This guy pissed me off

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Don't play favorites just because violet_yoshi is a reg. That's the only reason I can imagine you taking this tone, as she is the one who attacked the OP for prejudice where no prejudice was displayed (the OP only talked about how childhood obesity has risen in recent years, which it has, which is due to poor food quality and a sedentary lifestyle). I defended her because she was attacked without good reason, and I gave my own reasoning. Violet_yoshi clearly has the problem. My motivation is only to tell the truth where the truth is not being told.



Seriously? Wow. Is this a representation of this forum? I understand that many people here are victims, but please, don't revel in it...

http://www.nber.org/papers/w12954

The information about BPA and hormones is fairly new. I can reference that if you wish, but a quick google search would probably be better for you. Secondly, calling people prejudice here is a hugely empty claim... I believe you're resting on the special pleading fallacy.



When did I ever imply that I don't accept people that are fat? Please quote me and explain yourself. You are making my point for me: you're imagining prejudice behavior where only facts are being presented. That says an awful lot about your motivations.



That's a pretty big if, considering I never said or implied such a thing. Not only that, but that condition is not the case. I am overweight myself and have many friends that are overweight, and I don't judge them for it, but they don't make up excuses either.



Evidence that I'm a "sizeist"?



Yes, I am so pleased that I have to defend myself from empty claims of prejudice. I am totally getting joy out of this. You are the aggressor here; don't delude yourself. I can rehash the entire conversation if I must.



I do accept myself. I also don't allow "acceptance" to stop me from looking out for my health in the future. I mentioned nothing of a mass media driven and idealized body size. I only mentioned good health, and gave a reason for why many people can't shed pounds. In fact, if you took the time to discuss this issue with me rather than making empty ad hominem attacks, you would realize that a significant cause of obesity is not a lack of self control or laziness, but chemicals and hormones put in the food supply by industry. In such a case, which I have explained (I can quote this for you, if I must), it is not the individuals fault that they are overweight, but it is their responsibility to do something about it. If they don't care about their health, then fine. I never sad I judged them for that. You seem to think I have, so please provide a quote where I did this. Otherwise, you are completely making stuff up.



You are the bully here. You called people prejudice without any grounds. That is bullying.

I was never treated badly daily for being overweight, and I was quite overweight (less so now). The information I've provided is not typical diet information, so the claim you're making is completely fabricated, once again. You are attacking me for bettering my health and giving information to help others do the same. There is nothing prejudice about what I've done. If there is, once again, provide evidence.

The diet information I provided is not for the purposes of losing weight by restricting yourself; it's information that is for the purposes of avoiding toxic chemicals which cause a multitude of health problems. Obesity is just one of them. If you want to be the way you are, I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with you telling people that there's nothing you can do about it, and to say otherwise is to be a bigot.



Isn't the same thing you're doing to me? Wow...

I posted information, and you called me prejudice. That's how this started. How can you possibly delude yourself in to thinking I'm the offender here?



I never said people are wrong for being overweight. I said they're wrong, most of the time, for claiming there is nothing they can do about it. I also claimed it is definitely wrong to say people are prejudice for no good reason.

And, once again, you do nothing but create strawman points. I clearly stated that it is not always the case that it is the individual's fault for being overweight. I did, however, say that in the vast, vast majority of the time, it is a person's responsibility to take care of it. If you don't want to, that's fine. But that's your decision and your responsibility.

There is definitely something funny going on when you call people prejudice based on nothing, claim that overweight people can't do anything about it within reason, and then pretend it's all because of genetics. Well, what happened in recent years that caused more people to be overweight? Did this evolutionary mutation just appear in the last a hundred years all the way across the extremely diverse population of the modern world? That, simply, doesn't make any sense.

I dont care if your fat...But dont you DARE give the idea to anyone else that over eating and being overweight is healthy and normal, are you trying evolve humans into a less superior organism?. Also if you fat Im fine with that but when a fat person acts like the world must revolve around them thats when I get pissed off.

A point made simply is often the best.

The problem we, as uninvolved individuals, have with this issue is not that people are overweight, but it's that false information is being spread around to defend this way of being on a health basis. We understand that people are not perfect, and we understand that not everyone is concerned with their health to the same level others are. However, if that's the case, there is no reason to go around calling people prejudice and saying that the majority of overweight people are overweight just because.

I didn't know your concern here was to see that we represent a superior race, kind of like someone else I know who felt the best thing was to weed out those from human exsistance who were imperfect. Oh you know, that guy, Hitler.

Why? Thin people act like the world revolves around them all the time. Nobody seems to have such a problem with that, or feel the need to question it.

Please do some research. Read about how many people die from yo-yo dieting each year, and end up having that called an Obesity related death, instead of what it is. The death of someone who damaged their body over a lifetime, trying to be thin when they just couldn't be that way. How about looking up all the suffering the medical experiment procedure known as Gastric Bypass has caused. It makes the body completely unable to process vitamins or other things from food that everyone needs to survive, yet that's okay for fat people because they will appear thin and therfore healthy, even if it means they're dying on the inside.

No, I mean it. I really can't see what your point is, apart from the fact that you are upset.



The paper you cited says that people are obese because they take in more calories than they burn. They use statistics to look at technological and social demographic things that cause this imbalance. Like technology making food cheaper and increased urbanization.

It does not support your statement that "most overweight people are overweight because they're unhealthy."

Study says: "Results show that rising obesity is primarily the result of consuming more calories. We estimate multivariate regression models and use simulation analysis to explore technological and sociodemographic determinants of this dietary excess. Results indicate that the increase in caloric intake is associated with technological innovations such as reduced food prices as well as changing sociodemographic factors such as increased urbanization and increased female labor force participation."

The study you referenced has no relationship with the crap you said.

I haven't gone back and reread all the posts, but it seems to me violet_yoshi said that s/he knows s/he is obese and doesn't feel bad about himself or herself. I think s/he said that s/he eats healthy and lives a healthy life and can't really control the weight any more than s/he does.

It doesn't sound like you're fine with the fact that s/he is fat. In fact, it seems as if you are outraged s/he is not full of self-loathing.

I totally agree. I think that most people who try to dysfunctionally control their weight with yo-yo-dieting, major digestive tract surgeries and other unhealthy things are just adding more trauma to their bodies.

I also agree that, once obese, it is best to eat healthy and not get into a psychological problem with your self image and self-hate. If the person feels they must lose the weight, I think it's hard to do that well when full of self-hate and despair. It's better to be eat healthy and like yourself. If you want to lose some weight in the future, you can ramp up exercise or whatever. People don't have to lose weight by attacking their bodies with unhealthy diets and surgeries.

And another thing: if you hate yourself when fat, you don't start loving yourself once thin.

Ephermerella FTW! Just so you know, I am indeed female.

I noticed that there are some real flaming bigots on this board. Not racists, but sexists and other "ists". And if you try to say that you think that something is bigoted and that it is inappropriate, it makes you a lightning rod for being attacked over your views. Whereas people seem pretty comfortable with letting the bigot/sexist/sizist/whatever air his/her views. Weird.

Good link.

Thanks, I'm used to this. However, there really does need to be an end to this type of bigotry. I find it so absurd that Aspies who tend to be people who are treated like outcasts by society, would turn and treat other outcasted people with the same prejudicial nature.

I also do understand that the majority of people by nature who have Asperger's Syndrome are males, although that in itself is a matter of controversy and issues of female Aspies not being diagnosed such and such. So I get tired of the guys on here drooling over Heather Kuzmich, and the girls acting like she's a poor pitiable creature. When she's been granted opportunities simply for being born with a body that appears as what for most people is an impossible ideal. In other words, she's been given opportunities most of us female Aspies won't have, just for being beautiful.

I hear she's so courageous for being social, and contending with the world. Heather does not contend with the same world most women do. She isn't harassed about her weight, about how she eats, or how much she exercises on a daily basis. She also isn't treated like a freak, cause it doesn't matter how she behaves I guess unless it was something really extreme like murdering people, because she's beautiful and people like to look at her.

Now while I'm sure there are people who will come here, complain I don't know Heather, and I'm making assumptions. I do know what it feels like not to live as what society would consider a beautiful woman, and I also know that it's much harder to be accepted in jobs that are male oriented unless you look like you could be the bosses' pet. I seem to be the only one who is saying, sure Heather Kuzmich has had her challenges, but they're not comparable to the challenges women who don't fit the "standard" face every day. Feeling sorry for Heather, or holding her up as an ideal does have to do with her being good looking. I don't think it's reasonable that everyone should be gushing over someone who was on a TV show for being a model, and then complain about fat people being unhealthy.

Let's say Heather became a model, let's also say someone told her she needs to loose weight. Now she's Aspie, I fathom she'd interpret that literally and go on a strict diet. Should we really be holding up being able to be involved with a industry that has a diagnoses of Anorexia as one of it's unwritten requirements? Is it really a good idea to have a role model for Aspie women, while there are few young role models out there at least that I know, be one that reflects the same old statement that you're not worth anything unless you're stick thin?

This isn't about Heather, it's about the idea that for many people for them to appear like Heather Kuzmich, they would have to starve themselves which would damage their bodies. I'm saying to accept one's body at it's genetically pre-disposed size, and yes genetics do have a real impact on how one's body will be shaped, to eat healthily and exercise without weight loss being a goal. How is that so horribly unhealthy? Is starvation or extreme dieting any healthier?

What I see more in SertraOD's posts isn't a hatred of people who are fat, even though that is the frame in which it was presented, it's a fear of food. A fear of food being contaminated or having hormones in it what have you. Some people would say that's valid, perhaps animal rights people. Okay fine that's valid, however complaining and yelling at people that they're unhealthy for being fat, and their being fat is because they eat American foods doesn't accomplish anything. There are many people who eat food from America and never get fat, how do you explain that? How can you explain people who are thin and eat and eat and never get fat, no matter what? I understand there is growing bias against them now, in reaction to the constant size bias.

How is it so unhealthy to say all bodies are beautiful, and that they should not be damaged to meet some arbitrary ideal? I heard of thin people who have tried everything to gain weight, as well as fat people who have tried everything to loose it. What reason could possibly validate the idea that they'd be better off taking extreme body damaging measures, to go against their genetics and end up more unhealthy then they started with before they tried to fight against nature?

I really didn't expect this to turn into such a long rant, lol.

It's okay. Good to get it off your chest. I can relate.

It really is surprising to come here and find one get bashed for saying that something is offensive... like everyone here fits in and doesn't know what it feels like to say something is bigoted against you and get bashed for trying to stick up for yourself.

But I don't think it's everybody. Just a subset of group-thinkers who are trying to do social clique things here instead of focus on issues. Wherever you go there are people trying to form social cliques and impose groupthink.

Look, I'm thin and athletic, but after my first trauma, I was on sedatives for several years. I gained 40 pounds and it took a few years for me to lose it. And I never really did lose it until I got off the sedatives and became more physically active again. So I suppose that the sedatives made me temporarily like someone who is born with being able to gain weight easily -- it was a disadvantage for me in my attempts to lose weight. It was very tough and I wasn't really healthy the whole time I was trying to lose weight. Now that I'm back to my regular size, I think that people who are constantly on a yo-yo diet and hurting themselves to lose weight may be doing more damage than they are helping themselves. I was mainly able to drop the weight when I began doing a lot of sports again. But becoming an athlete is not an option for a lot of people, due to disabilities or circumstances. IMO it's kind of sick (and ignorant) to go around telling obese people that they should feel ashamed of themselves, etc.

Good luck sticking up for yourself and asserting your self-love and self esteem. I hope you don't have too much of a hard time with that.

I think this means you're screwed, NQ.

About obesity topic

When I was a kid in the 60's, in grade four, in a class of 40 kids there would only be one overweight child. Unfortunately, this child would be harrassed.

When my two younger kids were in the same grade, out of 25 kids there would be at least eight kids who were considered overweight.

Reasons for the change:

Kids do not play outside as much, due to safety and because of TV and computers.

Abundance of fast food and readily available snacks, and those eaten in front of the TV and computer.

Less home cooked meals, which satisfy hunger. People who eat alone tend to eat more. Fast food does not fill up like home cooking.

People eat because of boredom. We have forgotten what real appetite feels like, after a full day of work.

I eat three meals a day. I used to eat more often because "experts" said this is a more "human" way of consuming nutrients. Well, this does not work for me (Perhaps for diabetics it is the best way). Three satisfying meals and a total calorie input of 1500-1800 calories based on my age, size and activity level is good. I avoid in between snacks (unless it is a beverage or fruit) and nothing after dinner, unless it is a cup of decaf tea or coffee. At my age (54) I have no metabolic disorders or circulatory issues. Perhaps I am just lucky, but I think it is because I have tried to be sensible about my diet.

I cannot say I have never had food issues but not for some time. I took a good, long look at my lifestyle and made good changes in order to enable me to live a fairly healthy life. It appears to work, so I am happy.

I hope others can come to terms with their food issues. This is serious business.

There definitely IS an obesity epidemic. But I think that we tend to focus too much on individual behavior and not on the problems that are more systematic in our society (in America).

I think that we have serious problems with our food supply, both in terms of regulating food products safely, what standards are applied to what is called "food" by USDA and FDA standards, and corporate programming of America's food culture. It's not hard to look across society and see we have wide-scale dislocations in our health care system and our healthy living ideals. I think it's not helpful to blame individual people for not getting surgeries and doing other superficial, prophylactic things to control their weight, given how dysfunctional and unhealthy America's food scene is.

A study last week reported 40 percent of the average American family's budget goes to fast food. So fast food is essentially the average American diet.

When you go beyond fast food to see what is happening in American kitchens, most of that looks like home-cooked fast food. I look at what other people buy in the grocery store, and if you sorted out what I consider to be "real food" (whole grains, vegetable and simple meats and cheeses, etc) from the "junk food" (sodas, crackers, cookies, breakfast cereal, "granola bars", hamburger helper, macaroni and cheese, ketchup, bottled cheese whiz, hot dogs, white bread, etc), there are maybe 3-5 things I might buy out of their weeks shopping. It's hard to walk into an American grocery store and not come out loaded with stuff that will in the long run make you gain weight and cause a lot of disease.

The USDA and FDA are mostly staffed with corporate food industry insiders... they rubber stamp any kind of preservative-laced, chemically engineered, artificially flavored thing that was made from stuff that once came from a farm as "food", even if it has only nominal nutritional value. The factory farms are producing meats, fruits and vegetables that are such flavorless, bland, pale and flabby versions of what they would be if naturally grown, that it's hard to eat them without dumping a lot of ketchup or mayonnaise or other chemical food dressing on top of them.

I don't think it is the individual person, on a case by case basis that causes the obesity epidemic, so much as the whole perverted corporate food culture in America. How the government lies to us about what constitutes "food", how we are "taught" how to eat via commercials made by processed-food marketers, how we are constantly bombarded with a culture that spews food misinformation, and how we are surrounded by sodas and junk food wherever we go. I mean, soda and soft drinks are just not food. Hawaiian punch is not a food. Why are Americans programmed to think that what they drink to satisfy their thirst has to be flavored and filled with sugar? You could sit around eating caviar each week, for what some people spend on sodas and other soft drinks -- none of which have any place in a healthy diet. Water is what people are supposed to drink when they are thirsty.

IMO, America is way off track in its food culture. It's pretty obvious, too, if you study nutrition or learn the cuisines of other countries. I think that those people who are yelling at individual people for causing the obesity epidemic are doing so because of some personal problem or prejudice, not because they have any rational basis for their attacks.

BTW, I found some courses on ITunesU about nutrition. They are recorded lectures from U.C. Berkeley college courses downloadable for free. There is also a less scientific public service podcast for nutrition from Clemson University. The breadcrumbs are below:

iTunesU > Clemson University > Food Science & Human Nutrition > Nutrition Diet & Health Nutrition Outreach podcasts
iTunesU > UC Berkeley > Nutritional Science & Toxicology > Nutritional Sciences & Toxicology 10: Intro to Human Nutrition Spring 2007
iTunesU > UC Berkeley > Nutritional Science & Toxicology > Nutritional Science & Toxicology 103: Nutrient Function & Metabolism Fall 2007
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Seems like I've been doing that for most of my life.