Australians Only: What does Australia mean to us....

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Typecasting people by their race like this is actually racist. I don't know where you get the idea that most immigrants think that they are above us. That is not true at all and just means that you really haven't spoken to enough of them to think of them as real people who are individuals, just like us... see we don't all judge people on their race like you do.

Also, I know in Melbourne a lot of the Italian-Australians are second and third generation Australians, so really how are they different from the Australians whose parents came over from Ireland or England to settle here, like my grandfather did.


Actually you're right about the internet thing. I speak to people from Europe and America and their speeds are so much better than ours. But it's not too bad and hopefully we can catch up.


I actually agree with you about the nudity thing. It's always seemed stupid to me that nudity is classed as worse than blood and gore. I'm happy for them to keep pornography and actual sexual intercourse images until after 18, but I don't see why tasteful nudity should have an age limit on it.


Actually this attitude is racist. Not all Aboriginals are like this. Here is something for you to think about, a lot of people have this image in mind about Aboriginals, and this actually means that even well-educated ones who want to get a job find it difficult due to discrimination. Also, the Aboriginals were here first. Australians killed many Aboriginals, then forced them into little housing estates, then they DID steal their children. This is something that was wrong and does need to be apologized for. If we remember this and our government apologizes, hopefully it won't happen again. Basically because we have forced them into civilized society, where before us they had a different lifestyle, we have a duty of care to them. Also, I don't see how you can say Aboriginals aren't proper Australians, they were Australians before white people were!



Well actually I do think our schooling systems could be better... and hospitals have huge waiting lists. How can you say that is good? There is room for improvement in both. I know specifically in schools for dealing with differences in people, bringing it back to Aspergers and Autism. Schools don't account for different learning styles.

Last edited by LogicAndJeans on 09 Jan 2008, 12:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sorry... there was a double post somehow.. just deleted this one.

Last edited by LogicAndJeans on 08 Jan 2008, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'd have to agree that Australia does compare well to other countries. I know when I went to Ireland in 2000 I found lots of poor people there. I went to Derry in Northern Ireland and the Catholics live on one side of the river, with the Protestants on the other - some people have never crossed the river. You can get beaten up there just for your religion.

My point in my post wasn't to say that Australians are worse than other countries, more to point out the flaws that we have here... As far as political awareness goes European countries are far better than we are. We are more in line with apathetic Americans in that regard, not seeing that politics actually has an influence over all our futures.

The problems I see with the take pride in your country attitude is that it ignores the flaws and it also encourages competitiveness... the attitude that we have it good here, but that 'those' people from overseas trying to come into our country are not one of us, therefore we don't care if they just rot in their own country, just stay out of ours. It ignores the fact that we are all human, no matter from what country and our emotions are real. Why does it really matter what country you were born in?

Australia has a pretty bad history of sending people back to other countries where there was very good reason not to. Think of the case of the little girl from Thailand who was living with her grandparents in Australia for the last 5 years. Her parents were in prostitution and drugs back in Thailand and that was what she would go into if she went back, but Australia wanted to send her back and it was only making the case public and in the media that stopped her from being sent back. Also if you look at figures a lot of the refugees we send back have disappeared or have been killed. There was real reasons they were refugees and we didn't treat them like humans. The majority of Australians seem to support the way we treat refugees though.

Also, I know in workplaces there is a real sports culture here and a lack of acceptance for people who don't follow it. I'm one of the outcasts in that regard. I think Australia's cultural identity is tied up in the typical crocodile dundee guy, the beach, singlet and thongs and the occa accent. When I went overseas I had people thinking I was English.

i have noticed peoples talking about oz being racist, i thinks that is not entirely trues. there are racist elements but it is not fair to write off the whole country as being racist. if we was 100% racist we would not have selected people like Guy Sebastian and Damien Leith and Casey Donovan as aus idol winners. Melbourne would not have a chinese lord mayor. we would not have a wide variety of foods to choose from.

LogicAndJeans, i think they thought u were english cos u did not fit the cliche image peeps have.

i hate the immigration policy toos. and so do lots of other peeps. they have buggered things up to many times.
i know Italian Australians that are nice peeps. and i know lots of peeps from overseas that are good peoples. my brother married a Japanese woman who is a nice person.
and it is not cool to classify aboriginals as not being proper aussies, after all they were here first. that attitude reminds me of the sad fact that they were listed as fauna on the constitution until the 1960s, where there was a referendum to change it that won by a landslide.

and that nudity thing is pretty lame. and video games for some reason video games are not given the same scale as movies and books. any game that is above a MA rating is banned cos there is no R rating, this is kind of silly cos it gives parents the impression that all games are for kids, that is not true.

anyway we are not perfect in this country that is trues, but we should not write ourselves off.
c

Ok, about the Italians and Aboriginals... I know a lot of Italian-Australians, most of them are very loud mouthed and pleased with themselves. I've been called "skip" on more than one occasion, and I get constant put downs about things I don't even know anything about... like, my country can't make coffee? And on top of that, my legs are too long, my skin is too pale, my hair is too straight and I don't eat enough food. I mean, they're not all like that, I have good friends of other races as well, but there is a big difference. They have their own cliques and they seem to be often partitioned into ghettos.

Aboriginals... well, I don't know about you, but I know the real meaning of the word racism... I don't believe they should be eradicated, I have empathy for them, I have respect for their culture... but I just don't see how we're supposed to mix with them, and I don't believe I should be sorry for something I didn't do. And it's a known fact that most of them live off the dole, and a lot of them sniff petrol and drink. As I said, they should have been left to themselves. Saying that isn't racist.

Last edited by iddqd on 09 Jan 2008, 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dude, let me say just one thing... where does morality come from? It comes from the principal that if you don't do awful things to me, I won't do awful things to you... and I'm supposed to tolerate them acting like their s**t smalls like flowers, because they're Italian? And if I don't, it makes me racist?

No... I think it was just that some of your comments here were probably bordering on racist.

As far as the smell of other people's waste matter is concerned, I don't get that impression from those groups, so either we meet different sub-groups or it's a matter of interpretation.

I've been told on many occasions that I'm naive, so it's possible I'm missing the whole thing but it could also be the other way around.

My wife really disliked British people because of their "snobby" voices. It took a lot of convincing on my part to explain that their accents were normal and it was her interpretation that was at fault.

BTW: My parents ended up moving because their Italian neighbor started to pick fights after about 12 years of peace, so I'm no stranger to the darker side of the culture.

Definition of racism - A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. Now here's your quote: -



You make the assumption that all Aboriginals sit around and drink, sniff petrol and are on the dole firstly. That is a generalized statement based off race, stating because some of one race act like a certain way, then all of them must. That is a racist statement. I know in your second comment, then you changed it to most, trying to make yourself not come off as so racist, but just making the generalized statement is racist.

How would you like to be stereotyped because of how you look and what culture you belong to?

You are doing it again with the Italian-Australians, putting people into little boxes and saying that because some act a certain way, then all must. One thing I do need to point out again is that if someone was BORN in Australia, then they are Australian, so I'm betting that a lot of the Italian-Australians that you think should go back to their own countries are actually Australians.

As for the cliques thing, there are a lot of little groups that are like that. The sports loving groups, the nightclub socialites, the gossipers (people who want to talk about the movie stars and Big Brother etc etc)... There are always going to be groups who exclude you, but that is just how it goes... Society is like that. It doesn't mean that putting people into little boxes because of their race is going to help anything...

I definitely don't think everyone is racist... That's not really what I'm saying. There is just an underlying racism in the culture that I see. I think Queensland is the worst for that and in the country areas. Sometimes it's just a little bit of racism that quite a lot of people are willing to tolerate and then there are the smaller percentage of people who are just plain racist. But the little bit of racism is still not a good thing.

Of course, Aussies aren't all bad. If I thought that I wouldn't still be here... but I dislike the Australian pride statement because it creates an unrealistic expectation of what the culture is like. We have flaws just like other developed countries... But we have our good things too... Like our humour, which comes from the English.

I think I come across as English because I don't have the typical Australian accent, mine is more the refined sort. I like accents, particularly the English one and I always find myself taking on the English accent when I'm speaking to someone with it. It's actually an automatic thing that sometimes I need to stop because it sounds like I'm making fun of the person... So when I was over in the UK and Ireland for my 6 week holiday, I did pick up on the accent. So much so that when I came back home the Australians I spoke to thought I was English.

Last edited by LogicAndJeans on 09 Jan 2008, 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Of course you don't need to tolerate someone being mean to you. But it shouldn't matter what their race is. They are simply a person who is not nice. Saying that Italians are not nice though because of a few people is incorrect... because that means that you will be the horrible person next time thinking that because someone is Italian they are going to be horrible. It comes down to the idea to treat people as individuals... if you don't, you will be acting in an unfair manner to people who you have just decided to place in amongst others without any information on who that particular individual is.

Box jellyfish.

Midnight Oil, INXS, and Hunters & Collectors...

Please PM me if you know of somewhere to get H&C CDs at a decent price. Supplies are limited on this side of the Earth.

I may get to go later this year for work! Woohoo!! !

I live in Oueensland!

come to australia, u might accidently get killed.

a quote from a scared weird little guys song. it was a tourism commission type song they wrote about the animals of this country. it was funny.

What's the unemployment rate again? Less then 5% assessed using a methodology that's known to overestimate, in a country where the Dole provides a comfortable standard of living? What's the most common complaint from employers along the east coast of Australia? 'It's a nightmare to try and find employees.'



Compared to the rest of the first world, our internet is appalling. Compared to most of the SE asian second and third world, our internet isn't very good. National average broadband speeds - check it out sometime - our rating is dreadful. Most commerical broadband in Australia wouldn't meet the minimum standards to be advertised as Broadband in the US - and the Seppo's are whinging that their internet isn't up to international standard. Compared to Japan (the unquestioned world leader) - we're using smoke signals and drums to communicate.



Consider the fact that the Liberals have failed to make use of their budget surpluses time and again, except for doing things that result in inflation (like largely unnecessary tax cuts) and it's hard to make an argument in favour of the economic policies of either side at this point. If Howard/Costello had kept taxes at their previous rates and reinvested in infrastructure services - there's a fairly clear case that more Australians would probably have been better off - though Howard/Costello might have lost the election by a slightly wider margin. It remains to be seen if Labour will actually read some economics text books and act for the greater economic good rather then trying to bribe votes out of the population.

Australia to me means the dream of a fair go and mateship for all. The children of the White Australia policy seem to be doing a pisspoor job of keeping that dream alive - but there's certainly a great history of that dream being realized and plenty of people working to bring that elements of the national identity back to the forefront.

I just wanted to point out that the unemployment rate figures are not correct. You see these days it's a lot harder to stay on unemployment benefits. Also parents are expected to look after their children until age 25, which is ridiculous... but until then your payments go on your parent's income unless your parents sign something to say they have kicked you out. Also that doesn't take into account homeless people, people who are studying and people like me either. I am out of work, but my husband earns more than the Centrelink limit, so I am not on their records.

Employers have themselves to blame for the worker shortage - there are so many demands placed on employees these days and the interviews are really hard. You only have to make a little mistake to not get the job... If someone would just let me go in there and prove that I could work it'd all be fine, but instead they want to ask me all these questions that I am meant to have lies ready for.