getting over a relationship, self-definition problems

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Dear WP,

I'm 31 years old and I live in a small german city. I was in a relationship with an ASD woman frm the age of 19 to 29, but after I finished studying at 26, I was very depressed as I couldn't manage to make my way into an adult worklife, i.e. I couldn't find a place where I would have wanted to work. So, my then girlfriend encouraged me to do an MA abroad and find work in the UK. So I did, I went to some prestigious high-brow college in the UK, and it was a complete fish outta water situation. I managed to stetch myself, furhter than was healthy, until I broke form the stress and went into clinical depression, combined with breaking up all healthy human relationships and indulging in the UK's favourite parstime: weekday drinking.
I found myself a new girlfriedn, as NT as they come, and obviously this relationship quickly failed, but I don't think I was even trying to have a healthy relationship at that point. I went on medication, but I didn't react well to SSRI. Not well at all. (serotonin syndrome- apparently I don't lack serotonin, so a re-uptake inhibitor will lead to toxic levels. so much for the serotonin-deficiency hypothesis of depression) I refused to take a second pill.
I finished my MA, and treid to enter the workforce in the UK, but as you all might know, the UK has become a rather unpleasant place to be after the financial crisis, and while I was hemorrhaging my savings, working and still feeling poorer than I ever felt before, my physical health followed my mental health and ... left.
So I went back to germany, to stay with my brother and his family for a while to get my physical health sorted out. It took almost a year in which I had repeated flares of acute pancreatitis until I got the right medication. That was last summer. I'm still not back to normal, but most days I get by without rolling into a ball in pain, waiting to die.

Anyway. My exgirlfirend in the meantime found herself a new partner- who also happoened to be my friend from childhood. I have virtually no happy memories of myself that don't feature either him or her, and now they're all a bit tainted and I'd like to avoid them.
The circle of friends I.. we... once had basically closed around them, he has replaced me and I have no function for my old friends anymore. They feel awkward around me and I feel awkward around them.
However, this went on for almost a year without my knowing or understanding any of it, until my ex girlfriend mustered up the courage to tell me what was going on, and then, and only then, my former friend just broke off all contact and hasn't spoken to me since. Just like that. Didn't feel like he needed to ask my permission or whatever the Bro-code would have prescribed regarding dating a friend's ex-girlfriend while he's going through psychotic breakdown. Thought he could stay my friend until someone told me he was sleeping with my ex, and then vanished from my life without notice.
I understand that she has moved on, that he makes her happy, and really, I miss him as much as her. But I also dream of pushing him in front of a train at night. Being this torn doesn't aid in rebuilding myself.


I have found some freelance work now, with the lowered expectations one develops passing his 30th birthday, and I found a very affordable, and actually nice flat in my hometown.
Problem is, I only leave my flat for shopping purposes, as there is nothing out there that I would like to ... be at.
I can't integrate my memories of myself in the UK into my current self-definition, - I think that's what PTSD means- and I can't go back to my former self, which was largely, as all roles are, defined by my friends and spouse.
It's really amazing, - I can't understand my own actions from that period. There's jsut a junk of memories of which I know they're mine, but they don't feel like it. But the actions committed in these memories royally screwed up everything. It's Tyler Durden-y, with far less soap.
The only working role I have left to play is the one defined by my family, which was a role I never enjoyed.
Admittedly, the 'why can't you be like the other children/ stop making such a fuss or I'll smack you' turned into quiet disapproval over time, - still not a version of me that I want to be.

so here I am, without a role to play in life, without an audience, considering alcoholism, if only I actually enjoyed drinking.
I'm working, and sometimes enjoying it, earning enough money to live here, but not elsewhere, wondering what to do with the rest of my life, smoking like a research monkey, (probably I have dopamine issues, not serotonin...) in lieu of anything else to do. I'm avoiding most things I used to enjoy, as the memories of enjoying them are all linked t either my ex girlfriend or my former friend, and I can't seem to manage to not drift off into self-pity whenever I start doing anything I used to enjoy. You all know how important special interests are to Aspies- but what to do when you once had people to share them with,.....

my ex girlfriend came by the other day to drop off some books she still has had, and mentioned that she was going to move in with my former friend, quite soon, and quite near to where I live. I'm bound to run into them at some point, even if I only leave the house for groceries. After telling me this she had a nervous breakdown on my couch, and told me she can't imagine me and her as a couple again.
I unravelled, following that- and much to my own surprise, as I had been quite numb towards it all for the past months.

I'm not even sure what to ask of you, WP. Proably just some sort of acknowledgement of this mess.

Heartbreaking story.

I'm glad you still find some happiness in your work. You sound like a good person. I hope you do okay.

maybe try some of your old interests a bit at a time, not enough to be overwhelming, but enough to start to get comfortable doing them alone. or find a class or group where folks have your interests. new friends can be made.

sorry all of this happened. glad your health has improved.

Hey shlaifu,
I'm going through a less severe version of this (not leaving the house, so no degree/work and have a different addiction)... Most important thing is letting go of the addiction because it blocks out many things, like healthy relationships. After a week or so you feel better for a while, but real equilibrium in the brain comes after half a year... so gotta be strong. With some research (how the addiction works) and the right mindset (how to occupy your time; what to do when the cravings are strong; a mantra-image you can use to block your thoughts with; thinking healthily...) I'm sure you can do it.
Wishing you well!

^^^ thanks, I'm not sure what addiction you're referring to right now... nicotine? I mean,... I managed to not smoke for almost 2 years, but the craving never went away, and it was the most horrific time I ever had (stevia-sweetend extremely sweet indian spice tea works wonders when the craving is really acute; but it won't mask your depression as nicotine does). I consciously decided to try smoking again, as less cancerogenic anti-depressants seemed to have a bit of an acutely toxic effect on me. I tried vaping for a while, but it didn't do the trick. I'm not so much nicotine-dependent, as I'm tobacco-dependent, i.e. MAO-inhibitors and nicotine, I guess. MAO-inhibitors, in larger doses than tobacco, are old-school antidepressants and come with their own set of dangers and side effects if taken in clinically significant amounts.

I'm currently not trying to quit smoking, I think I have different problems.
Like, getting out of bed before noon when I don't have to be available for phone calls or emails.

My father came by for a visit for an hour or so last week, and tried to engage me in small talk, which didn't go well. He asked me what was going on in the cultural life of the city I live in. I didn't know- how would I, I haven't left the house for anything but groceries in a month or so- .... my father's quite desperately ignoring my mental state and ASD and what comes with it, I guess ever since I was 5. My mother did so too, but she died 14 years ago. My father's new partner is a very sensitive -but sadly not very smart- person and once had a long conversation with me. She's a homeopath, and figured I was being self-destructive and needed help. Problem was, she decided I was having a sulphur constitution, and gave me sugar pills.
btw.: the 'sulphur constitution' describes lactose intolerant aspies surprisingly well. And at least, sugar pills do less damage than miracle salts.

Oh, dude, that sucks. I've had similar experience finding myself after losing a special person associated with so much of my life. One day, he was there. I went to sleep...woke up the next day to find him gone, and haven't heard from him since. He had his own awful issues, still does from what connected friends tell me sometimes, so I couldn't bring myself to feel angry at him. But he happened to be the reason why I was able to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life, and every single person I knew at the time except my family was somehow connected to him.

This loss nearly destroyed my ability to engage what I most love, puzzles and systems and generally reveling in any kind of intellectual challenge. This also, for a time, completely destroyed my ability to trust anyone, such as embracing new friends who might also wind up hurting me. Talking to existing friends was hard too because they ALL felt a pressing obligation to tell me every single thing they knew about what he was doing, including their own theories and worries, despite my begging them to withhold that information. Even when they respected my wishes, it was hard for me to engage them in normal conversation since I was still so upset and felt like at least knowing something might give me some kind of calm.

This initial mental spinning in place and depression lasted for a few months. I ended up needing medication to help me sleep. I had needed medication all along for major depression and PTSD, but this was the breaking point. He was also the first and only person to that point who had ever made me feel completely safe in an...aspie way.

Moving to another city helped greatly. That had been in the plans, anyway, but happened a month or so faster because both I and the friend I was moving in with agreed staying where I was in that state of mind might literally kill me.

In my new home, I was still depressed, spinning a little, and ... confused. I wasn't sure who I was without this major relationship with all its context and connections. I also felt a bit wrong trying to pursue my dream. Like maybe it wasn't mine anymore, I wasn't welcome there in that world. The idea of trying to do that without him felt ridiculous and impossible.

What snapped me out of the spinny haze was realizing every single thing I tried to do inevitably led back to the thing I was trying so hard to avoid... because it was me. Always had been. Well before I knew that other person existed. I challenged myself to get there under my own power. Now I'm actively getting there!

But the point between spinning-depression and realizing I could pursue my dream after all took about a year. A year filled with alternating attempts at sleeping everything away and throwing myself into unrelated (or so I thought) projects and interests. I had to let my mind air out, as it were. Things had been hard all my life, especially growing up, and were finally beginning to settle down before this major loss happened. So I needed to stop, spin, sob, and slowly reorient into something still-me but stronger. That time was unfortunately necessary and in retrospect allowed me to heal not only that wound but many that had occurred long before it.

Having my life turned upside down one final, shattering time might have saved it. I learned all the things I thought were tied up with other people were mine because I loved those things and made them mine. I found out who I could trust; I lost a few dear friends during that time, one because she turned on me, but the friends I have left I know I can trust with my life. I'm confident in myself because finding myself was the hardest thing I ever had to do and I did it. I'm still recovering from the sheer magnitude and depth of everything, but it's increasingly easier to talk myself through, to rekindle by thinking over all I've done since then. Learning to cherish the memories with that person, the knowledge and impetus he gave which leaving couldn't take away; learning to accept the awful things I endured, both losing him and living through various forms of trauma before him, and the things they showed me...including the fact I'm still here; learning that I'm the only variable I can control, so while other people and influences can give me wonderful experiences and opportunities, they're only mine and worthwhile if I throw all of myself into them and willing to take the associated risk of loss. Losing something, or someone, doesn't mean I have to lose myself too. I don't have to give up things I love because the thing that inspired or helped me see that love goes away.

This absolutely sucks. No question. Especially for an aspie since we have a harder time than most defining and expressing ourselves in the first place. But I think what helped me in large part was being aspie, that strong need to find an obsessive focus and follow all possible branches of it.

All the effort you've put in throughout your life to follow interests and education is still there, still yours. Painful associations do weaken over time. I couldn't look at a few of my books without sobbing for...six months...after losing that person, but now they're in a prominent place on my shelf and I happily show them to friends who find such things interesting. It's hard to imagine how I ever could have put them away.

My advice, perhaps simplistic but sincere, is to give yourself a break and slowly try to reclaim what you've lost. At least so far as you can. You can't get the girl back, and it sounds like your friends deserve a sharp pinch for being so insensitive to you, but the interests and other aspects of your life that were connected, perhaps those can be yours again in time. Yes, it sucks, but it's worth the pain to reclaim yourself and find out if you can build on that to become more yourself.

Also, mental illness of any kind can distort perception. Especially emotions as they impact perception. SSRIs were nasty for me, too. An older tricyclic ended up helping, with minimal side-effects. Finding the right medication can take a while. Definitely worth the trial and error, though. So sorting out your literal brain might be a good place to start. I'm sorry your father has that attitude about AS and illness generally. PTSD pretty much guarantees difficulty integrating past and present experiences, going into depression spirals, hypersensitivity to anything associated with a painful experience...generally PTSD amplifies and distorts. Medication really does help, even if it's just targeted at treating the associated depression. Better doctors will prescribe off-label to best target symptoms. I had to go through several before I found a doctor who could help me, someone not overconcerned with a mere list of symptoms that "should" respond to this or that pill because the manufacturer said so.

This does get easier. Maybe right now all you can is talk to people about what's going on. That's okay. The worst thing you can do is isolate yourself. So long as you have at least someone to talk to, on or offline, you've already overcome one of the most difficult obstacles to getting better.

Thanks, CanTartlySpy.

What scares me is how people when they tell me about similar experiences and how they overcame them refer to the times it took them in months. I guess one could express my misery in a matter of months, but usually, at some point, you start counting years. 3. almost. since I went mad. 2 since I tried to come back, without success so far.

I know that my interests are mine, but it hurts. Those books- I still got mine in a box under my desk. Most of them. Since almost all of them would qualify for the box, but my desk is not big enough to hide them all under it.
I want to move, but I don't know where to. When I came back from the UK, I was going to sort my health out and move in with my friend, who'd invited me to stay- and forgot to mention that he was in a relationship with my ex-girlfriend for over half a year at that point. When she told me, another six months later, it felt like the floorboards were being pulled awawy under where I was lying, after the rug had been pulled out. The inflamed pancreas was probably more like a collapsing building in that metaphor- but it seems, at least the rubble has been cleared off me rather quickly through more tests and MRI scans and such.

I just feel like I'm too old to start figuring out a new life. I spent my twenties with her, and now I'm in my thirties, and while I sometimes like my job, it's nowhere near a career for the next 30-40 years. I'm Aspie-good at something I probably can't live off for the next 40 years and I'm scared of having to start over again, basically figuring things out from the age of 15 onwards. I feel sooo inferior to everyone who hasn't tried anything and now lives in the suburbs with their second child coming along.
The friends I have left are all married, most of them have children. Almost all of them are married to teachers, and I hate that. I have real trouble with people who went to school, and after school decided "that was just soo great, I'll stay in school forever- also, I already know everything!". And now I feel inferior to that. ....

so, my Aspie (self-defence)thoughts and my feelings are out of alignment, and I'm having a hard time adjusting to that. I wish I had chosen a different career path, one which would have been... I don't know. Not that tightly restricted to my personal interests, but while I was with her, things made sense.
Again, I'm feeling too old.. I'm beyond the age where employers or dating-websites allow large holes in your CV, in which you needed to find yourself.
Let alone that dating-websites aren't a thing here, yet.

Well, this whole thing is scary.

I'm referring to only part of my experience when I count in months to a year. The part between losing my soulmate and getting myself back on track with education.

I spent the first nineteen years of my life living in constant physical and emotional abuse under my mother. She ground me down every way she could and was masterful at manipulating others to unwittingly reinforce the destructive messages to me.

I spent another four or five years trying in vain to care for someone who simply would not accept help despite acting abusively themselves with constant guilt-trips, criticism, shaming, and threats.

I was forced after that through economic circumstances to return to the home where I had been abused. My mother tried harder than ever to get into my head, livid that she couldn't influence me like before; but those two years were still harrowing and left permanent scars.

There was, of course, the experience I mentioned at length.

After moving out of there, grief from the loss wasn't my only problem. I also had major health issues to sort out that had been neglected for years or never dealt with in the first place.

This, right here, is the first time in my entire life things have been any kind of calm and productive.

So, though my challenges and history are different from yours, I can say truthfully that I understand the fatigue and frustration. Yes, it hurts. Until the day I die, some of what I experienced will still hurt.

I don't know how to tell you to accept yourself or find a way to live around the challenges you face. That's such a personal thing to sort out! But it is doable. Some of my friends are older than me - forties - just returning to school. One is going to college for the first time in his life.

Starting late, or rebuilding late, is hard. It's unfair. It's brutally painful to see others with everything all figured out, neatly in place, as you struggle with the most basic components of daily existence. But you can do that, or you can do nothing. For me, I asked myself which one sucked less. I went with doing something even though I was starting late and had to deal with seeing everyone else with it all figured out. Then at least I can get something out of life.

I don't know how education and careers work in Germany. Here in the US, finding work with large gaps in one's CV and education is hard, too. In fact, many employers here won't even interview a person unless they are currently employed! They do nasty stuff like check credit history, too. Add that to the very slow economic recovery that many argue hasn't actually started yet. And it's hard to find funding to go to school. Yeah, it's hard.

I think our cultures are similar in that men in particular define themselves and are defined by others as what we do for a living. But does that have to be the sole defining factor of a life? I don't think it does. You can use your existing skills to earn money, even if you don't adore your work. Find pleasure and fulfillment in your personal life. Maybe find a way to help other people?

Finding what you want to do may be the hardest part of all. It's hard to let go of previous attachments and dreams. Especially to the context created by your former relationship and all those friends around it. Nothing will ease that pain but continued experience, and to some extent it'll always hurt.

Sometimes when I see a particularly weathered bit of bronze or hear a certain song, I'm brought to my knees sobbing. I feel that loss all over again. Sometimes, it's so bad I can't breathe. But this is happening less and less as time goes on. The fits are shorter. Increasingly, these are turning to sad fondness, which is much easier to endure.

Everyone takes their own amount of time to move on. Don't judge your progress or lack thereof by how others handle similar situations. Especially where health is involved. I have a few physical disabilities that have made it harder for me to fight since they mean I can't engage all the resources most in my position otherwise would be able to take advantage of. And it has taken me a long, LONG time to accept these limitations and find ways around them. I'm still working to find ways around some of them.

My friend - we still share a home - is currently helping her boyfriend who just turned forty in starting a new career path and rearranging his life substantially. He's had a rough time of things, too. It's hard to ignore what society and family say, all the milestones and rules insisted upon, but "starting over" really is not as rare as people think and there is no shame in it! The guy in question is brilliant, kind, and a complete joy to be around. He did nothing wrong. He just, like us, had some really awful things happen that forced a major shift in perspective.

I was serious about sorting out your literal brain. I fought really hard against medication for a while, especially when the first few did such awful things. But mental illness has a physical basis that is treatable, or is at least substantially eased with chemical aid. Not all medications have nasty side-effects. Neurochemistry is surprisingly...individual, the more scientists investigate. So the process is complicated and frustrating, but most people are able to find one that works. You know what doesn't work, so that gives doctors a place to start. Sorting that out may free up energy you can't see right now is there to be freed.

I was very surprised at how much clearer things got once I had the right treatment. I was able to consider options I hadn't seen before because the nasty depression wasn't there clouding my judgment so fiercely. Talk therapy has really helped, too. Some of that was about actively changing my behavior and how I think about life problems. Again, I was surprised how much of a difference this made; I'd fought against the idea for years.

Focusing on the past, that way lies madness. The past was awful and left awful marks and aftershocks still felt. But all we have is today. I know that sounds trite, believe me... But it's true. Take it one day at a time. For awhile, I had to take it hours at a time.

Healing is a lifelong process, and in the case of longterm trauma sometimes that healing means completely restructuring basic definitions like what it means to be productive and which aspect of life matters most in a concept of self.

All I can really say is that you're not alone. You're also not weak or worthless. You're having a very hard time for very understandable reasons that deserve compassion and respect. Including from yourself.

Random idea: you speak English and German, right? Could you try switching languages and contexts? Like get some of thsoe books in the opposite language and try following a familiar interest that way too? That sort of helped me. I got stuck in Italian for a while with reading fiction, and talking to my aunt...and the language shift actually helped clear my head. A little break from an otherwise painful reality, but one where I was still communicating and gaining new contexts.