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psychedelic
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20 Mar 2008, 2:15 pm

What do you guys think about the following? I don't understand some of it my self. Just concentrate on the gist of it.

Quote:
So, oft it chances in particular men,
That for some vicious mole of nature in them,
As, in their birth--wherein they are not guilty,
Since nature cannot choose his origin--
By the o'ergrowth of some complexion,
Oft breaking down the pales and forts of reason,
Or by some habit that too much o'er-leavens
The form of plausive manners, that these men,
Carrying, I say, the stamp of one defect,
Being nature's livery, or fortune's star,--
Their virtues else--be they as pure as grace,
As infinite as man may undergo--
Shall in the general censure take corruption
From that particular fault: the dram of eale
Doth all the noble substance of a doubt
To his own scandal.


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wsmac
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20 Mar 2008, 4:10 pm

All men are evil by nature just like the women keep saying? :wink:


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MysteryFan3
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20 Mar 2008, 4:28 pm

In spite of all of the good traits people have some can choose to do bad things because of an inborn trait, psychological damage or a bad choice made along the way.

It's a start, but I have the feeling I missed something.


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aaronrey
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23 Mar 2008, 8:52 pm

no matter how great a person is, there is always part of his genetic makeup that forms a part of who he is that he can't control



RainSong
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23 Mar 2008, 9:17 pm

I wrote a paper called God Hates Hamlet... But anyway...

Is this taken from Hamlet or something else?

It falls into the tragic hero/tragic flaw concept, which was used mainly in tragedies, including Hamlet. The basic premise is that someone is born into a high position in life - usually royalty - but they have one flaw that ultimately causes them to lose everything. In Antigone, which was one of the first plays to use this, the new king falls from power because of pride; his belief that he is better than everyone else causes him to make several mistakes, which ultimately leads to the death of his family, the loss of his throne, and (if I remember correctly, although perhaps I don't; it's been awhile since I've read it) the endangerment of his county. He might have been completely perfect otherwise, but that one flaw caused his undoing.

So, pretty much, what it's saying is that sometimes men in power are born with faults in their personality (but they shouldn't be blamed for that, because they didn't choose it), and while they may be swell guys otherwise, that fault is going to lead to their downfall and loss of power. Presumably, that could apply to girls too, but when the tragic hero thing first came around, it was the guys who were mainly ruling (even if only from the sidelines).


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wsmac
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23 Mar 2008, 10:28 pm

RainSong wrote:
Presumably, that could apply to girls too, but when the tragic hero thing first came around, it was the guys who were mainly ruling (even if only from the sidelines).


Thanks for clearing that up... I know stereotypically guys seem to be their own worst enemy even when they haven't a clue :twisted: :wink:

Seriously, that was a nice write up RainSong... I liked it! :D


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psychedelic
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23 Mar 2008, 11:31 pm

I don't think it has anything to do with Hamlet being powerful (he's not) or that he's talking about those in power.


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RainSong
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23 Mar 2008, 11:46 pm

psychedelic wrote:
I don't think it has anything to do with Hamlet being powerful (he's not) or that he's talking about those in power.


Hamlet would have been powerful if he would have acted in a relatively sane manner. He's the Prince of Denmark, a powerful country, the people love him (it's stated several times in the play), and if he had waited until Claudius had died (or, better yet, he had killed him in the first act instead of dancing around in circles), he would have been a ruler of a prosperous country, complete with a beautiful wife. But he didn't; he screwed up instead, and he lost everything.

As for what he's talking about, that's one of those things that can be taken in several ways, and it's always debateable; to each their own and all.

Thanks, wsmac. Years of paying attention in English class tends present itself once in awhile. ;)


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psychedelic
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24 Mar 2008, 1:20 am

Quote:
Hamlet would have been powerful if he would have acted in a relatively sane manner. He's the Prince of Denmark, a powerful country, the people love him (it's stated several times in the play), and if he had waited until Claudius had died (or, better yet, he had killed him in the first act instead of dancing around in circles), he would have been a ruler of a prosperous country, complete with a beautiful wife. But he didn't; he screwed up instead, and he lost everything.

As for what he's talking about, that's one of those things that can be taken in several ways, and it's always debateable; to each their own and all.



I think he's really talking about how sometimes people will judge a person negatively for a conspicuous fault that is beyond that person's control. Everything else about the person is ignored, even if the person in question is otherwise respectable. Frankly that's how I feel sometimes.

Possible faults could be AS (everyone here should be able to relate to this one), homosexuality (at least back in Elizabethan England), OCD (someone in another thread has this, among other things, and is suicidal), etc.


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GoatOnFire
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24 Mar 2008, 1:56 am

wsmac wrote:
All men are evil by nature just like the women keep saying? :wink:


'Tis the other way around. :wink:

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