even an NT). I think every parent ends up with issues about how they raised their kids-- I know my NT grandma talks to me often about regrets and worries that she carries to this day over raising her girls (she's 88; my aunt is in her early 60s and my mom would be 59 in November if she were living).

Find a decent therapist you can talk to about the nasty emotions you're still carrying. Having them does not make you a sick freak-- acting on them might, but having them is human. Why do you talk to a therapist if having them is human?? Because you shouldn't have to lug them around, resolving them by talking to someone is also human, and sometimes it's just faster, easier, and less messy to talk to an objective third party.

I left home at 17. things weren't great for me either. I have a really dysfunctional family too. Mine were alcoholics. My dad was abusive when he drank... i felt like the adult when I should have been the teenager

We fall into some predictable behaviors. When that happens you have a pretty good indication its the autisim talking. Like never getting over something minor, like making a useless (and costly) gesture, like burning money.

Doing better to a large extent is figuring out when its you and when its autism speaking and not listening to the autism. You, or others, may think the autism is you. I do not believe it is. Its the predictable and often illogical result of the brain dysfunction we call autism. Nearly all of us have much that is perfectly fine in our brains and it is with that part we can over-rule the illogical side and be in true control of ourselves. I don't think you have to waste energy fighting all our autistic tendencies. Things like special interests or similiar are harmless and maybe help us relax.

Well, allow me to clarify something...I actually learned of what this psychologist said from a second hand account from one of my mother's diaries. Maybe she was a bit upset at the time of writing it and ended up embellishing it, I don't really know. But either way, that still shook me to the core. I really liked him, and I thought he liked me.

Fluttershy11