Do I have to pretend?

Post Reply New Topic

I am being told (again) that most people observe other people for weakness and then try to climb over others they see as weak.

And that to survive in the world, one has to watch for weakness and see people in terms of strong or weak and be ready to climb over others.

If one doesn't see the world in terms of strength and weakness and a search to dominate others, is it possible to pretend enough to get by without completely exhausting oneself, or is there some way to not have to pretend?

Just refuse to enter that rat race. Few people succeed in this world by domination. I think collective support is vital, but it is unfashionable to celebrate it. Few to none are completely self-made, even if they bluster otherwise.

I always have stayed away from this. I'm being told that most people do it, and that I have to join in.

I really don't want anything to do with it.

You don't have to do anything. On occasion, the fact that you refuse to join in will be to your benefit. Even if that doesn't prove true, it's not worth sacrificing peace of mind for momentary gains.

Do you always hang out with Machiavellians?

Actually this is true in a lot of cases. There are many people who simply like to see how far they can push others. Bizarre I know! But the solution is quite simple. People who test for this do so in the same way, over and over. They test your boundaries. So they do something that most people would find slightly annoying and see how you react. A self-assured NT would call them out on their actions and make it known they are not comfortable with that. They usually do so in a friendly but firm manner. The offender knows not to push the boundary again. If you are non-confrontational and let it slide they will push the boundary further, doing something that is really quite rude and see how you react. Once they know they can outright violate your rights and you'll only shy away from them then they will go to town.

People with AS have a logic that a lot of other people don't possess. It's this.

I will respect your boundaries and rights as a matter of course and I'll expect that you will do the same for me. After all it's only fair and civil.

But NT thinking is more like this.

I will learn where your boundaries are by testing you first and whatever you don't defend is fair game. Afterall you're the one telling me how to treat you.

You don't have to pretend, but you do need to know how to defend your boundaries when they are tested so that people do not automatically take away your personal space and authority. You also have to learn how to do this in a way that sounds friendly, non-confrontational yet firm. Here's an example.

When dealing with passive aggressives.

Them.. Do you want me to...insert action?
What they expect you to say....Oh no. It's okay I'll do it.
How to push back. Yes please, that would be great.

Passive aggressives will try and control and dominate you by appearing to be helpful. They are expecting you to feel guilty because something needs doing and you haven't jumped on it. But when you just accept their offer of help they are really powerless. They put it out there, and now you are taking them up on it. End of story.

I don't believe you must be aggressive/domineering to get on. You do have to try and stick up for yourself however and not let others dominate you however or it will become an impediment.

Echolalia that's exactly how it seems. And it's a vast foreign world I never saw before that I can't stand looking at so I hope MjMajorMajor and ToySoldier that you're both right, maybe it's possible to stay outside and not join in. But how?

My therapist told me this week stuff I didn't like and do not understand about acting, not his words, so people won't think I'm weak because apparently people usually look for anything they can label weakness and jump to judge and avoid and hurt whoever seems weak.....I don't understand that at all. He seemed almost surprised I don't see that or live that way, and that's frightening me too because he sees a lot of people with AS and I know we're all different.....but still.

I don't think I have it in me to pretend like this and if I understood right (and I don't know if I did) the acting to manage other people is something I'd have to do with everyone. I mean, if that's true, I guess no wonder I don't have any friends as I don't understand or so that. I thought If I was friends with someone, I could relax and be myself. Consider their preferences and try to be thoughtful, but that being friends I thought meant not having to manage the other person or pretend very much.

I guess I just really don't understand and don't want to understand about manipulating and managing people. But apparently I need to learn. And I just don't want to go there....

I really don't understand why you feel you have to. Is it to fit in? To be successful? Most people are told since childhood that "just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean you should". Maybe I'm just not understand your problem well.

I've had a lot of difficulty with how others treat me and the only way my therapist can suggest to improve the things that upset me is to manage interactions with others in a more controlled and controlling manner. So I am posting hoping maybe there's some other way. It's to minimize or avoid being mistreated and played with like I'm a toy and generally disregarded by others who see me as too naive to be for real. I think.

Is it in general, or are certain people problematic? I've always felt that if we don't allow others to treat us disrespectfully, they usually don't. It's not about weakness or dominance, but just having a backbone. I've learned to hold my tongue and compromise more when I can, and when people are downright nasty then f--- em.

It's hard for me to notice when people are starting to push so I think they get the idea they can do whatever and then they're surprised later when I object and I am surprised what they do. And I think they think they gave enough clues I'd have politely told them to stop, maybe indirectly. Or just ignored them if I didn't like what they were saying. That's the game I'm missing I'm supposed to learn or at least pretend at. But I don't see it a lot so I'd have to really be very focused on looking for manipulation and managing others to compensate For what isn't intuitive I guess is how it seems. And I can't or at least I don't want to. I'm sorry for whining. Just sad right now. Thank you for responding.

Sometimes I don't see it either until its too late, I know I'm missing something from the interaction, but in the moment I'm not sure what it is. I became quite anxious about this, misconstrued others real intent and essentially alienated genuine people. I expect people to do this now, and take a 'wait and see' attitude, I think I have more negative experiences this way, but I prefer it to creating negative experiences and sometimes I learn from it. A balance between the two would be nice. I don't have any suggestions, but I related to what you described.

I'm glad you can relate Amity. It's hard too that at the beginning, the hint of criticism when someone is trying to cue me to stop talking or remember to say something that seems friendly and that I've learned to try to catch and be responsive to seems no different than the jockeying for power/holding me under/gaslighting thing. Only I don't think they're the same, and don't want to be negative when people don't have bad intentions but want me to shift a bit how I'm acting

Whenever I get this tired of NT people I threaten to live in a cave with my cats (sometimes I decide to allow dogs as well) and never come out.

There are a limited number of things that one needs to do in order to survive, have food, shelter, water, enough social interaction to keep from going insane, medical care. I would add books, and high speed internet for myself, if not for you. So with that in mind, the question is then can you lead a life that you want to lead without having to enter this rat race mentality? I don't know what kind of life you want, I think for some lives it's very doable, others not so much. I've heard about this a lot in pre-med students for example, but I almost never see it on the farm where I work.

As to how to understand the mentality, I found that learning about horse behavior made this kind of thing make sense to me. With people, I generally let people push pretty far, I'm pretty easy going, but if they go to far I do have a tendency to "snap." Because I'm known for being so easy going when I do get angry people tend to pay better attention because they don't see it coming.

I hope some of that made sense

The kind of people you want to surround yourself with care not about things like dominance, submissiveness, strength and weakness. Your true friends will recognize your weaknesses, but accept them and try to help you grow from them. Anyone you meet in your life who sees your weaknesses and makes an effort to exploit them for their own selfish gain is a waste of time and needs to be removed from your life.

Also, never be that person, either. You may notice what you think is weakness in someone, never look at them as inferior for it. It's incredibly selfish.