I keep having irrational thoughts

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I keep comparing myself to other people and some of it doesn't even make sense. Here's an example. Someone at work bought an $80 jacket. I remember mentally kicking myself and thinking "If only I wasn't so bad with money I could afford to have an $80 jacket". This went on in my head for a while until I remembered I've got a $200 jacket.

It just seems like when I compare myself to other people I have this subconscious bias against myself. Like a double standard. If someone achieves something I think it's a real achievement and I envy them for it but if I achieve the same thing I feel like it doesn't count.

I feel really bad when I hear people talk about their lives because somehow I feel like I don't have a life. I feel even worse when I hear people talk about their youth (teens or early 20s) or when I hear people who are in that age group because at that age I had even less of a life than I do now. When I see high school students I imagine them working diligently to get good grades. When I was that age I got terrible grades.

Even worse when it's people aged 18 to 22. They talk about what they're doing in uni and I keep having this irrational obsession about how I never went and I missed vitally important coming of age ritual. Like when they were expanding their horizons both culturally and academically, I was sitting in my room. When they were going to parties and hooking up with each other, I was sitting in my room. If I meet some 18 year old engineering student I just know that he's doing stuff I couldn't do at my current age of 28 and he's younger than me. He's smarter than me and has a much better work ethic than me and he's younger than me. At 18 years old he's more mature than I am at 28 years old. And just the fact that they let him into university proves that he did well in all the same high school subjects that I was too stupid to pass. And now in uni studies stuff way above my level of comprehension and handles a massive study load that would make me go giddy from exhaustion and organizing himself in ways I never could. If I find out he also holds a job while dealing with class and assignments and cramming than it's like comparing Homer Simpson to Superman. I'm Homer, he's Superman.

But I probably don't need university. I already have a job. So is uni only to be used to get your desired job or is it a bildungsroman? I feel like I missed out on the coming of age story and therefor I am not an adult. I can't deal with a high work load so I'm not an adult. I can't understand algebra and calculus so I'm not an adult. I can't self-organize or self-motivate or manage my time properly so I'm not an adult. I can't save my money without spending it all so I'm not an adult. That's what goes on in my head. But if I don't need uni then worrying about it is irrational, right?

I have a relatively high income yet I can't buy stuff due to poor money management. I got into financial trouble when I moved into a new apartment, which required me to pay 2 weeks rent + 6 weeks rent for the downpayment + 2 weeks rent on the other place because they overlapped for 2 weeks. So that means in a 2 week period I paid 10 weeks rent. That caused problems. Maybe the trouble is that most of my diet is fast food. Healthy but expensive. At the moment I'm trying this low carb diet which makes it even more expensive because I can't just pack a sandwich or a frozen lasagna for lunch. Instead I have to buy a breadless burrito or sashimi. I don't even know if the low carb diet really works. I lost a bit of weight but I think that was more from fasting than low carb.

The trouble is I got robbed in my old place (twice) which meant after I moved I had no stuff and no money to buy new stuff. If I had no money but still had all my old stuff then I wouldn't feel so bad because instead needing new stuff I could use my old stuff. So now everyone else is buying great stuff and I'm trying to pay of a credit card I charged 10 weeks rent too (not to mention used to buy stuff for various girls I was either dating or trying to date).

But I still have the irrational double standard against myself. A young woman at work bought a new car (paid in full, no car loan). I thought "If only I wasn't bad with my money I could do that" but if I had actually bought the same new car I would think "I just waisted a lot of money on that car, this proves I'm bad with money". Maybe it would be. I bought a car that cost 10% as much and still works in the same basic way. I've own it for 2 years and next month I'm selling it because having no car is even cheaper than having a used car.

But I just feel like other people are not only earning more money than me but they never spend it, they just save all of it. and then I kick myself for my inability to save. Arguably buying a new car is not saving because she just spent it on a car. If she was saving that money she'd still have it. Arguably the young man who recently bought that house is in more debt that I am. I have to pay of my credit card but he has a whole mortgage to pay off. A young woman at work bought a similar house as an investment property. Now her tenants are paying her mortgage for her. So was the young man as smart as he thinks or did the young woman have the better idea? I couldn't use her plan because I can't stand being around my parents so I can't live with them.

I know that rationally buying a house or buying other investments is really just a way to have more money in the future. It's really just a way to make your dollars now work twice as hard later. Like if I spend my money later it could buy twice as much as spending it now. Sort of like if you save up your potions in Golden Axe, using 6 potions at once caused 12 times as much damage on the boss. I know that rationally but in my irrational mind I feel like I'm expected to live like a spartan for my whole live and keep on saving until I die, never having spent any of it.

I think the problem is two fold. 1, I didn't get a decent paying job until I was 27 and most of the people at work got a job like that in their early 20s or late teens. 2, they lived at home for a years after they got such a job. If I got the same job when I was younger and/or I liked living at home I could save more efficiently to buy houses or other investments. But I'm in my late 20s and I hate my parents so I must pay rent.

It's kind of irrational that I hate my parents. I don't even know why because they haven't done anything wrong. Mum says she misses me. I think she wants me to come and see her some time. It's just that being around her makes me feel immature. And she's poor so she reminds me of when I was poor. She never went to university and she reminds me that I didn't either. Is it irrational for me to try and avoid her? Anyway I can't move back in with her because I just bought a new lounge suit and I wouldn't have anywhere to put it in her house. Is that irrational?

The first time I moved out things didn't work out so I moved back in with her for a year. This made me even more depressed than I am currently. I don't know if it was caused by living with her or if it just coincidentally happened at the same time. Maybe in some ways I was better off living with free rent and free pay TV and having her cooking my meals and serving them to me.

Anyway how can I stop thinking irrational thoughts?

By continuing to reality-test yourself, and believing in the results.

Yeah, I should do that.

Just this morning I was thinking about this girl I'm going on a lunch date with today and thinking "she doesn't count because I met her on a dating site" but now that I think of it, she does count. Meeting her from a dating site doesn't make her not count.

"I keep comparing myself to other people and some of it doesn't even make sense."

That's normal.

"...if I achieve the same thing I feel like it doesn't count."

Ok. That isn't typical. Why might this be?

"I feel really bad when I hear people talk about their lives because somehow I feel like I don't have a life."

Agreed,

"Even worse when it's people aged 18 to 22. They talk about what they're doing in uni and I keep having this irrational obsession about how I never went and I missed vitally important coming of age ritual. Like when they were expanding their horizons both culturally and academically, I was sitting in my room."

I am going through this right effin' now. At least you're past that age and have a secure job.

To them you very well may be the 'wiser older guy who has a job' while they're struggling to find work even with their precious, useless $200,000 piece of paper.

"When they were going to parties and hooking up with each other, I was sitting in my room."

Story of my life. Unwanted solitude.

"If I meet some 18 year old engineering student I just know that he's doing stuff I couldn't do at my current age of 28 and he's younger than me. He's smarter than me and has a much better work ethic than me and he's younger than me. At 18 years old he's more mature than I am at 28 years old. And just the fact that they let him into university proves that he did well in all the same high school subjects that I was too stupid to pass. And now in uni studies stuff way above my level of comprehension and handles a massive study load that would make me go giddy from exhaustion and organizing himself in ways I never could. If I find out he also holds a job while dealing with class and assignments and cramming than it's like comparing Homer Simpson to Superman. I'm Homer, he's Superman."

Same thing with me for the time being.

Especially here in Australia it seems N.T.'s grow up so damn fast in the rat-race.

Most of my former classmates from high school are ahead of me.

Most of them are already halfway through their learner's or have their full license, I have my learner's but haven't step foot behind the wheel.

Plenty of them already live away from home and most started uni studies immediately after year 12.

This one girl from my high school is 18, sharing an apartment with her brother, full license, studying at university and juggling part-time work. And currently about to explore the U.S. 'for a while'. Wtf???

"So is uni only to be used to get your desired job or is it a bildungsroman?"

Both. So, since you have your desired job, and have managed to have a decent and successful social life without it (e.g. girlfriends, etc.) I'd say ya didn't miss much, and if anything avoided a boatload of debt.

"I feel like I missed out on the coming of age story and therefor I am not an adult."

With such rising university attendance and graduate rates, it is not shameful to feel this way.

I agree and can't stand the fact uni attendance is on the rise, for reasons we already discussed (qualification treadmill, etc.)

Uni is becoming a standard part of U.S., UK and Aussie culture and something of a rite of passage nowadays, so it's normal to feel like a 'loser' for skipping it.

That doesn't mean you are though.

I think what more people need to do is ignore the social and cultural aspects and symbolism university attendance has in our lives - all in all, it's just another form of education and educational institution. It's not some magical, culturally and ethnic diverse, liberty-minded place of freedom and joy and the pinnacle of the young adult enjoyment and experience - it's just a school.

"But if I don't need uni then worrying about it is irrational, right?"

Yes.

"Healthy but expensive."

What? Actual healthy eating, that is homecooked meals of healthy ingredients of your own choosing, is the most expensive and time-consuming of all.

Also, Subway being a healthy thing to eat is overrated. Some of its menu is healthy, but you've got to eat healthy food properly, e.g. even if you eat healthy you have to get a balance of each and every proper nutrient from a variety of sources.

Eating only fruits for example (fruitarian) is actually very unhealthy and causes nutritional deficiencies due to lack of protein, fats, fibre, etc.

"At the moment I'm trying this low carb diet which makes it even more expensive because I can't just pack a sandwich or a frozen lasagna for lunch. Instead I have to buy a breadless burrito or sashimi. I don't even know if the low carb diet really works. I lost a bit of weight but I think that was more from fasting than low carb."

Low carb is useless. I'd rather go high carb. Carbs = good source of energy. Just make sure it's complex carbs and not simple one's like sugar.

It's all about calories, RG. Also known here as kilojoules.

Simply put your maintenance calories is the amount of energy you need from food a day to stay the same weight, a calorie surplus is more than your body needs (resulting in weight gain), and a deficit is less than your body needs.

Just decrease the amount of food your body needs to provide it with fuel/energy for the day (but don't fast or starve yourself = dangerous and can definitely result in muscle loss) or increase activity levels but not food intake.

"The trouble is I got robbed in my old place (twice) which meant after I moved I had no stuff and no money to buy new stuff."

I'm sorry. Stuff like this happens and it's hard because nothing can be done about it to get the stuff back. My step-dad was robbed $10,000 worth of stuff one time from a lock-up garage and another time a safe of his life savings.

If stuff like this happens to me, e.g. money robbed, stuff broken, lost or stolen, etc. I like to reflect on what value it brought to my life and if I truly need it in my life again, or can just find joy in the memories the items brought.

Sometimes losing things can help us question if we really want or need to get it back again - we can only realize this when the stuff is gone, not when we already have it, because if we already have it we can't think of what it would be like otherwise.

It can also help you value the 'simpler things' and not just material objects.

But of course, if you want your stuff back, you want it back - more power to you.

"But I still have the irrational double standard against myself. A young woman at work bought a new car (paid in full, no car loan). I thought "If only I wasn't bad with my money I could do that" but if I had actually bought the same new car I would think "I just waisted a lot of money on that car, this proves I'm bad with money". Maybe it would be. I bought a car that cost 10% as much and still works in the same basic way. I've own it for 2 years and next month I'm selling it because having no car is even cheaper than having a used car."

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense.

You were robbed man, and had that Asian woman hussle you for what, 10 grand? You don't have the money for ferrari's or whatever, you're actually focusing your money on better things i'd say (like a cheap second-hand car or just none at all and using the money for bike/bus/public transportation).

You're also not using the money to fall into massive debt from college.

"But I just feel like other people are not only earning more money than me but they never spend it, they just save all of it. and then I kick myself for my inability to save."

I disagree. It is in my experiences most people live paycheck to paycheck, and typically only make just enough to survive and a tiny bit extra on top of that.

Having just $10-50 after the bills have been payed and (minimal) groceries bought is not a good way to be living life, especially when young.

But most of our youth live this way; they have a cheap second hand car and/or just use bus/bike to get around, live in a cheap dirty one room apartment and live on cheap noodles and coffee and no sleep, their entire groceries consist of a six pack of beer a week and a week's worth of frozen pizza and 2-minute noodles, and yet they still fall into massive debt that f•ck5 them over for most of their adult life.

"I know that rationally buying a house or buying other investments is really just a way to have more money in the future. It's really just a way to make your dollars now work twice as hard later. Like if I spend my money later it could buy twice as much as spending it now. Sort of like if you save up your potions in Golden Axe, using 6 potions at once caused 12 times as much damage on the boss. I know that rationally but in my irrational mind I feel like I'm expected to live like a spartan for my whole live and keep on saving until I die, never having spent any of it."

I believe there's no such thing as wasted money - you use it on what you want to, and even if you regret your decision, you most likely at the time spent it on what you wanted to spend it on.

Money that is used is not wasted, only if you threw your money away or in the bin is it being wasted because it is not being used.

With that said, you haven't wasted any money at all - you've simply made choices with your money you now regret, but how could you have known that if you didn't try?

You've got to think carefully about how you spend and don't blow your cash but don't beat yourself up over past spending habits.

"I think the problem is two fold. 1, I didn't get a decent paying job until I was 27 and most of the people at work got a job like that in their early 20s or late teens. 2, they lived at home for a years after they got such a job. If I got the same job when I was younger and/or I liked living at home I could save more efficiently to buy houses or other investments. But I'm in my late 20s and I hate my parents so I must pay rent."

I always saw buying a house as a much later in life thing. It can be as early or late as you can make it. Honestly, I'm sure financially you'd be far better off if you bought a house at age 55. That's double your life and would mean you're only halfway there.

When it comes to your money and future, take your time, I'd say.

"It's kind of irrational that I hate my parents. I don't even know why because they haven't done anything wrong. Mum says she misses me. I think she wants me to come and see her some time. It's just that being around her makes me feel immature. And she's poor so she reminds me of when I was poor. She never went to university and she reminds me that I didn't either. Is it irrational for me to try and avoid her? Anyway I can't move back in with her because I just bought a new lounge suit and I wouldn't have anywhere to put it in her house. Is that irrational?"

My family is lower-middle class as well so I can feel the same sometimes. I still love my mother though and always will.

It's the others in my family still living-off disability in their mid to late 20's that are bad role models for me and almost make me feel like they're dragging me down with them (they're not on purpose, it's just their satisfaction with mediocrity and not having jobs or careers makes me more comfortable as well - "it doesn't look THAT bad", I'd think).

But yeah, if you wanted to actually live with her again, it'd be a neat idea.

If the lounge suite is the only thing, I'd say put it in storage until you can sell it, or sell it before moving out. Depends if the idea is worth it to you or not.

Kraftiekortie is right.

I got into a lot of self hatred by comparing myself to others. It's hard to stop I know, but keep trying.

I compare myself to other people too, and experience a lot of envy and jealousy because of it. It's not a nice place to be.

@Retrogamer87

You might have OCD. Something that I did when I was younger. The best way to contain intrusive or unwanted thoughts is realizing that the human brain that we have is an extremely complicated organ. More often then not, we think of situations and feedback which may not really correspond to what other may think of us, and what may not even correspond to reality. By realizing that this is the case, being able to withhold intrusive thoughts and feeling and managing them may become possible.

You're ahead of some of your peers, and behind others.

As long as you're independent, you're doing okay in my book.

Just don't get a girlfriend merely because you're lonely.

There's this New Zealand film called "Wilderpeople" or whatever. An adult version of one of the characters in that movie I think you'd get along with fine.

You're right Krafty. I have to learn to separate that rationally negative thoughts from the irrationally negative thoughts. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.

Example of an irrationally negative thought. Someone says their job is incredibly hard and stressful and I feel jealous of them, thinking if I had their job it would make me more tough.

If I had their job in real life it would do me no good.

It's so weird. For a few hours today I felt like I was a terrible lazy immature stupid person who didn't deserve to live and then a few hours later I felt fine about myself.

Having these mood swings every day is very distressing for me.

It happened again this morning. Now I feel fine. I was seeing a psychologist a couple of years ago. Here's the thing, if I go to an appointment when I feel fine, there's nothing to diagnose. Maybe that's why the psychologist didn't diagnose me with any condition or prescribe any kind of treatment.

When I go through one of my depressive episodes, it's strange. I feel like my self-loathing is completely justified rather that see it as a symptom of depression. I think the cause of my self-loathing is that I really am that bad. I feel like I shouldn't get therapy. I feel like I deserve to be depressed. I think negative thoughts like it's a compulsion. Like I'm obliged to think them. Like I can't stop thinking that stuff because I have to think it.

When I try to explain it to people I can't because while I can think that stuff, I can't form it into a rational sounding sentence. Trying to explain it to someone actually helps to dispel it a bit. It's actually quite confusing because it reveals my cognitive dissonance. While I can't quite explain to the other person why I'm the worst person in the world, there's still something in the back of my mind saying it must be true, if only I could explain it.

Then I start to feel a bit better about myself and there's something in the back of my mind saying this is arrogance. Arrogance is bad so I shouldn't do it. Then I feel guilty about being arrogant.

It's like I can't allow myself to feel good about myself when I haven't achieved anything. If someone is proud of having done nothing or thinks they're a decent human being after doing nothing, that is arrogance?

Maybe I have achieved some things but not enough. And if I do something when I'm 25 or 28 that most people achieve when they're 16 or 19, that doesn't count right? At least that's how it seems to me. How arrogant would it be for me to feel proud about achieving something a decade too late.

I keep on wanting to be younger so I can do stuff while being younger. And most people who are 19 or 20 are more mature than me and smarter than me. Or maybe I could be smart too if only I had tried harder in my studies. I didn't put enough effort in because I was lazy. I still am.

I spent most of the weekend reading Orion's Arm and playing Grand Theft Auto. Then I felt very guilty about it because I wasted the whole weekend instead of doing something productive with it. I get so tired but I feel guilty when I spend any waking time resting. I know people say that I need rest but I also know people who function without rest during their waking hours.

For example, there's this girl at work. She's always very tired because she only sleeps for about 5 hours per night. Why? She lives out in the country. She has a long commute. She has to get up early. After work, she spends hours on her ice hockey training. Her weekends are spent playing or coaching roller hockey.

So with a full time job (she actually has a work day 2 hours longer than mine and unlike me she does occasional weekends) and most of her evening taken up by ice hockey and with only 5 hours sleep per night she's dead tired. And she still produces better work at a faster rate than me!

It's maddening than while she's sleep deprived she's better at it than me. I usually sleep 8 hours per night. I don't feel sleepy after I get up in the morning. She says she's tired and wishes she was in bed. But she does better work on 5 hours sleep than I do on 8 hours. And she never rests during her waking time.

Before you tell me I need to rest have you ever known anyone who worked there way through college? Between class time, assignment time, cramming time and their job, they might have something approaching a 16 hour day. If they're lucky the other 8 hours can be spent in bed. Yet these worker/students are still able to sustain their concentration for 16 hours per day. In their lectures and assignments they're still able to comprehend complex material that I couldn't understand even if I was well rested.

My Kung Fu instructor tried to tell me that people can only concentrate for a few hours per day. I don't believe him because it seems like other people are capable of concentrating for 16 or more hours per day and even then they can still understand stuff that's above my level.

I know these people get tired but they keep going without pause. When I get tired I stop. Even in the middle of a task my mind wanders. If only I tried harder to prevent this daydreaming.

I read about this high schooler in China. He studies 16 hours per day and he can still understand his calculus lessons arne his English lessons. Even if I was well rested I've never been able to understand calculus or learn a second language. I read about these South Korean students. Between school and their nightly cram school, they study 20 hours per day and sleep 4 hours per night. They feel very sleepy all day yet they study without pause and understand material that is beyond my comprehension even when I'm well rested. I read about an olympic gymnast in training. High school for 6 hours per day, training for 9 hours per day, homework for 3 hours per day and sleep for 5 hours per night while on a very strict diet and yet she still gets straight As! When I was in school I had zero extracurriculars and was well rested, well fed and yet I got straight Cs. How can someone who's exhausted and sleep deprived be able to concentrate better than me when I'm well rested? The explanation is that my well power is very deficient.

So when people tell me I need rest or recreation, I think of those examples and decide I don't need rest or recreation, it seems like I'm justified in feeling guilty about spending my websites on books and video games.

I know that sleep deprivation is supposed to reduce brain funtion. Could it be that these people regain brain function through sheer willpower?

For a long time I've felt like I have low energy. Maybe it's caused by depression or some other mental condition. Maybe there's some treatment that would give me a lot of mental energy all day.

But what would be the point of getting such treatment when it's already too late for me to achieve stuff at the appropriate age. In spite of my total lack of extra curriculars I had an exhaustion induced nervous breakdown when I was 15. Any treatment to increase my energy level would have been useful then or useful when I dropped out of community college when I was 20 but now it's too late because I'm too old.

Maybe more energy would at least help me get my contract renewed at work but it's too late for me to have a real career.

Maybe I should get some therapy but I keep on coming up with excuses like it's too late or I'm not crazy enough. Last time I couldn't even see a therapist before I convinced a GP that I was actually depressed. This time I might seek another avenue to getting a therapist.

I have bad experiences with therapists. They seem so indifferent and act like there's nothing wrong with me.

I want to improve my work ethic but I keep falling into the trap of thinking in absolutes. Thinking I must work as hard as anyone ever worked in history or else it doesn't count. But that's irrational.

Sometimes I feel very tired even when I haven't done anything and while other people can make themselves work when they're tired, I can't. I try to do stuff or I try to try. It doesn't happen. Then I feel ashamed.

Other times I have a lot of energy, like I'm on an adrenaline rush for no reason but often these periods coincide with times when I don't have any task to do so the energy is wasted.