What do I even say to this person

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A few years ago, the spouse of a friend of mine tried to kill themself. They were reacting to seeing my friend verbally abusing another one of our friends in front of us and my friend's spouse's mother, who was visiting to meet my friend for the first time. My friend's spouse has had a very traumatic life of abuse and bullying, and they made it clear many times that they cannot easily handle emotional negativity. They have had experiences of people not knowing their mental health needs, and they were very upfront about it. My friend's spouse, and those close to them know this, struggles with ptsd, bpd, depression, anxiety, impulse control, add, and constant suicide ideation.

My friend, after their spouse moved in, seemed to suddenly change and displayed an abusive streak that they had not seen before moving in with my friend. (I had also seen my friend's abusive streak, and had been the main target of that abuse for years. I had just internalized that it was okay and I deserved it). This led their spouse to being seriously triggered (in the real sense of the word, not the juvenile slang definition). They felt trapped. Being married to my friend was the only thing that kept them from being homeless. Being married to my friend and getting their health insurance was the only way for them to come close to affording their many physical and mental healthcare needs. They saw how awful my friend was willing to be in front of them, our friends, and even their mother, and they just couldn't bear it. They struggle with impulse control, as I said, so they suddenly tried to fling themself into traffic so they could die. Their mother had to stop them and drag them away from the road until they could calm down (calm being a relative term here).

What was my friend's reaction? My friend brushed it off. My friend ignored it. My friend treated it like they were acting up for attention. My friend accepted no responsibility. Multiple people confronted my friend about it and they were all ignored. My friend never changed their behavior.

This was years ago. My friend's spouse's health, mental and physical, has slowly deteriorated after years living in that kind of environment. Our mutual friends and I have recently redoubled our efforts to come down on my friend so my friend will change and accept consequences.

I recently blew up at my friend for this specific incident, because my friend never expressed any remorse for it, ever. Do you know the reason my friend gave all those years ago for not apologizing? "Suicide is, by definition, self-inflicted." I was furious. I did not know how to respond. How was I supposed to respond? So I just moved on and lied to myself that my friend would see the error of their ways and apologize. When my friend's spouse was hospitalized last fall, I made the foolish assumption that my friend would take the chance to try to make amends, since it was not clear if their spouse would live. But nope. When I learned my friend had still not apologized it shattered what little respect I still had for them.

But as I was saying, I recently blew up at my friend for this, because my friend's behavior continues to get worse and my friend continues to refuse to show any remorse. So I threw her words back in her face, asking her if she still believed that "Suicide is, by definition, self-inflicted". Her response was basically "Yes, and?" I froze up. I was so furious and disgusted. When I asked how my friend could think that, she responded that she is blameless for her spouse trying to kill themself on the grounds that they were already suicidal when they married her.



What do I say to this kind of person? I thought I was friends with a moral person with standards. Someone who cared about others. How can anyone be so heartless? I've struggled with the same constant suicide ideation. If my friend's abuse drove me to try to kill myself too, why should I believe she would feel any remorse or consequences?

I don't have any comment in relation to your topic, but I do like your signature. From Brian Wilson to Thucydides!

I was friends with an elderly couple for over a decade. But then the husband was dying of cancer, and his adult children got more involved with him, knowing he didn't have much time. The wife could not get along with the stepchildren, and left him! I didn't want to cause unnecessary tension, so I pretended to still be on friendly terms with them both; but after he died, I ghosted her, because I was so furious with her for her selfishness. I could not keep up the charade. But also, I was sick of her constant complaining and fault-finding. I don't feel any sense of loss about her at all.

Bump

I'm at a loss here.

Bump again
Even though it feels obnoxious and selfish.
Because I'm desperate and miserable but I don't want to lose this person and I'm getting closer and closer to having a nervous breakdown with each day.

I don't want to sound harsh here, this is a haven thread and I want to treat it as such. That said, the reality here is you might want to seriously consider letting this friendship go. I know you said you don't want to lose this relationship, but what is the cost to you if you keep it? Please, help me out here if I'm misunderstanding, but from where I sit, it reads out to me, like you are trying to hold onto a friendship with someone who is an abusive person not only to their spouse, but to you as well...that this person continues to show zero remorse. What is there to say to someone like that? Without serious help and therapy (and often no change even with it), there will be no change, there will be no sudden light bulb moment that makes them care and understand. What is there to say to someone like that? Nothing. It won't get you anywhere but stressed out. At this point, I don't know what option you have beyond deciding if you can and will continue to have a toxic person in your life or not. If you decide you are willing to maintain the friendship, you should work to accept that this is how they are. You're either okay with it or not. If not, it might be time to walk away. That's what I would do. I've dealt with shi**y people like that before. My life is infinitely better with them gone. It's not easy, but so worth it. My two cents anyway. Hopefully other people will come along with some more ideas for you.

I am sorry you have to deal with this. To say it's hell when people close to you are the ones causing you distress, is an understatement. To watch people you value and hold close behave horribly is hard. I wish I had some easy answer for you, but I don't. I hope you can find some way to take care of you in this.

I'm sorry, I don't know what to say to you to help. I don't know much about you because I haven't seen much recently. But I feel bad ignoring you. Just want you to know I recognize you are struggling.

I feel like your friend has adopted a cold stance when it comes to suicide. Perhaps it is some sort of survival mechanism. People tend to be like this when they have suffered much trauma in their life.

I used to have a “cold stance” about suicide because I had a girlfriend who kept on taking overdoses just for attention.

Unfortunately, she succeeded in overdosing herself fatally a little over 20 years ago. I still feel she was reaching out for attention…..but my “cold stance” disappeared, and I take suicidal ideation more seriously now.

Not saying your friend is “right.” Only laying out a possible motive for his coldness.