I want to steal some Astrology geeks

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I think the unlearned are more likely to be exclusive about starsigns. Knowing that a person = their whole chart makes it pretty impossible to exclude anyone based on a Sun Sign. Every sign is awesome imo, but individual people are at different stages of maturity with those traits. No matter what real astrology comes down to the maturity of the person in question, and how they have handled their lives in order to grow through their own struggles. Even synastry (relationship stuff) means little if one person hasn't even taken advantage of their time to grow as a person and the other has, it only points to what naturally will help or harm them, then it's up to those people to work it out.

Vig, you continue to baffle me: "the difference being it seems a lot less crazy to people because it is often erroneously associated with astronomy" How? I don't know what kinds of people you meet on the street. Oh right, the other 80% of this planet who aren't all that bright. Now it makes sense why you associate so many weird ideas with astrology, unless you're just making them up.

Please don't forget that, guys, we're talking to the smarter people right now. Try forget what the other idiots have told you, cos it probably doesn't apply. I wouldn't run into the religion forum treating those aspies like the everyday moron that tries to preach at me on the street or w/e, I would be interested in hearing their well thought out ideas. But that's me... I think about stuff like that. I actually value my aspieness and the aspieness of others quite highly.

I think NobelCynic is naive to think forum called Politics, Philosophy & Religion will not involve argument. But I imagine he would prefer it if everyone was a yes man to his ideas.
I do regret starting this dialogue with 'Astrology = Fake', perhaps I should have given more background on why I think that, though I hardly think the rest of my replies were rash, considering I didn't make any attempt to patronize you, condescend to you, or label you. In fact I tried many times to take the ad hominem you chose to pursue out of this discussion, to no avail. You and NobelCynic do us all a disservice by speaking so, and a disservice to your own platform. I'm glad you found at least one other astrology geek though.



That is a good point. Actually homeopathy does lead to harm in some cases. Tarot/Astrology are better classified as arts, I suppose. A lot of the symbolism is useful or even beautiful in that respect



Me too. I actually wasn't aware they did that in Hindu society, that is interesting (in a sad way, lol). Does their ancient caste system also have to do with astrology?

I don't see why an astronomer questioning the validity of astrology is baffling

If it's ok I would like to go back to the OP and the topic
I was always interested in astrology a bit and found it pretty fascinating but I'm really just an amateur. However I just tried to create my natal/birth chart (on internet) and I find it quite hard to read with my little knowledge.
Anyway my sun is in Aquarius, my Midheaven is Virgo and ascendant is Scorpio. I really enjoyed reading the analysis on it. Somehow I feel still lacking some knowledge (well a lot). Maybe you could advise some website or some literature that could help me get a better understanding of this?

Don't let me stop you!

I can see why as an astronomer one might be curious of the strange practices existing in the same realm of interest, but what I refer to here is your particular ideas of what astrology is and means. As stated above. I don't know how astrology could be associated with astronomy in any way besides that they both involve planetary bodies, and thus I repeat, I don't know what kinds of people you are meeting! My goodness! You need to pay less attention to those frighteningly stupid people that surround us, they tend to make little sense when left to their own devices, and frankly they currently are mostly left to their own devices!

Haven't you yet figured out the vast gap between the general population, average intelligence, and even what they think is high intelligence, and us?

I only said you were behaving ignorantly earlier because you consistently appear ignorant on the subject at hand. It's not a personal attack, why should you care about my special interest like I do? It's just annoying when you try to partake in such a disruptive way with that lack. You are subject to both the idea of pop-astrology and goodness knows what else that you seem to be bringing into the discussion, without even the first understanding of what I'm speaking of, what it means to me, and my personal values regarding the practice of my special interest--which by the way is going to be much closer to what other astrology-aspies are going to think compared to what you think you know.

Look, regardless of whether its 'pop astrology' or whatever sort of astrology you believe in, I feel it encourages uncritical thinking. It would take me a long time to write out every reason why I feel it is a disservice to knowledge, but Phil Plait, an astronomer/writer sums it up pretty well in his blog, Bad Astronomy. I don't see why disagreeing with astrology = ignorant of astrology, that is basically a syllogism. I am interested in astronomy, cosmology, astrophysics, planetary science- things that can be measured, or observed. I actually pay no attention to stupid people.

But as to the association, that is exactly the problem: they both refer to real planetary/solar bodies, and yet only one of them is making statements grounded in fact- though most people find astronomy boring and unsatisfying. I'm sorry you feel I'm disruptive. I'm actually a lot nicer then many of the PPR regulars in my interactions. My second post to you, where I asked you about your opinion on Ophiuchus- I take it you got the impression I was being snide, or something, but I was really just trying to defuse this whole thing by asking you your opinion on something I am curious about, because I really don't want any hard feelings between us. So I'm really sorry if you think I'm a big jerkface now
Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy: Misconceptions: Astrology (<-- Link)

The general population cannot fathom what *I* do either. Both are too complex for them. I have always loved astronomy, even if I may not be as well versed in it as I am in this.

Astrology is not a science and it doesn't claim to be. I know it is based on planets and other roaming chunks of mass but it is of course an art of metaphor. Please don't be mad at it just because it uses the same objects of interest.

I didn't think you were being snide with your Ophiuchus question. It's a stupid theory that I've been asked about a lot so I just quoted Moog's totally relevant response. There are idiots in every field, man. With that in mind: what's Pluto?

I actually support the reclassification as a dwarf planet. It doesn't seem to downgrade it, in my opinion, because the end result was several other objects (Ceres, Eris, Haumea, Makemake) ended up getting more attention. I feel dwarf planets are some of the most interesting objects in the solar system

I don't think he said there should never be arguments.

What I would challenge (and I imagine that NC would) is this culture that exists in PPR where every thread is an argument by default. It makes any use of that board completely useless, except by a small clique of argumentative personalities who completely dominate the place with their combative natures.

I was going to write a lot more, but since the conversation seems to have become more civil, so I shall bite my tongue in the interests of maintaining that.

I'm not that combative compared to some people there. I actually try and be nice to people, especially my honorable opponents (when they're honorable )
I don't know though, I don't find the PPR that hostile, but I guess I have a rather unique world view... Sun Tzu based and all
I wouldn't have it any other way

Good point, Vig. One I might even incorporate into my own practice (that of dwarf planets.) Considering Pluto is already just one of a few generational influences it might be worth looking into that classification deeper.

I will totally get back to this thread properly, soon. Nothing like an argument to make me stop what I really should be doing irl.

What about the close to 2,000 extrasolar planets discovered in the past 20 years?
Most aren't named, but I can think of one off hand - Bellerophon, which is a giant gas planet orbiting 51 Pegasi

Wobbly lol... that's a great way to put "swinging between extremes." Yeah, I have some trouble with mine. Even weirder is the connection between that and my Moon in Aries. Get it? Both planets in each other's domains, and both signs cardinal I might add. Watery-fiery bursts ft..w?

If you say so

Leo the lion.

That's all I know about it though.